Do I Pass?

[Simon]

One thing that does bug me and I KNOW it is a part of transitioning for most people is asking each other "do I pass". You know if you pass. The cis gendered world reminds you of that either way each and every time you step out of the door. Don't ask me because I'll never put you down about it and if you don't I am not going to tell you. You already know and shouldn't be beating yourself up over it.

I understand questions like "Is my chest flat in this binder" or "Does this wig look good on me" things of that specific nature but why ask a question that probably will make you feel so much worse about yourself if honestly answered...when you already know the answer?

[Nero]

Good question.

[Celery Stalk]

One thing that does bug me and I KNOW it is a part of transitioning for most people is asking each other "do I pass". You know if you pass. The cis gendered world reminds you of that either way each and every time you step out of the door. Don't ask me because I'll never put you down about it and if you don't I am not going to tell you. You already know and shouldn't be beating yourself up over it.

I understand questions like "Is my chest flat in this binder" or "Does this wig look good on me" things of that specific nature but why ask a question that probably will make you feel so much worse about yourself if honestly answered...when you already know the answer?

Although you make a fair point, sometimes, I honestly don't know if I "pass". Despite having a pretty solid and healthy emotional/mental state and being ignored in the cisworld (best compliment ever, imo), that internal body-recognition neurology still sometimes sends me some mixed messages. I'm comfortable with myself enough that I don't bother asking people when I feel out of sorts, but I can certainly understand asking the question. As a side note, I long ago realized the power of exercise and I feel infinitely more confident when I'm top of my physical health.

[Simon]

Although you make a fair point, sometimes, I honestly don't know if I "pass".

Call me ignorant but I don't see how that is a possibility if you are interactive with cis gendered strangers in the world. I could go to any restaurant right now, have a seat, and 9 times out of 10 the waiter/waitress is going to walk up and say "can I get you a drink, sir". That is just an example of course but gender is played out daily in most people's lives.

My ultimate test of if I passed or not was the public restroom. Basically what i am saying is if you get "bud, buddy, or sir" most of the time you pass as male. If you're getting "darling, sweetie, or lady" then you pass as female. If people ignore you, look at you strange, or stumble on pronouns around you CONSTANTLY (been there/done that) then there is a distinct possibility that you are androgynous or do not pass.

[Celery Stalk]

Call me ignorant but I don't see how that is a possibility if you are interactive with cis gendered strangers in the world. I could go to any restaurant right now, have a seat, and 9 times out of 10 the waiter/waitress is going to walk up and say "can I get you a drink, sir". That is just an example of course but gender is played out daily in most people's lives.

My ultimate test of if I passed or not was the public restroom. Basically what i am saying is if you get "bud, buddy, or sir" most of the time you pass as male. If you're getting "darling, sweetie, or lady" then you pass as female. If people ignore you, look at you strange, or stumble on pronouns around you CONSTANTLY (been there/done that) then there is a distinct possibility that you are androgynous or do not pass.

What you describe is my experience, and a source of comfort. But relying on a common experience to ease my mind is a conscious event. I still have residual body-dysphoria rearing its ugly head from time to time, that's an unconscious event that literally warps my image in the mirror. I think it'll fade with time, as I give it little credence now.

All I'm saying is, i think many questions about passing are attempts to quiet that cynical voice in our heads.

[Simon]

All I'm saying is, i think many questions about passing are attempts to quiet that cynical voice in our heads.

Ok, I understand your point. It isn't so much as how others see you than it is about how you see yourself is why you would ask. I understand the point you're making but I don't understand the reasoning behind it. It reminds me of seeing good looking girls (who obviously know they are hot from the 1,000 pictures of themselves on their facebook walls) who down play themselves to fish for compliments.

[Simon]

I don't think it is the best environment for an honest opinion though because people want to be positive and a lot of people in the trans community have either become a little gender blind or a little extra-sensitive to gender cues. So I dunno :/

Fully in agreement with this statement.

[Shang]

I don't think it is the best environment for an honest opinion though because people want to be positive and a lot of people in the trans community have either become a little gender blind or a little extra-sensitive to gender cues. So I dunno :/

I agree fully.  A lot of people are over-sensitive and say a person can't pass when the person can.   People like to nitpick and say "oh, your eyebrows are too thin" or "your eyebrows are too thick" or "brow is just a bit too noticeable", etc., when those things generally don't mean a thing when it comes to passing.   I think I've personally mentioned someone's eyebrows once, but not because it was a hindrance to passing, just that it might be [generally in the context of those within the community]. 

Personally, I try to abstain from asking if I pass here except for the rare occasion where I'm curious.  However, this place is the only place where people have seen my picture and say I don't pass/am on the edge of passing.  Everywhere else people have said I've passed and not all of those people are part of the LGBT community.

I do post occasionally because it's reassurance for me since I have major confidence issues with myself and I would like to hear that I have the potential of passing.  I don't necessarily believe I pass even when people tell me I do.  I don't interact with outside strangers dressed as male because of where I live so I don't get that feed back.

[insideontheoutside]

I've definitely asked the question, 'Why DON'T I pass". I think that's a question that gets better answers. I've posted pics on here where people say I pass just fine, and other pics where they say I don't. Lately it's been, "Do I 'pass' as androgynous and if so, more male or more female?" I'm pretty much narrowed it down to certain facial features and the lack of noticeable facial hair. But since I do get gendered as male sometimes it's still a bit of a crap shoot for me. Honestly, I get more people in public not using any male or female pronouns, etc. with me and that's just fine because that leads me to believe they really aren't sure so they don't say anything. I'm fine with that. I hate being called "ma'am" so really that's what I'm trying to avoid ... the dreaded ma'am.

I think a lot of people are super insecure/have no confidence because they don't pass (and know so because of the reactions they get in public) so they post up pics to try to get tips on how to pass better. I also agree that other trans people are going to be hyper critical. So not always the best litmus test on passing or not passing.

I realize that passing is kind of the whole point of transition if you want to be seen exclusively as either male or female and that not passing can lead to problems (everything from ID to restroom problems or worse) and even continued dysphoria, etc. so it's really important to a lot of people.

[Simon]

I realize that passing is kind of the whole point of transition if you want to be seen exclusively as either male or female and that not passing can lead to problems (everything from ID to restroom problems or worse) and even continued dysphoria, etc. so it's really important to a lot of people.

I'm not trying to say passing isn't important or people shouldn't strive to match their outsides to what is within. I totally get that. I don't think it would be possible to be trans and not get that.

I think if any of us share a bond (besides just being trans) is that we understand what it is like to loathe our skin. I'm sure most of us (myself included) have cried ourselves to sleep at night over some aspect of our gender identity. I think maybe that is why it bothers me to even be put in the position of judging someone's appearance. I imagine everyone telling someone who is probably already fragile to begin with that their efforts aren't good enough. Being mis-gendered by the cis world is hard enough as it is for a lot of people. I kinda feel in between wanting to tell them the truth and wanting to protect them (if that makes sense).

Maybe it depends on your location if you get gender based comments directed at you on a regular basis. I live in the rural southern United States. People here are very precise in how they treat you based on your gender. That is probably why I assume most people should know without asking if they pass or not.

As corny as it sounds, I don't ever want to upset anyone. Trans people are MY people. If you're trans it doesn't matter if I've known you a day, a year, or just online...I love you (sounds strange but it comes from a place of good intentions, lol). Sometimes I just see people get so down on themselves and I just want to scoop them up, hug them, and tell them that it is going to be ok. I'm just a big teddy bear...*sniffle*, lol.

[insideontheoutside]

I'm not trying to say passing isn't important or people shouldn't strive to match their outsides to what is within. I totally get that. I don't think it would be possible to be trans and not get that.

I think if any of us share a bond (besides just being trans) is that we understand what it is like to loathe our skin. I'm sure most of us (myself included) have cried ourselves to sleep at night over some aspect of our gender identity. I think maybe that is why it bothers me to even be put in the position of judging someone's appearance. I imagine everyone telling someone who is probably already fragile to begin with that their efforts aren't good enough. Being mis-gendered by the cis world is hard enough as it is for a lot of people. I kinda feel in between wanting to tell them the truth and wanting to protect them (if that makes sense).

Maybe it depends on your location if you get gender based comments directed at you on a regular basis. I live in the rural southern United States. People here are very precise in how they treat you based on your gender. That is probably why I assume most people should know without asking if they pass or not.

As corny as it sounds, I don't ever want to upset anyone. Trans people are MY people. If you're trans it doesn't matter if I've known you a day, a year, or just online...I love you (sounds strange but it comes from a place of good intentions, lol). Sometimes I just see people get so down on themselves and I just want to scoop them up, hug them, and tell them that it is going to be ok. I'm just a big teddy bear...*sniffle*, lol.

Yeah I totally wasn't implying that you thought it wasn't important or anything. That was just my own thought on why people post. Sometimes to me it seems they're striving so hard that they'll take any little bit (like, "Oh your eyebrows pass" and they think, "oh yea!" you know?) as a boost. So maybe it's actually the opposite unless someone said, "no sorry you don't pass at all" and have offered zero constructive criticism (which I have seen on here but often time other people jump in and DO offer some sort of constructive comments).

I'm totally one of those "helper" type of people so I definitely get where you're coming from when you see people get so down on themselves. Part of the reason why I keep coming here is to just offer my experiences and insight and perspective in a way to help others out. Sometimes I need the help myself too haha. I'm pretty empathic in general and when people are bummed it makes me bummed as well and makes me want to make it better somehow. I feel like I'm a bit of survivor myself in that I've lived through a whole bunch of crappy life experiences that if I can share what I've learned through all that with others who may be facing the same thing, it's all worth it, you know?

[eli77]

Call me ignorant but I don't see how that is a possibility if you are interactive with cis gendered strangers in the world. I could go to any restaurant right now, have a seat, and 9 times out of 10 the waiter/waitress is going to walk up and say "can I get you a drink, sir". That is just an example of course but gender is played out daily in most people's lives.

Okay... there is a fairly significant difference here between trans guys and girls. For guys, people are going to read you as a cis male or a cis female. Outside of a queer space the chance that anyone will ever read you as a trans male is remote at most.

For trans girls, it's very different. Assuming your presentation is gender-normative, and like 99.99% of trans girls presentations are, people are going to read you as either a trans girl or a cis girl. And the reaction to reading you as a trans girl can be various - you might get negative comments or certain looks... or you might not, and there is no guarantee that you will be misgendered, regardless of whether you are passing.

So for the girls... no it isn't always going to be clear from people's reactions if you are passing or not. That's why there are a lot of threads about acceptance versus passing on the trans woman side. For guys it is much more straight forward. If you fail to pass, you get read as a butch girl and will be misgendered. There isn't any "acceptance" category.

[Beth Andrea]

Agreed..."Do I pass?" is about the same as when someone asks, "Do these pants make me look fat?"

*quickly grabs a Twix bar,  takes a bite*

Or the cliche, "If you have to ask...you can't afford it."

[PixieBoy]

I used to ask this a lot but nowadays I just can't be bothered. I can't wear my binder because it makes my ribs hurt too much, so there is pretty much nothing I can do to make myself pass. I'm seen as a butch girl no matter what I do, it seems. When people on here have told me I pass, I've been called a girl by strangers in the street. When people on here have told me I don't pass, people call me a boy. I just don't know what to make of it, and others don't really know what I am, either. Mostly I'm a butch girl in their eyes, sometimes so androgynous they have to ask, a "he... she... uh... that person over there" until they hear my voice.

[Chaos]

Should a person be forced to be subjected to being called the gender they do not identify with? for some who have no issues with being called either one,yes this will work for you but those who honestly can not even bare the thought of being know as their birth gender,this is a BAD move.it is best to ask first,a close friend and get help so they can go outside with confidence.

[Stephe]

I agree fully.  A lot of people are over-sensitive and say a person can't pass when the person can.

Totally agree. These same people could be shown pictures of natal female/males and explain why they don't pass. As the OP said, if you are out in public and people gender you correctly, you are passing.

I honestly feel the "acceptance" thing is mostly nonsense as well. Most people aren't that nice and many would go out of their way to insult people if they can get away with it. I also don't believe, in my case as a MTF, that all women would be accepting of a "man" in the women's bathroom either. I have never had -issue one- with this. If I ask for a restroom key I am always handed/directed to the women's. And a couple of times I have accidentally started to walk into the mens dressing rooms and been stopped, "Excuse me ma'am, the women's area is over here". Those people weren't "being nice".

But then here I have had people say (without my asking) "I questioned looking at your picture that you can pass". I don't need to have the approval of a hypercritical trans message board to know if I pass as a woman or not. So honestly, asking on a trans forum if you pass or not isn't something I would bother with.