Estradiol, then spiro

[modernowl]

Hi all, so I'm brand new to posting here.

I'm a 30-year-old MTF. I started HRT in November. My care provider at the University of Minnesota started me off on just estradiol. I use a patch rather than pills, just to be on the safe side because I'm a Type 1 diabetic as well. But she started me on the patch, and on the highest dosage available in a single patch. ... On Thursday, I'm going in for a checkup. I expect my E dose will be increased, and that's the day I expect to start spiro as well.

So far, though, I haven't noticed much of anything in terms of change. I am lucky to have a very feminine body already; I've got sort of the hourglass figure, with wider hips and I can pretty much fill an A cup already. But that all existed before I started. Now, it's only been about six weeks, so of course I understand it takes longer than that. But I've read about so many people experiencing such differences so quickly. So I'm wondering if perhaps it's because I haven't been on spiro yet, and the E is fighting with the T in my body. A number of my MTF friends say that the spiro really made the difference for them. Others, though, who started on spiro first and then added estradiol later say that when they got the E things really took off. (And it sounds like a lot of people here started spiro and then added estradiol rather than the other way around.) So perhaps it's just that things don't change that much until you've got both. ... The only thing I've noticed with the estradiol is that I feel a bit calmer, and also I've had what can only be described as some growing pains in my legs and knees, and I feel a little like I've got restless-leg syndrome, like I want to stretch all the time.

I dunno. Thoughts on this? Like I said, I'm lucky enough to be gendered female already most of the time, because I've got that shape and I have rather fine, feminine features already. But it would be nice to see some changes more in that direction. Perhaps I'm just being impatient?

Obviously, I'll bring all of this up with my doctor on Thursday, and hopefully we'll be increasing dosages and everything. But I'm just curious about what sort of experiences others have had (especially others around my age ... late 20s to early 30s).

Thanks in advance.

Addie

[breezy]

Hi Addie, I'm new to all of this too. I started with a patch last June and Spiro in October. Dosage is different for each person I'm sure but mine gets my T levels down to just a single digit. You can't erase it entirely as your body needs a certain balance. I'm 52 and don't have that figure you speak of but I've had good results so far as my breasts go. Take your tablets afternoon before 6pm, otherwise you'll be up in the night. The reason is that Spiro is a diuretic and will make you pee alot after an hour or so. I try and drink plenty of liquids to keep my body in balance. I haven't noticed any other side effects except maybe that craving I have for pickles  . Actually, I'm not sure that is related. Anyway, I wish you the best. Don't be afraid to ask questions during your visit. Bye for now, Bree 

[Devlyn]

TOS Rule #8 prohibits posting dosages. Thank you, hugs, Devlyn

[Ms. OBrien CVT]

Hi modernowl,

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Janet 

[Jamie D]

Hi Addie, and Bree too!

I would not expect to see much change on low doses to begin with.  I too was started on a patch (I have type II diabetes) at probably a lower dose than you (indeed, the lowest single patch dosage).  The program was to build up slowly over time.

Be patient.  Doctors tend to be a bit conservative at first to see how you react to the new medications.  What you have written is not at all out of the normal.

The reason is that Spiro is a diuretic and will make you pee alot after an hour or so. I try and drink plenty of liquids to keep my body in balance. I haven't noticed any other side effects except maybe that craving I have for pickles  .

Spirolactone tends to deplete sodium and spare potassium.  Hence your craving for pickles.  That, or you're pregnant. 

[modernowl]

Hi all, first of all, thanks for the note about dosages. I didn't realize about the restriction (in the guidelines, that's not quite clear). I would never advocate for self-medication in any form.

I'm not exactly at a low dose of E, though. But like I said, what I'm hoping for is that when the spiro lowers my T levels, then the E will be able to really do its thing. ... I definitely can be patient. I just want some reassurance that I'm on the right track. And I was curious if anyone had been in my situation where they noticed more changes once they started spiro versus being just on estradiol.

Thanks for the welcome.

[breezy]

My apologies reference the doses and the rules. I'm still a bit new at this, I'll read them again. Thanks for the note on my cravings, I was wondering what that was all about.

[Misato]

I went Spiro first in October, then E route in late December.  I noticed the Spiro right away, took out my aggression and impatience lickity split.  E has been subtle.  No physical changes have happened that I'm sure of yet.  My skin seems different but I think that's because I've taken up a rigorous moisturizing regimen.

Guess I'd be remiss if I didn't add...

Go Gophers!

[Jamie D]

I went Spiro first in October, then E route in late December.  I noticed the Spiro right away, took out my aggression and impatience lickity split.  E has been subtle.  No physical changes have happened that I'm sure of yet.  My skin seems different but I think that's because I've taken up a rigorous moisturizing regimen.

Guess I'd be remiss if I didn't add...

Go Gophers!

Paige, we have several of our non-binary, male-bodied members, who have reported an immediate peace of mind once they began anti-androgens.  Everybody is different, but the effect is not unheard of.

[Misato]

Paige, we have several of our non-binary, male-bodied members, who have reported an immediate peace of mind once they began anti-androgens.  Everybody is different, but the effect is not unheard of.

I know. . I think I recalled seeing the peace of mind reports in other threads.  I just didn't beleive it until it happened to me!  The same might have happened had I started E first.  Releif from being on the way type thing instead of something chemical.

I know of someone who went E first then Spiro where there was an emotional response, as in being touched by events deeper, noticed about a week in.  No word on when the physical changes began.  They sure came though!

And modernowl I'd say you're on a very good track.

[Flan]

Since the kidneys are at risk with spiro, the other anti-androgen option is an orchiectomy. The urology clinic at the U requires only one letter of recommendation which can probably be bypassed if you're seeing PHS and since it could be considered medically necessary (to prevent side effects of spiro) there's a good chance insurance will cover.

[modernowl]

I definitely would like to pursue an orchiectomy at a later date. I'm not necessarily concerned about full bottom surgery, but definitely an orchiectomy. Some of that will depend on whether I can get my insurance to cover it, yes. ... For now, though, I just really want to see what the spiro can do for me. I am really hoping that I see some more significant change once I'm on both E and spiro.