If Being LBGT was a Choice Would that Make it Wrong?

[Incarnadine]

By using the word "wrong," you're utilizing a moral standard.  "Right" and "wrong" are moral terms.  Therefore whether or not it is "wrong" is defined by your moral standard. 

By defining your moral standard, you'll have your answer.

[gennee]

I discovered that I was transgender nearly eight years ago. I always felt different so when
the light was turned on in my mind, it felt natural to me. Transgender is who I am. I had a choice
whether or not I wanted to accept myself. After several weeks, I do so. I have never looked back.

While I'm not going to transition, I know that I'm a transgender woman in my own mind. That no one can
change. Each person is different. I support the folks who do transition.     

[seebs]

Just wondering what you all think. For a lot of campaigns in favor of the LGBT community one of the most popular slogans is "Its Not A Choice" -- to be Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, or Trans. But for me that raises the question: What if it was a choice for some people? Would that automatically make it immoral to be this way?

Not automatically, no. The general rule, though, is that it can only be immoral to do something if it is subject to volition or choice; other traits can be desireable or undesireable, but they can't be moral or immoral.

[suzifrommd]

Great question, DrillQuip. I was busy all day yesterday so I missed the whole discussion. I hope I'm allowed to come late to the party with some thoughts.

Lets talk about the LGB part. It is of course not wrong to choose to be intimate and emotionally close to whomever you feel that way toward. Separating consenting adults from the people they love is barbaric.

OK, now let's talk about the "T" part. If Transgender were merely deciding to live as a gender that differs from one's birth sex, nothing wrong with that either. No one's being hurt. People are living as the gender identity they are most comfortable with.

But transgender is more than that.

Transgender is a physical condition whose origin is still only partially understood. What we agree upon is that it can have severe psychological consequences, including depression and suicide (we do all agree on that, right?)

For that reason, we don't just ask for acceptance to live as our true gender. We also ask that many of the expenses incurred be treated as medical expenses. Because our condition can be so devastating we ask (rightly IMO) that our therapy, endo visits, prescriptions, etc. be covered by insurance. We ask that things that aren't insured, such as gender surgery, speech therapy, electrolosys, etc., be deducted from our taxes the same way other non-covered medical expenses are.

This complicates things.

I would say that asking insurance to cover these expenses and to treat them as non-elective WOULD be wrong if it were done just for self-fulfillment and not to correct an incurable condition that carried serious consequences.

[Edge]

For LGB (and all the others), I fail to see how love isn't, well, the same as any other love.

For trans* people, I think it's more complicated. I don't think it's wrong. I just think that it's more complicated and I am not qualified to answer since I have no idea what it would be like to choose. I do know that I want people to know that it's not a choice for me because, when they think it's a choice, they think I'm a girl. That's just personal though.

[Tessa James]

Friends,
When we talk about what is choice and what we are born with it seems to me that it is our behavior that contains elements of choice.  As much as I have tried to repress thinking about TG/TS the thoughts and dreams remain.  I chose to continue life as something like a man and waited decades to finally start this transition to something closer to female.  I don't know where exactly this trip will take me but it is clear for many of us that the pain of lying and hiding and shame is unhealthy.  It is moral and right to address pain and suffering with counseling and other treatment--HRT, SRS.  Being personally responsible for initiating our health care is simply moral and right.  Our culture then contains all sorts of ethical dilemmas as even "doing no harm" can be challenging.  Have you had a friend or family member say "what you are doing is hurting me"?  Will that make transitioning wrong for you?   Principles of ethical behavior are not as clear or as simple as right and wrong.   a polarized and binary choice represent very limited perspectives.  Let us please expand on our ability to create that loving embrace of diversity and freethinking.  The origins of sexuality and gender may be debated, discussed and studied forever.  We can start throwing those shackles off today.

[Cassandra Hyacinth]

This, IMO, is one of several main failings of the mainstream LGBT movement.

Yes, it isn't a choice - that much should be obvious. But the whole sentiment reeks of defensiveness. "Oh, I'm gay, but it's not my fault, so don't blame me for it!" I mean, I'll admit that I used to think that way for a long time too, but I really think the argument needs to shift from "It's not a choice, don't blame me" to "Does it really matter why I am how I am?"

Consequently, stuff like "Born This Way", which I used to like a lot, has started to leave a bit of a sour taste in my mouth. While clearly done with good intentions, there's still defensiveness permeating the whole thing. And as long as there's defensiveness, there will still be feelings of "Oh, why are they being so defensive? It's because they know it's shameful and are just afraid to say so!"

I don't know, it's just frustrating to constantly be treated as a footnote by society, and have mainstream campaigns ostensibly seeking liberation only helping to reinforce that.

[Shawn Sunshine]

Consequently, stuff like "Born This Way", which I used to like a lot, has started to leave a bit of a sour taste in my mouth.

Lady Gaga will be sad that you no longer like her song 

[peky]

what if..what if...

what if Hitler won the war...or Jesus was not crucified...

It seems to me just a futile mental masturbation...IMOHO that is