Pregnancy!

[jack flash]

Dear Jack & Seeb,

Thinking on my feet. I can't remember Seeb's commitment to transitioning. If you are agreeable and Seeb transitioned as well as yourself, most of your initial major society issues are answered. The child has a Mother and a Father. No problem.

no, seebs is p much nongendered. and i'm not really worried about people being upset about our kid having two daddies or whatever. my concerns about society are more along the lines of -- when you're pregnant, or you're minding a child and apparently female, people only relate to you as a mother. i'm afraid it's going to be an unending barrage of misgendering.

i'm non-op and have trouble passing, is the thing. my forward cannon array is too big to comfortably bind, and there's absolutely no way if it's swole up from pregnancy. the kind of misgendering i deal with daily -- people calling me 'ma'am' in stores and whatnot -- only bothers me a little. but i saw how when my sister-in-law was pregnant no one ever talked to her about anything else, like her womanhood was her only attribute, and i'm scared that would stress me out enough to be unhealthy.

i wonder how i'd go about finding a doctor who's knowlegable about both gender and pregnancy...

[Catherine Sarah]

i wonder how i'd go about finding a doctor who's knowlegable about both gender and pregnancy...

Drs. Marci Bowers in SF and Christine McGinn, PA

http://www.marcibowers.com/grs/gender.html

http://drchristinemcginn.com/

Huggs
Catherine

[seebs]

I suspect the question was intended not as "what is the name of a doctor", but "what is the procedure for finding a doctor" -- ideally a local one, for instance (we're in MN).

[Catherine Sarah]

I suspect the question was intended not as "what is the name of a doctor", but "what is the procedure for finding a doctor" -- ideally a local one, for instance (we're in MN).

Sorry, not sure of your exact geography, as I'm on the other side of the "pond"

Top of this page is a link to "Main Page"
Go to Healthcare > Health Service (General Practice)
or
Therapists and Counselors

You should find someone more local, perhaps.

Huggs
Catherine

[Rita]

I feel the same way,   as do many on this forum.  My instincts want to have a child but from me,  I want it to come from my body and sperm banks don't count for me.  I want to feel it inside of me kicking and growing and living ^.^ and the beautiful miracle when he or she is born.

Here I sit in a male shell, wishing I could get knocked up, pregnant, made to suffer 9 months of all manner of nuisances, the stretch marks the wardrobe hassles. morning sickness and weird cravings.

Meanwhile ordinary females likely would think I must be frigging insane. Oh he's insane, don't get too close it might be contagious.

Meanwhile, well I know what HE feels like while he's doing his guy thing, as I am stuck in the back row unable to really leave or anything. And it's annoying. I can feel his thoughts. Guys, they have it so easy. Sex is just play time. Grunting sweating moment of pleasure and they are out of the picture.

But I feel such overwhelming envy for all I can never have. I feel ripped off.
And because I can't really 'go away' when he is around, I also suffer the feelings he has. Because he feels like a failure as a guy due to disability.

I do remember one thing though prior to having our son. And it is worth saying. We debated briefly, about the wisdom of having a child when I had just been told I was disabled with fybromyalgia and my future was not going to be very fun. We decided, well we were not going to wait for some magical moment when we could afford kids. There is no magical moment when you can afford kids. Rich or poor, there is never enough money. So we went and had our son by intent all the same.

I suppose I can say, tat while it will not be easy, at the same time, there is no such thing as 'easy parenting'. Hey, you will need to pass all the same tests every parent has to pass. The one having the child, your health will be at risk. The one watching, is risking losing a spouse to child birth. Being the one to possibly die is no thrill, and losing the one you love is no thrill. Oh there are so many things that make being a parent a lot of dangerous moments.
But you also get all the moments of joy too.
I didn't carry my son, but, I was still part of the process.
And I sure did the housewife part. My wife worked I was at home. Spent most of the first 5 years strolling around town with him. I was out and about with my son while most dad's were at work. I was at home raising my son, while most dad's were at work. I lived the life my mother had lived when I was young.

But I missed out on the morning sickness and stretch marks. I missed out on the screaming part too
But I managed to do all the rest of the stuff I suppose.

I think over all, you will enjoy being parents, and you will likely experience things that madden you as well.
Oh well, if I had a dollar for every time I was angered as a parent because of something connected to my son, and often connected in some fashion with the education system. It's not like you will not have your chances to get angry at the education system I suppose.

I don't see you suffering any real problems being temporarily in the other role and maybe wearing the other side's apparel.

[seebs]

So I guess the question is:

Any of the men who have been pregnant have thoughts or experiences to pass on? I think that would be really useful feedback.

[Jeatyn]

I think at the beginning of this thread spacial was referring to me :p I could be wrong, but anyhoo, I have a two year old daughter who I carried myself. I have been lurking this thread for a while and have been holding back from posting because I have a feeling it's all going to sound very negative xD I just want to preface it with: I love my daughter to bits, and I'm glad I had her, despite all the negativity I'm going to throw your way right now

I'm not gonna lie, pregnancy...is just awful. I'm not sure if my experience is typical because family women/books/internet research DID NOT prepare me for the horrible things that would happen to my body. I thought, bit of morning sickness, stretchmarks, feel a bit tired/emotional and might want weird food...no big deal, I can handle that. It was so much worse than anything I had imagined, giving birth was actually a huge relief and I didn't care too much about the pain and embarrassment, I was just glad it was going to be over soon and I could move on to the parenting part and get on with my life. I would go in to more detail but I don't want to gross anyone out xD Feel free to PM me though if you do have any questions.

You're were also right when you mentioned something about when you're pregnant...that's pretty much ALL you are. Everything is about the life inside you, that's all people seem to want to talk about, "baby and mummy" themed nonsense will be shoved in your face 24/7. I had been living full time as a man for two years before I got pregnant and suddenly everyone seemed to think that wasn't important. I heard so many times "oh I bet you're so excited to be a mum, I guess you're not transitioning any more right?" - so many people were genuinely shocked that I planned to continue living in my male role during and after the pregnancy, and planned on going on hormones as soon as my body recovered; and intended on being called "daddy" - even after informing people of this they'd often reply with something like "well I bet you'll change your mind once you become a mum"

I'm not sure if this will be an issue for you at all

a:considering you're non-op (and I assume not planning on having T? correct me if I'm wrong) and

b: because it was an insane thing for them to do in the first place and I was probably just unlucky......

but social services were on my case the second they heard I was pregnant - the very first midwife I saw reported me to them -  and there was a huge legal battle to take her off me based purely on the fact that I was trans and might roid out on hormones or something and eat her for a protein boost, god knows what their reasoning was. I won the case in the end, but it was horrendous, I detailed the journey on a thread on here while it was going on.

[seebs]

Thanks a ton; that's really useful feedback. Part of the problem has been that asking a doctor produced "oh, it's no big deal, the hormones make it all really tolerable" and similar responses. Which seemed... unrealistic.

[Jeatyn]

Thanks a ton; that's really useful feedback. Part of the problem has been that asking a doctor produced "oh, it's no big deal, the hormones make it all really tolerable" and similar responses. Which seemed... unrealistic.

Which might be true for cis women, I have heard countless women say something about "forgetting" the pain of birth once the baby comes and it does make sense that there would be a hormonal response to make females want to do it more than once I certainly haven't forgotten anything, I remember it all in vivid detail - maybe the oestrogen response doesn't quite work for trans men?

[seebs]

That would make sense. So, yeah, feedback on what it's actually like for a guy, rather than what a doctor says to be assuring, is a lot more useful. It's possible to decide that something will be painful and horrible and worth it because of desired outcomes, but it's insane to go into something when you know no one is telling the truth about what it is....

[Kevin Peña]

Which might be true for cis women, I have heard countless women say something about "forgetting" the pain of birth once the baby comes and it does make sense that there would be a hormonal response to make females want to do it more than once I certainly haven't forgotten anything, I remember it all in vivid detail - maybe the oestrogen response doesn't quite work for trans men?

Forgetting the pain of childbirth is a load of nonsense. I never heard the end of it from my mom. Geez, I thought her birth card expired.

[cristinat]

However how much we trans girls want to go down the preganancy path it will kill us.

Male skeletons and organ placement is different to genetic female and if we were to have an embryo inside our bodies, the male internal organs would not relocate like in genetic females. The aorta would be ripped from the heart as the baby grows and we would bleed to death.

So girls, if you are desperately wanting to carry a baby, be prepared for the worst.

Sorry to be the bearer of such bad news on a truly wonderful desire.

Cristina

[Catherine Sarah]

Hi Cristina,

Do you have any verified medical/scientific research/data that can support your argument? Apart from the difference in hip displacement and possible pubic bone restriction are the only differences between sexes, with respects to pregnancy.

With respect
Catherine

[seebs]

I was asking about the other side of things -- someone who has all the biological bits, and just isn't comfortable with them.

[spacial]

I was asking about the other side of things -- someone who has all the biological bits, and just isn't comfortable with them.

It's OK seebs, that's understood.

Think the discussion has drifted as it often does. Nothing to worry about. It's actually quite interesting. 

Good luck to you both.

[FTMDiaries]

I've been offline for a couple of days due to having had some surgery on Monday... but I thought I'd add my 2p worth as well.

I've been pregnant - twice - admittedly whilst still living in denial, even though I'd known for 6 years at that stage that I wanted to transition.

It has been a life-long ambition of mine to raise my own biological children. I couldn't adopt because I have a need to see myself in my children. It's unfortunate that the simplest way for me to do that was to fall pregnant, but that's a price I was willing to pay so that I could raise those kids. I don't regret it for a second.

Yes, pregnancy was weird. Yes, other people were weird with all the 'ooh, you're a mummy now!' nonsense. But it was a temporary thing and I dealt with it.

I dealt with the pregnancies by seeing them as simply a biological process that my body could do (like metabolising fat or producing urine) rather than a 'female' thing that only 'women' can do. Society likes to impose gender roles on us but we aren't obligated to play their little game. It's always been totally alien to me to think of myself as female so as long as I kept that mindset and viewed pregnancy (and breastfeeding) as a biological process I coped just fine. Oh, and the epidurals helped too.

As for other people? When they start getting all 'mumsy' with you, you can correct them; tell them to mind their own business; or tell them to eff off.

Y'know, my own mother died aged 48, and on her deathbed she told me that as she looked back upon her life, she regretted far more the things she didn't do than the things she did do. So when I had to weigh up the pros and cons of pregnancy, I discovered that I would regret far more having never been a parent, than putting up with a couple of months of increased dysphoria which eventually went away.

If it's important to you, you'll find a way to cope. Remember: the difficult bits only last a couple of months to a year or two; then society will see you as a parent to a child rather than a 'mummy with a baby'. Pregnancy doesn't last long in the grand scheme of things, but parenthood is (hopefully) for life.

[cristinat]

Hi Catherine
My neice (who is a nurse) has been fantastic in helping me in my transition and it was during a discussion with her about pregnancy when she informed me about how womens internals are different to guys.

I have tried to research this subject and their is no information available that I can refer you to but it is very interesting.

I am sure that many of us T girls would jump at the chance to carry a baby to full term but I am not aware of this ever having been acheived. I myself would love to be impregnated with a ready made baby and feel it grow inside me and deliver by C section but this has not yet happened that I can find.

Cristina

[FTMDiaries]

However how much we trans girls want to go down the preganancy path it will kill us.

Male skeletons and organ placement is different to genetic female and if we were to have an embryo inside our bodies, the male internal organs would not relocate like in genetic females. The aorta would be ripped from the heart as the baby grows and we would bleed to death.

And a million slash fanfiction writers' hearts have just been shattered too.

I doubt it's true, by the way. The difference between male and female internal organs (particularly the ones that have to move out of the way during pregnancy) is negligible.

If human internal organs were unable to relocate in the presence of a slow-growing abdominal mass, it would have to be true for both males and females as the structure and placement of almost all of those organs is identical in both sexes. Men all over the world would have their aortas ripped out by their beer bellies, and women's aortas would be ripped out by pregnancy. I don't see evidence of this happening to any significant degree. So if you can't find any info about it, it might just be because your niece may be mistaken.

The only significant restriction would be to the birth canal: male hips tend not to have a wide enough gap for a full-term infant to pass through. But a Caesarian would take care of that inconvenience.

So no. I don't think it's impossible at all. We just need to wait for Science to develop the right method. C'mon, Science!

[Catherine Sarah]

My neice (who is a nurse) has been fantastic in helping me in my transition and it was during a discussion with her about pregnancy when she informed me about how womens internals are different to guys.

Hi Cristinat,

Thank you for your info. And without being disrespectful to your niece, I believe she is gravely wrong in her understanding of basic biology. The similarities between the sexes are so profound it's not funny. Just to mention a few. Obviously major organs , heart, liver, kidney, bladder lungs etc are identical. (In basic function, not genetic/hormonally speaking) Male gland; prostate. Female gland Skene's gland. Male gland; gland penis (specifically carpus cavenosrum) Female gland; clitoris. Both connected identically to the pubic bone. Male gland; testes. Female gland; ovaries. Breast in both sexes are identical, except for one factor. Female breast are fully matured with milk glands, ducts etc. Male breast are grossly immature, however that can be rectified by Oestrogen supplementation to the extent males are able to lactate adequate milk supply for infant feeding.

Certainly with respects to Fallopian tubes, uterus and cervix are uniquely female. They do not have a corresponding male organ, as these were destroyed in utero, by the genetic male marker, during the first trimester by a hormone generated acid. Male gland; penis. Female gland; vagina.

As previously mentioned in another response, the size of obese men is a similar dimension to a pregnant woman, and to date there are no records of either sex having "aortas ripped out."

For pregnancy to be considered in a biological male, the endocrine system would have to be modified to represent the appropriate hormonal state of a biological female. This modification would prepare the male body to handle the necessary adjustments pregnancy demands.

I personally have had Oestrogen levels (2,000+ pmol/L) that equate to a pregnant woman in her first trimester. I'm still alive and functioning without any detrimental effect. All Endo induced and monitored.

With respects to the hip displacement, being a major stumbling block to the male frame. I'm sure with a bit of creative consideration by an osteopath surgeon that an artificial or modified  sacrum and/or coccyx could be engineered to overcome this infraction.

Based on the above, I will disagree with your statement relating to, "going down the pregnancy path will kill us." And I might suggest your niece be better informed before making such outlandish remarks. The TG community is already awash with an endemic magnitude of myths, lies, misinformation, old wives tales, bigotry and blatant ignorance, tempered with a lot of intolerance that makes for hard work in public education and correcting societies misconception of our predicament, at both a personal level as well at a general public level. And as evidenced, it's being promoted by the public health system. An institution you would think has it's facts right. That's tantamount to GM saying, "Cars don't work."

If you want to research this area of possibility, start looking at the advanced genetic engineering currently being done in the States. Predominantly for US Military personal returning from war zones with missing or impaired body parts and organs. Not to mention the counter organisations in Europe doing similar work. When you can 'print' a biogenetic replica of a persons liver and use it to replace a dysfunctional/damaged one that requires no ongoing organ rejection medication, you'll see we are a long way down the track in the arena of bio engineering. And that liver was 'printed' using a modified 3D printer. Instead of using ink or artificial compounds it used a genetic/growth hormone impregnated paste. In principle. If they can 'print' a liver, they can 'print' a female reproductive system.

With all due respect
Catherine