Circumcision

[AnonIntactivist]

Hello

I have come here out of curiosity as to the communities views on circumcision, having stumbled across a few older threads via google - they showed mixed views on the topic.

As you can tell by my username, my viewpoint on this is pretty strong...

I am currently under the impression that some may believe it is cleaner / less risk of infection. This is a view point easily quashed by looking at rates of HIV/AIDS in the US (high) and Europe (low) vs rates of circumcision in the US (high) and Europe (low).


And in terms of treatment for Phimosis, stretching is the answer.

Anyway, if this is totally out there and you don't like randoms coming in asking questions - feel free to delete and kick me out, but I am genuinely curious. If not, I'm eager to hear all view points.

[mistressstevie]

they showed mixed views on the topic.

Big topic with a lot of sincerely held beliefs on both sides.  You asked what other believe and only say you are pretty strongly against it.   

There are philosophical reasons to oppose cutting the skin of infants who cannot consent.  There are religious reasons the cut is still practiced as part of a covenant with g_d.  There are those who have aesthetic reasons and then there is simple tradition. 

Personally, I would prefer to come down on the do as little harm as possible side, but as humans we have far from perfect knowledge of exactly what harms and benefits may be involved on grand scales.  Learning as much as much as possible may be wisest.   

I do not know where you get the claim below but it lacks citations and an understanding of why it may or may not support your position:

I am currently under the impression that some may believe it is cleaner / less risk of infection. This is a view point easily quashed by looking at rates of HIV/AIDS in the US (high) and Europe (low) vs rates of circumcision in the US (high) and Europe (low).

There are many elements that play into the HIV/AIDS rates that may not have anything to do with circumcision.  Some of these have a lot to do with education and other socio-economic factors.  Others can be based upon differences in reporting factors.   One of the highest rates of HIV infection in the world was in an area with no significant number of circumcisions performed.  I can hunt that source is you are interested in learning. 

I have made a living using statistics to back up my positions and rarely does a single one make a case. 

-mS

[RedFox]

I've actually signed a few petitions against circumcision - so obviously my views or against it.  I was circumcised as a baby and while I don't remember the experience, I've always wished it had been up to me - and not someone else.  I find it funny that my mother complained to me about my piercings and tattoos - but had not argument to defend against the decision to cut into my genitals for no good reason.

I now have two boys and neither of them are circumcised.  I was told that they would ask questions about why they looked different than daddy, but that has only come up once and was really a non-issue.

Personally, I haven't seen enough scientific evidence to warrant mutilating my babies penises.  When they get older and can give informed consent they can get it done if they want.  But I don't feel I have the right to alter their bodies before they can even say yes or no.  It's not like it's a life-saving procedure.

I view this in the same light as religion.  As parents we are charged with caring for and educating our children.  Why teach them raw knowledge.  We teach them how to learn and to love learning.  We should teach them about religion - but from a philosophical perspective.  It is up to THEM to determine what they believe and what paths they want to follow.  And it should be up to THEM to decide if they wish to be circumcised or not (I'm guessing most rational humans would choose NOT).

[AnonIntactivist]

In terms of citations, apparently I'm not allowed to link. If you use google and search for intactivism or foreskin restoration, the links have plenty of information.

Anyway, I guess I mainly posted due to another 'wave' of being upset at the situation. Not sure I have any specific questions that I've not already answered through reading around in a couple of threads.

I have found an overwhelming (literally, I'm overwhelmed... I believe that's the meaning of the word anyway ) amount of information on this topic, the essence of which is:
Circumcision removes 80% of nerve endings, keretinizes (forms a layer of tough skin) the glans (where the remaining 20% of nerves are), removes mechanical 'sliding' function, and dries up the glans.

I'm posting this information in a wide variety of places, or at the very least reading pre-existing topics in a variety of places, out of curiosity as to public knowledge on the subject. In my mind, I'm trying to establish an understanding of whether I need to start preaching this to the world or whether the awareness is forming already (new infant circ rate is down to 30% in the US and falling, which is reassuring).

I'm in my mid twenties and only just discovered for definite in the last few months what was missing, it's like the whole world having a taboo on talking about eyesight and people not knowing they're colour blind, but meh.

Anyway, not really sure I have specific questions I'm glad this forum and others like it exist, if you are interested in facts and figures MistressStevie, pm me and I can message you the most concise resources.

[Jamie D]

You wrote: In terms of citations, apparently I'm not allowed to link. If you use google and search for intactivism or foreskin restoration, the links have plenty of information.

You are allowed to link, however, we review the links for appropriate content.  As another moderator mentioned to you, Susan's is not an age-restricted site, so linked content needs to meet our site standards.

Your description quoted above is a good way to indicate where further information may be found.  Good luck with your cause.