Autism!

[seebs]

Hi! I'm autistic. I know... at least five people who are autistic and genderqueer. According to an autism specialist I've talked to, various gender "abnormalities" (using the word statistically here, not pejoratively) are noticably more common in autistic people, or at least noticably more commonly detectable for whatever reason.

I figured I'd start a thread on this, because:
1. The topic is of interest to me.
2. It may be disproportionately likely to be interesting to other people here.
3. There is a lot of misinformation out there about autism.

The reason for that last one is simple: The largest source most news media have for information about autism is a group called "Autism Speaks". This group actively excludes autistic people from participation (I think they now have one token person with some sort of autism-spectrum diagnosis involved in some stuff), produces horrible and highly misleading anti-autistic propaganda, silences autistic people whenever possible, and promotes the notion that the correct solution to the "horrible disorder" of autism is to either cure it or arrange for fetuses that are likely to be autistic to be aborted so no one has to put up with us.

Many autistic people dislike this organization.

Also, they actively promote language like "person with autism". This is pretty unpopular with autistics I've known, because it creates a kind of separation between person and Horrible Affliction, while most of us view autism as part of who we are. You can't have a seebs that is not autistic; that would be a something-else that wasn't me.

I think in this community, I will get better than usual understanding of the analogy I like to use, which is the distinction between "a woman" and "a person with femaleness". The transwomen I've known have not generally felt that they are a person who happens to have femaleness; they feel that they are females, or female people, or women, or some other term which does not separate their person from their nature.

Anyway. Have questions? Comments? Curiousity? Ask away. I am very hard to offend and if I really think a question is too personal, I'll say so, not answer it, and not be upset that you asked. (It is totally mystifying to me that people get offended by personal questions. I recognize that it's true, and I accept that I should avoid doing things that hurt and offend people, but I still don't get it.)

[blueconstancy]

I am also autistic, and I define as "female because society thinks so," but I have no internal sense of gender and don't like being referred to as a woman. I've always figured it's because one of my autistic quirks is that gender makes no sense to me. I eventually did come to accept that other people meant it when they said they experienced a strong internal sense of their own gender, but when I was little, I thought believing in gender was just another in an endless list of seemingly random requirements that other people wanted me to comply with in order to be a "real person."

We seem to have quite a bit in common... and I also have no automatic objection to personal questions!

(Thanks for the excellent summary of why I hate Autism Speaks, too! I speak for myself, thank you very much. And your analogy for why we cannot be separated from the fact that we are autistic is brilliant. I equally don't consider myself "disabled" or "afflicted," despite efforts to put those labels on me - I am convinced that my autistic traits are a net benefit to me, and I wouldn't give up the gifts in order to avoid the drawbacks.)

[DeeperThanSwords]

I have read recently in my research that gender identity issues can quite often be misdiagnosed as ASDs, as they have a fair bit in common, in terms of social role and behaviour difficulties. I certainly think (and observe) there is also a high number of people who have both, but I can see how a misdiagnosis could happen.

[seebs]

I tend to concede that I have traits which are "a disability" in that there are tasks which are trivial for the average three-year-old which I either can't do or have to work very hard at -- but at the same time, mostly the "disability" comes from a conflict between me and the structure of the society I live in. A lot of the "disabilities" would cease to be problems if autistic traits were the vast majority and there were a small number of people who were crippled by their obsession with social interactions.

In the sense of "do I function dramatically better if people make accommodations for ways in which I am unusual", yes, I definitely have a disability. But I also have a number of unusual abilities; on the whole, it's not obvious that I'm worse off, and as long as I've got a reasonably friendly environment, I'm pretty happy.

And I am totally aware that some of the things I do as a result are funny to people. They're often sort of funny to me, too.

[blueconstancy]

"And I am totally aware that some of the things I do as a result are funny to people. They're often sort of funny to me, too."

Ditto. Excellent point about the conflict between dis/ability and expectations, too.

[seebs]

The difference between a disability and a superpower is often a matter of how you use it. The difference between "can't react appropriately to social cues" and "acts calmly and rationally in a crisis" is mostly one of timing.

[Medusa]

There is benefits of being a solitaire wolf and not to be part in flock of sheep

[DeeperThanSwords]

I don't think life is necessarily a choice between wolves and sheep, that seems overly simplistic, and quite unnecessarily disparaging towards people who do socialise.

[Medusa]

Maybe is but at least 3/4 of that "normal people" is just dumb sheep without own dreams and goals, just living in their own small worlds of eat (must work to have food), sleep and reproduction.
Just step back and look at these masses, in my eyes it is just flock of sheep. You may argue that they don't have choice, but everyone have and what more choices you want to give them than is at today world, never was so many possibilities what to do and how to live, they don't want to, they want to be small sheep, part of flock, invisible without responsibility.

It is my view of world, no offense.

[seebs]

I wouldn't dispute that, but I think that's also true of autistic people; people in general are ... I tend to use the word "asleep". They are not aware that they are making choices.

[aleon515]

I have Asperger's. I have read stuff that makes me think that ftm transgenders might sometimes be Aspie, and that it is possible the two conditions are related. One theory on Asperger's is that there is at some point too much testosterone in the womb of the developing fetus. This is very similar to one theory on transgender.

I have not seen a lot/any mtfs who are Aspie. Doesn't mean they don't exist. But of course the theory wouldn't explain it.

I have not read that gender issues can be misdxed as ASD-- would love to see this.


--Jay

[Alma]

I used to think I had Aspergers, then after so much failure and frustration I came to the realization that I think like a woman and pretty much imagine myself in my body and thoughts as one. And then I realized I spent most of my life going against my nature because I thought I had to; it shouldn't be a surprise that someone like that might confuse themselves as autistic.

I don't think life is necessarily a choice between wolves and sheep, that seems overly simplistic, and quite unnecessarily disparaging towards people who do socialise.

umm...hi. I guess it's just my opinion, but it feels very hard to agree with you when I consider how easily people will decide what is good and bad, normal and abnormal, and right and wrong for other people. Homosexuality used to be considered a mental disorder and psychiatry and psychotherapy aimed to eliminate it. Transsexuals were once considered insane - Gender Identity Disorder; how nice it must be to be told that who you are is a delusion and isn't right. Even with autism, there are those who would prefer to see it as a defect, instead of an evolutionary step (perhaps not a great one as far as socializing goes), even though there is no proof for such an idea. Anything really can be good or bad, depending on context. And autism being on a spectrum doesn't help any cause for judging one way or another.

And even when you get people to identify with the same group or label, they have a tendency to ostracize one another by further differentiating between them. Look at how adamant post-op transsexuals are in describing themselves as "true", compared to the pre-ops. Ah, then you get the transvestites, which no one wants to be a part of because it makes transgenders look like pervs (I guess is the idea).

And then there's the tendency for people to use the fact that they can decide they are different from another person to see them as bad. And all it really takes is for one side to hate another and in self-defense the hate grows mutually to the other side - now both sides hate each other. And we get war and politics and the beautiful act so ugly - All that glitters isn't always gold and history is written by the victors. Fighting isn't always enough, if winning defines everything.

But you can still socialize as a wolf. See it's the wolf that keeps the sheep in line when they get stupid. The wolf still needs the sheep to be a wolf. But God help the sheep when the wolf is ignorant. And God help the wolf when the sheep figure out how to work together against their wolf. Socializing is funny like that...you know? Humanity isn't always so humane. But don't let it get you down...

[angiejuly]

It is evolution! The gifted, Mass media  wants us all to think autism is a disorder. It is if we are to live in ways against our best knowledge. Conformity is torcher to us.