Transgender inmate wins hearing appeal

[EmmaS]

I wonder if having tax dollars pay for inmates surgeries helps or hurts "our public image" in general or if it doesn't have any effect at all. I agree that it's unfair that they have their surgery paid for because they are a criminal but overall could it possibility help us or just hurt us?

[Brooke777]

I wonder if having tax dollars pay for inmates surgeries helps or hurts "our public image" in general or if it doesn't have any effect at all. I agree that it's unfair that they have their surgery paid for because they are a criminal but overall could it possibility help us or just hurt us?

Well, I was actually talking to one of my friends about this today. She is a total supporter of trans rights, and has an aunt who is trans (not to mention me as a good friend). She was totally outraged at this and it actually hurt the trans community's standing in her eyes. So, I think it will not end well for us as more trans people go for this.

[EmmaS]

I suppose that would be my guess too, the public already has negative connotations from what I can tell already and then talking about using hard working tax dollars for inmates, specifically ones for the surgery makes me believe the public might be a little annoyed and upset.

[Zumbagirl]

I wonder if having tax dollars pay for inmates surgeries helps or hurts "our public image" in general or if it doesn't have any effect at all. I agree that it's unfair that they have their surgery paid for because they are a criminal but overall could it possibility help us or just hurt us?

Rosa park could have knuckled under and sat on the back of the bus, but she didn't because she knew that segregation was wrong. Maybe sitting in the front of the bus was wrong in the eyes of society but that didn't mean societies point of view was right.

Forget about criminal or not, how about plain old human decency. Where does this enter the picture. These people are still people. They are human and to leave them suffering is utterly inhuman. They are after all one of us. Sometimes someone has to take a position that makes people or society feel uncomfortable but that still doesn't mean that while we discuss this we should treat our fellow humans with a lack of compassion. Otherwise what kind of society are we?

[Devlyn]

We are a society that treats criminals better than the people that were victimized by them. How far do we bend over to placate those who broke the very basc rules of that society? What happens when an inmate insists they need caviar or they will suffer unfairly? There need to be limits on what people who are being punished can demand. I don't know where these cases fall in relation to that line.

[EmmaS]

Yeah I agree criminals are people as well, but they aren't being mistreated while in jail, if anything they have more rights then they should have. Is it really fair that they have their surgery paid for and we are stuck paying thousands of dollars? While I wish the US paid for it's citizens for the surgery, I don't think the best way to get to that goal is to start by paying for inmates, why not use those tax dollars to start paying for transgender individuals who don't break the law?

[Devlyn]

Someone smarter than me already answered that before. Inmates get free attorneys and they have nothing but free time. The yous and mes of the world scrape by and can't afford to pay a lawyer for ten years to challenge Supreme Court rulings.

[Kevin Peña]

Okay, I can see both sides.

For--> You can't call SRS a medically necessary procedure and deny it to transgender inmates. Doing so implies that it's not vital.

Against--> US prisons are too good to be called prison. 3 square meals a day, plenty of free time, free heat, free electricity, free bed, pillow, and sheets, and free healthcare. It's not fair that people outside of prison can't get free SRS and live happily.

[EmmaS]

I would be totally okay with inmates getting the surgery paid for eventually in the US, I just think people like myself and everyone else who doesn't break the law should receive the funding first and then go from there. I think it looks bad if we use our tax dollars to pay for inmates surgeries that we can't even use for the rest of us who abide by the law.

[Brooke777]

I would be totally okay with inmates getting the surgery paid for eventually in the US, I just think people like myself and everyone else who doesn't break the law should receive the funding first and then go from there. I think it looks bad if we use our tax dollars to pay for inmates surgeries that we can't even use for the rest of us who abide by the law.

Well said.

[Jamie D]

The likelihood is that the original decision will be overturned on appeal in the Federal Court of Appeals.  Common sense usually prevails in the higher courts.  Usually.

Forget about criminal or not, how about plain old human decency. Where does this enter the picture? These people are still people. They are human and to leave them suffering is utterly inhuman. They are after all one of us. Sometimes someone has to take a position that makes people or society feel uncomfortable but that still doesn't mean that while we discuss this we should treat our fellow humans with a lack of compassion. Otherwise what kind of society are we?

I suggest we ask the late Cheryl Kosilek about Michelle's  "human decency"?

And if this is an issue orchestrated by the Republican Party, why did both Rep. Barney Frank and now-Sen. Elizabeth Warren, both Democrats in Massachusetts, come out against the ruling?

It seems to me that imprisonment is designed as a punishment, for criminal activity, not a reward.

[Zumbagirl]

All of the comments I have read make me feel sad. Maybe I shouldn't have joined this forum. Oh well, I've said my peace. 

[lycheeblossom]

I have an enormous amount of sympathy for the prevailing view in this thread—and bristle at the inherent unfairness—but I also think it is reactionary and short-sighted, and believe this bears repeating:

Legal progress in the United States is made by setting precedents; every time a victory like this is achieved in court, however undeserving its beneficiary may appear, the chances that insurance companies will eventually be forced to cover the cost of transition/GRS increase significantly.

Conversely, every time medical intervention is deemed unnecessary for an incarcerated trans person by a court of law, the likelihood that coverage for surgical procedures for trans people will be provided by insurance companies is set back significantly.

[Zumbagirl]

Conversely, every time medical intervention is deemed unnecessary for an incarcerated trans person by a court of law, the likelihood that coverage for surgical procedures for trans people will be provided by insurance companies is set back significantly.

At least there is one other person who gets it

[lycheeblossom]

I should also add that prisons should strive to be as rehabilitative as they are punitive (for the record: I do not believe that every criminal can be rehabilitated), and that the spectrum of imprisonable offenses is extremely broad, and at least a small percentage of prisoners are innocent of the crimes for which they have been incarcerated. To deny basic meals and medical care is cruel, inhumane, and in itself criminal.

Anyone who thinks that the basic amenities provided in prison make it anything less than a torturously unpleasant experience should check in for a stay of their own and report back to us.

[Brooke777]

I agree, BASIC meals, BASIC medical care, and a BASIC living arrangements (bed, toilet, shower) are all necessary. But, the luxury accommodations that many prisoners in the US get is ridiculous. I have known people who commit crimes just to go to prison because it is a better life on the inside than it is on the out. I am all for rehabilitating them, and providing reward systems for those who excel in the rehabilitation process. But the treatment they get is far too nice.

Now, in my mind, a murderer and/or a rapist has already given up their right to humane treatment when they committed such a heinous act against another human being.

[Zumbagirl]

Now, in my mind, a murderer and/or a rapist has already given up their right to humane treatment when they committed such a heinous act against another human being.

What about crimes of passion, or a violent confrontation gone wrong? What about people convicted but are really innocent? There have been a lot people exonerated by DNA evidence or recanted testimony. If a person is wrongly convicted and sent to jail and is late released upon proof of innocence, would it still have been morally okay to deny an innocent person medical treatment while they were waiting to be cleared of a crime? If the answer is no then who gets to decide?

I won't deny that there are horrible sociopathic monsters in this world, but I don't think that because someone is in prison means they are automatically monsters. Like the old computer-ism: garbage in, garbage out. I really don't think a society that's believes: animals in, animals out for a prison philosophy has much hope for a bright future especially a society that has more imprisoned people than the height of soviet communism.

[Brooke777]

What about crimes of passion, or a violent confrontation gone wrong? What about people convicted but are really innocent? There have been a lot people exonerated by DNA evidence or recanted testimony. If a person is wrongly convicted and sent to jail and is late released upon proof of innocence, would it still have been morally okay to deny an innocent person medical treatment while they were waiting to be cleared of a crime? If the answer is no then who gets to decide?

I won't deny that there are horrible sociopathic monsters in this world, but I don't think that because someone is in prison means they are automatically monsters. Like the old computer-ism: garbage in, garbage out. I really don't think a society that's believes: animals in, animals out for a prison philosophy has much hope for a bright future especially a society that has more imprisoned people than the height of soviet communism.

I really do agree that prison needs to rehabilitate the inmates, and help them become the best people possible. Also, they deserve basic medical treatment. It is a very difficult thing for me (this is just me) to even have a clue on how to decide if SRS is medically necessary or not.

I do not however believe in crimes of passion. If you cannot control yourself enough to not kill someone when you are really upset, then you deserve to be in prison. As for self defense, that is not murder. You may kill your assailant, but you did not murder them. During that type of confrontation, you are not thinking about ending their life, you are thinking about preserving yours. Trust me, I have been there many times and killing them never once entered my mind.

[EmmaS]

Completely agree with Brooke, just think we need SRS first.

[Zumbagirl]

What about an innocent person wrongly convicted? Is your philosophy as simple as: that's tough. Sucks to be you?