Why are so many transwomen computer programmers/engineers/IT?

[MaidofOrleans]

No flack because I think your right.  I talked with my psychiatrist about the young transistioneers and their struggles.  She agreed with what you said as well.  If I loose my job tomorrow, I'll have another job before I leave the parking lot.  I don't worry to much about the monetary cost either.

The only point of slight disagreement is around spouses.  Try to imagine looking at the woman you truly love, the one who has been there through trials and good times and grand children and surgeries and and and.....and tell her your actually a woman.  Way harder for me than telling family, friends and work all put together.

Transitioning is hard.  For some, particularly the 18-25 crowd, it can be harder.

Unfortunately I can't imagine that. One of the reasons I've started transition so early is because I have no interest in women or my male body. It put a huge damper on the whole attempting a relationship with women especially when I don't feel anything. When I tried to date women to "fix myself" or at least look normal to my family who was beginning to think I was gay, I wanted to be treated like a woman and that put a serious damper on anything getting serious and nothing lasted past the third date if I was lucky to get that far.

[Alainaluvsu]

First, I'd like to say much of my family, including two girls in it, have or are trying to get engineering degrees. I've also had a number of clients who were engineering / architecture firms. The rate of female employment there was probably 1:4. At least where I'm from...  it's not unusual to see women in engineering. IT, yes it is... (probably around 1:20 or 1:30) but engineering? Not really.

But in response to

I notice a lot of trans women in male dominated fields with good pay because they transitioned after they had the schooling and experience provided by male privilege. These late transitioners are in a kind of sweet spot if they managed to keep their jobs. Many of the younger transitioners are caught with no work or schooling experience because they faced the adult world as out trans women and not men with a secret. Due to this, many of them are left homeless or having to sell their bodies to survive. The fact is that this board is not a realistic portrayal of the trans community. MOST trans women do not have access to these forums or take part in them because they are too busy struggling to make ends meet to chat online. Every day many of them are killed or imprisoned for who they are. I am lucky to have a supportive middle class family or even I perhaps would have ended up like them. So no there are not many trans women who are computer programmers/engineers/IT, most of them are homeless or prostitutes.

I agree. It's hard enough to get a job as a woman. The market is competitive for us simply as women. But put the trans indentifier on there and the difficulty trying to find a job is much higher... especially without work experience. I'm so grateful I have so many years of customer service experience before transitioning because without it, who knows who would take a chance on me. I'm also pretty glad I lost any interest in working in IT and started going to school for hair.

Another "manly" job that hasn't been touched on is the military. I know lots of trans women in the military that are disabled or has gotten VA benefits. There's nothing wrong with this, they are just another commonality in our community.

I wonder how many of us are pretty much locked into our place of work because they know it'd be difficult to find another employer that is willing to employ us at a livable wage, or at least feel that we are locked into that company for life. I also wonder how much harder it is for those who do NOT pass compared to those that DO pass. Plus, I've met lots of trans women that just have very poor personalities for the work force. They may be nice people, but maybe they think the world is against them and go out with a chip on their shoulder. I've met a few like that.

Then again, depending on where you live, we're just freaks to many people. It's just a sucky reality.

The only point of slight disagreement is around spouses.  Try to imagine looking at the woman you truly love, the one who has been there through trials and good times and grand children and surgeries and and and.....and tell her your actually a woman.  Way harder for me than telling family, friends and work all put together.

Transitioning is hard.  For some, particularly the 18-25 crowd, it can be harder.

I'm so glad I didn't fall into that trap. Lucky for me (I guess..) I like men and could never develop a relationship with a guy because I was (still am) so freaked out when a guy started touching my genitals. I'm sure telling a gay guy that would be almost as tough, but not nearly as tough as telling your children... wow.

[Kevin Peña]

Great, now I'm scared out of my mind. Thanks a lot. 

[Sadie]

I will just say this in response to the last several responses.

I don't think we should be too quick to judge anyone's situation based on their age.  I have heard plenty of success stories from young transitioners and know older transitioners who have absolutely horrible transition experiences.

[Alainaluvsu]

I don't think anybody here is judging anybody. I just see generalities and such.

[MaidofOrleans]

I will just say this in response to the last several responses.

I don't think we should be too quick to judge anyone's situation based on their age.  I have heard plenty of success stories from young transitioners and know older transitioners who have absolutely horrible transition experiences.

No one is judging.

I'm trying to put it into perspective that there is an obvious division in the quality of life between those who have built a successful life and career as a man before transition and those younger trans women who must struggle from the get go because of their trans female status. I'm not just talking about the US, it's even worse in the developing world. Counter to the concept of this thread, our own little community gives a dishonest picture of the trans community at large. There really aren't that many trans women programmers/IT/engineers.

[Sadie]

No one is judging.

I'm trying to put it into perspective that there is an obvious division in the quality of life between those who have built a successful life and career as a man before transition and those younger trans women who must struggle from the get go because of their trans female status. I'm not just talking about the US, it's even worse in the developing world. Counter to the concept of this thread, our own little community gives a dishonest picture of the trans community at large. There really aren't that many trans women programmers/IT/engineers.

I would agree with this in a general sense. Though if you check out many of the success stories on Lynn Conway's page, a good many of them were young transitioners.  Some of them may no longer be young but they were when they transitioned.  As far as being outside of the US, yes in some countries it's absolutely horrific but in other countries it's better. The US is not the most progressive country in the world when it comes to trans issues.  In developing countries just about everything is worse across all aspects of life if you are any kind of minority.

[BunnyBee]

I am somewhat with ya about male privilege, but I would put it just a little differently I think..

Male privilege affects all women.  Being trans can make things even harder in a lot of cases.  But yeah, being a woman means fewer opportunities and lower wages for the same work,  in general.  The greater % of your life is spent as a woman, the greater you will be affected by this socioeconomic dynamic.

But don't forget that late transitioners have their own set of struggles, and if you gave any of them the choice I bet 99 out of a 100 will tell ya they wish they transitioned before male privilege ever kicked in.  Also not every older person gets to take advantage of male privilege.  Like if somebody spent a long career in my field for instance, doing freelance and/or working for small companies with no upward mobility, ehhh they may have had some advantages, but not a ton.  Finally, people that are hamstrung by depression and a lot of the things that come along with GID don't get the same opportunities in general that your average big personality man does.

[A]

Being uncomfortable in your body = being uncomfortable with interaction with your body.

Being uncomfortable with interaction with your body = wanting to be with others less.

Wanting to be with others less = being more drawn to solitary activities.

Being more drawn to solitary activities = being more drawn to computers.

Says the multimedia (Web graphic design and programming) student.

[Alainaluvsu]

I am somewhat with ya about male privilege, but I would put it just a little differently I think..

Male privilege affects all women.  Being trans can make things even harder in a lot of cases.  But yeah, being a woman means fewer opportunities and lower wages for the same work,  in general.  The greater % of your life is spent as a woman, the greater you will be affected by this socioeconomic dynamic.

But don't forget that late transitioners have their own set of struggles, and if you gave any of them the choice I bet 99 out of a 100 will tell ya they wish they transitioned before male privilege ever kicked in.  Also not every older person gets to take advantage of male privilege.  Like if somebody spent a long career in my field for instance, doing freelance and/or working for small companies with no upward mobility, ehhh they may have had some advantages, but not a ton.  Finally, people that are hamstrung by depression and a lot of the things that come along with GID don't get the same opportunities in general that your average big personality man does.

I wish I transitioned earlier. That's a no brainer. I want the rest of my life back.

Let me also add to that perspective. Yes, I've had about a decade of male privilege, but I wish I could erase it. I really don't like putting my past references down, because I always feel they're going to out me. Not only that, but it was manly work that I don't want associated with me. "Oh, you've climbed through attics before? Well, come to think of it... I'd like you to do that just this one time..." If I could have it all back, I'd probably go to hair school right out of high school, because I'd be out and open then and not worried about what other people think as far as "Uhh that's girly".

[BunnyBee]

Yeah...  I think I might have actually done something with my life if I transitioned earlier.  It's never too late to start I suppose.

[Sadie]

Yeah...  I think I might have actually done something with my life if I transitioned earlier.  It's never too late to start I suppose.

Same here, I don't even think I had male privilege. Studied fine arts in college until I switched to nursing. Became a nurse, that certainly wasn't screaming male privilege.   

Then I went into IT, but the truth is I am under-educated for that field and have never had any upward mobility.  I would have loved to just start out female in college and see where it took me. My bet is I would be more successful, not being distracted by years of gender dysphoria lets you focus on what you really want out of life.

I'm hoping its not too late to start but some days it feels that way.

[JLT1]

Great, now I'm scared out of my mind. Thanks a lot. 

Get a plan together starting with where you are at, where you are going and how you are going to get there.  Becoming a woman is a big part of that plan, but it isn't all of that plan. Include education, some type of career that pays money.  The works.  And be honest with yourself, what you like and don't like.  Then, as life happens, adapt your plan because it will change.  Over the next few years, your plan could become obsolete.  But what you will have learned in making the plan will never leave. 

I've read a number of your posts.  Your smart, mature, caring.  You'll do well. 

[Aleah]

I got into programming and video games on a PC at about 13, once puberty started it helped me deal with my crippling depression and anxiety.

It was easy to get lost in a virtual world and forget you even existed.. nice escape.

I guess I just got good at it so I stuck with it through high school and university, I don't think I'm particularly gifted at it or that I absolutely love it but it pays well and is a fairly liberal industry.

If I was to take a guess as to why, I personally think MTFs gravitate to more task orientated environments where there is less inter-personal socialization as a part of the work due to their anxiety and/or depression.

[muuu]

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[V M]

There seems to be a huge correlation between being transgender and having a job as a computer programmer, computer engineer, or an IT job, among other computer geek professions. Myself including, I am a math / CS major.

Why is this?

The fear of actual physical labor?

[Alainaluvsu]

I knew from a younger age, I was just afraid of my family. Then I was afraid of my friends... but I was afraid of my friends for good reason. They were violent people.

[BunnyBee]

Yep, fear paralyzed me my whole life, just like that.   So many things to be scared of.  Wish I coulda been stronger, ya know?   But I am just super happy with where, and who, I am now.  The past just got me here.

I just realized I haven't even answered the original question of the thread yet.  Well, I don't know why cause I didn't go into those fields so I have no experience with it.  There, now I still haven't answered it lol.

[Carrie Liz]

I've been reading this conversation about "male privilege" and about people who transitioned young being at a disadvantage due to being looked down upon by society.

Well, again, this is just one person's experience, but I personally believe that I would have been MUCH better off in terms of work situation if I had transitioned younger. Because my gender identity issues completely WRECKED my schooling. For some reason, I just always found myself completely unable to complete the simplest of tasks because it just never felt like my head was working right. I had not expected female hormones and the prospect of gender transition to change this in any way, but miraculously it did.

I was a VERY smart kid, the kind who consistently got A's on every single test without even studying or doing the homework, and actually placed in the top 10 in the state in both geometry and algebra in Mu Alpha Theta, but I was constantly failing my classes because I kept just having NO desire to do any of the work, and my personal life felt like total crap. I just couldn't get myself to do ANYTHING, because all I felt like doing was sitting around and feeling sorry for myself. But now, with estrogen finally running through my system, for the first time ever it really feels like my brain is finally working right, and I finally actually feel like doing things after 15 years of constant academic failure.

Why do I bring this up? Because if I had stood up and admitted my transsexual feelings earlier, I really believe that I could have avoided all of the academic pitfalls that I fell into in high school in college. I could easily have been an honors student, I could easily have stayed in the division-1 engineering college that I went to, and I could have had a hugely successful career. As it is, my gender identity issues dragged me down an unfathomable amount. I failed four classes in high school and graduated with a 2.8, I failed out of the division-1 engineering college after only 1 year, and I spent SEVEN YEARS of my life struggling through the curriculum at a small liberal-arts college one class at a time before I FINALLY graduated. With my test scores and mathematical ability, I could have easily gone to a teir-1 college. But I've missed out on that opportunity because I didn't decide to transition until a year and a half after graduating from little old podunk Muskingum University. I have missed out on SO MUCH opportunity by not transitioning younger.

So again, this is just one person's perspective, but my constant unfulfilled gender identity issues pretty much completely destroyed my academic life. I was a straight-A student until testosterone started flooding into my system at age 13, and I wasted pretty much ALL of my academic potential because I spent all of my high school and college years feeling like total crap. So that's another factor to consider in regards to this whole old-versus-young transition business.

[Emily Aster]

I guess it could go either way depending on the person. I had similar strengths and problems in school. I have a high school diploma and everything else is self-taught. I've actually done well for myself, but the gender dysphoria actually helped me instead of hurting me. I needed to find something to focus on that I actually liked, and I did. I've probably spent enough time over the years studying computer programming on my own to have enough credit hours to cover several PhDs. It's what I focused on when I was trying to fight off the dysphoria and it's my current career field too. Now that I've accepted things, I find it harder to stay focused on work because all I can think about is taking that next step in a transition.