reply to sexism topic

[empty]

already bending the rules here, sorry.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,135553.0.html
wrote this whole reply so why waste it
you may consider me not transgender because I have no means of treatment just restarting the topic in a way that anyone is allowed to comment on the different perspectives of sexism

Yeah, it's one of the worst things about this experience for me. I support feminism yet feel defensive toward it at the same time. I was raised by an old school feminist, who'd say things about men that I felt attacked by but couldn't admit. The worst part is I know that it's true. There is part of me that understands where sexism comes from and a part of me that understands where feminism comes from. Where I live is pretty traditionally sexist. So of course I'm let's say "untreated" and anyone who finds out doesn't really understand or take it well. I feel like any guy who doesn't like being feminine, but taken to an extreme. I think the reason men are sexist boils down to fear of the unknown. But at the same time I must take on everything I feel about women because in the objective reality of the society I live in, that is my place. I can never be feminist because it's not my experience, I don't have the essential female perspective. But I can listen to them up until the point where they theorize gender isn't real. Before I realized I wasn't normal, I somewhat assumed everyone who had to be female hated it this much and was just better at pretending to be okay. But soon my internal/external conflict became the biggest problem in my life. It has ruined everything about my social relations because there's no understanding with either gender. I cannot communicate as male or female. I hope that someday people can understand each other, but for me it seems impossible. I would rather not interact than interact in the girl's place. If I talk to a guy in a friendly way, because I'm female, that is flirting. If I talk to a girl, they'll want a female-female friendship. There's no point in making friends when they can't recognize you.



Edit: You sure are bending the rules. No profanity,  please. Devlyn

[Keira]

Before I realized I wasn't normal, I somewhat assumed everyone who had to be female hated it this much and was just better at pretending to be okay. But soon my internal/external conflict became the biggest problem in my life. It has ruined everything about my social relations because there's no understanding with either gender. I cannot communicate as male or female. I hope that someday people can understand each other, but for me it seems impossible. I would rather not interact than interact in the girl's place. If I talk to a guy in a friendly way, because I'm female, that is flirting. If I talk to a girl, they'll want a female-female friendship. There's no point in making friends when they can't recognize you.

I can relate to your social experiences, and I think many others can as well.

I never knew why I didn't fit in, and it wasn't just because I was different or weird. I thought I could make friends with guys, but to do that I had to pretend for the majority of my high school life. I couldn't make friends with girls because I was so used to pretending to be a guy, and not to mention that they thought I was flirting. When I was pretending to be male, I thought that all of the other guys were just pretending as well; but the truth is that they weren't.

This did not end at high school. I continue to be perceived as male and I have the same stereotypes and expectations being pushed onto me. Thus I have almost given up on trying to be friends, at least until I transition (even a little bit).

What's just as worse as being a girl and being thought of as trying to flirt with a guy...being perceived as male and every time you say something they assume you are flirting and simply go quiet. And also having aggressive guys trying to talk to you about breasts, butts, and sex or alternatively, beer, sports, and other such manly things.

In the past few days I probably have weirded out a few girls by suggesting that they should get "this or that accessory" or "that this particular thing would look good on them". The whole time they're thinking, "wow if he's trying to flirt with me he clearly doesn't realize that he's gay".

[kelly_aus]

Just to point out, sexism can go both ways - it's not the exclusive domain of men.

[Beth Andrea]

You can be trans, even without transitioning to any degree.

Also, don't allow people who scream and shout and throw tantrums to define FOR YOU what is, and is not, "feminism." Women--in particular the "militant feminists"--are all about control, just as the worst of men are.

Define yourself and your views upon what you feel is right...and dismiss anyone who insists that you see yourself as they see you.

[spacial]

You can be trans, even without transitioning to any degree.

Also, don't allow people who scream and shout and throw tantrums to define FOR YOU what is, and is not, "feminism." Women--in particular the "militant feminists"--are all about control, just as the worst of men are.

Define yourself and your views upon what you feel is right...and dismiss anyone who insists that you see yourself as they see you.

Definately this^

[Nero]

And also having aggressive guys trying to talk to you about breasts, butts, and sex

This just struck me as funny the way you put it. Breasts and butts huh? 
So what did you do when guys started talking breasts and butts? Just go along to not come off weird?

[Lesley_Roberta]

There's good and bad in EVERY grouping of humanity.

I am sure I can look 'some' feminists straight it the face and tell them they are no better than a male macho jerk, but with breasts and a vagina. Because some feminists are as useful to other women, as macho idiots are to other men.

Sexism is really just bias based on sex, and you can be virtually any flavour under the rainbow and be a sexist person.

I also can relate to how some geographical regions can be real hell to be anything other than the dominant vanilla version of humanity.

It might be religion, it might be something like just plain rural and not overly worldly. It might be something based on nation and culture.

I live in small town Canada, and I suspect my rural conditions would be a lot more intrusive than it would be for someone downtown Toronto. I can't think of a single place in Arabia I would wish to be.

Some parts of the world just confound you even while seemingly be openly supportive. Japan, you would think it would not be a problem , but they are just awash in contradictions.

I grew up surrounded by overly old fashioned values. Fortunately they have never been crammed down my throat.

[Q]

Boy, this thread has made me laugh.

[...] What's just as worse as being a girl and being thought of as trying to flirt with a guy...being perceived as male and every time you say something they assume you are flirting and simply go quiet. And also having aggressive guys trying to talk to you about breasts, butts, and sex or alternatively, beer, sports, and other such manly things.

In the past few days I probably have weirded out a few girls by suggesting that they should get "this or that accessory" or "that this particular thing would look good on them". The whole time they're thinking, "wow if he's trying to flirt with me he clearly doesn't realize that he's gay".

This just struck me as funny the way you put it. Breasts and butts huh? 
So what did you do when guys started talking breasts and butts? Just go along to not come off weird?

When I end up in breasts and butts discussions I just listen and maybe go ' yes, right, breasts and butts... uh huh'... and I've had a lot of these discussions, as I've worked in factories, in the past, where this and how 'freaky' gay people are has been a regular part of the work day, lol.

I once had a guy telling me about 'shirt lifters'(gay people) and which pubs I should avoid so they didn't molest me. This was a new term to me at the time and I couldn't help but think, 'what?? Is this like men and socks... does he think gay people only have sex with their shirts on... lol'.

I like beer though, so beer discussions I can do.

Just to point out, sexism can go both ways - it's not the exclusive domain of men.

This, definitely.

You can be trans, even without transitioning to any degree.[...]

I sometimes feel like a minority of a minority, because I would classify myself as 'trans' (whatever that actually means), but have no current plans to 'transition'. I haven't figured out how to square simultaneously wanting to 'transition' and not wanting to, or not thinking it would be a good idea, for various reasons, either... It always seems like such an unsupported area, for which one is, pretty much, on ones own.

[Keira]

This just struck me as funny the way you put it. Breasts and butts huh? 
So what did you do when guys started talking breasts and butts? Just go along to not come off weird?

Yeah I intended it to be funny, but I couldn't think of another "B" word.

Most of the time I just ignore the conversation until the topic changes; unless it happens to be funny. I used to be labeled as the class pervert; apparently I was TOO GOOD at pretending to be male. The funny part is that anything I said was just random crap that I probably heard other people say.

At work I was waiting for my ride with this guy I know. And this girl walks by, and he says to me (essentially), "Wow, what a grade A piece of a**". I just pretended not to hear what he said, because I felt it objectified the girl. What can you do though, boys will be boys and some boys will be girls ROFL.

[Q]

[...]At work I was waiting for my ride with this guy I know. And this girl walks by, and he says to me (essentially), "Wow, what a grade A piece of a**". I just pretended not to hear what he said, because I felt it objectified the girl. What can you do though, boys will be boys and some boys will be girls ROFL.

LOL.

[Beth Andrea]

At work I was waiting for my ride with this guy I know. And this girl walks by, and he says to me (essentially), "Wow, what a grade A piece of a**". I just pretended not to hear what he said, because I felt it objectified the girl. What can you do though, boys will be boys and some boys will be girls ROFL

I'll do that sometimes...it's just a way of acknowledging someone who is attractive in some way.

[Keira]

I'll do that sometimes...it's just a way of acknowledging someone who is attractive in some way.

I know what you mean though, I have no problem thinking stuff like that...but wow the way he turned her into "just another piece of tail" is just crossing the line.

I might have to do that to a guy I know when I go full time..."wow, check out that girls rack"

Him = O.O

Not so funny now is it? Lol

[Beth Andrea]

I know what you mean though, I have no problem thinking stuff like that...but wow the way he turned her into "just another piece of tail" is just crossing the line.

I might have to do that to a guy I know when I go full time..."wow, check out that girls rack"

Him = O.O

Not so funny now is it? Lol

LOL...I've had lesbian friends who do that...and believe you me, they're looking with lust in their eyes...

[Kevin Peña]

What's sexist is claiming that all men are sexist and ignoring the women that are. 

[empty]

Sorry mod, force of habit...

The whole time they're thinking, "wow if he's trying to flirt with me he clearly doesn't realize that he's gay".

Your entire post... it's like mirror world to me. Good luck with your transition, seriously.
One time, I got called a ballbuster by some drunk friend-of-friend. I wasn't even that aggressive, he was just acting a fool and got butthurt that I had my mind about me. It was hilariously sad for everyone involved.

Define yourself and your views upon what you feel is right...and dismiss anyone who insists that you see yourself as they see you.

I know that feminists don't all have a thing against men, but I think feminism in general makes people feel some undeserved guilt. Like being told you should feel bad for breaking a rule you didn't know existed. And then instead of analyzing that feeling, they just retaliate and worsen the whole conflict. I'm not so great with social issues so I'm sorry if this sounds offensive.

I have my own views of myself, but it means jack from a crazy person. When I end up telling someone they can't keep it secret, like they don't understand what a closet is for. Then I get people trying to "correct" me in various ways. Sometimes people on the street see me as a young boy or like, a gay boy but I should have grown up by now, as an adult. So without some kind of physical change, it's all in my head. When I end up isolated over one thing, I'm gonna focus on that one thing I actually have control over.

"Wow, what a grade A piece of a**". I just pretended not to hear what he said, because I felt it objectified the girl.

I never know what to say to those either. It's just a stupid bluff. Probably heard it on TV and thought it was funny. It is sad when people have that attitude though. Not even for gender reasons, just for not being terrible reasons.

It's funny, sometimes I start looking at butts and boobs, then I'm like wait, I'm not a man, I see a female backside every day, why does it look so much better on someone else...

Sexism is really just bias based on sex, and you can be virtually any flavour under the rainbow and be a sexist person.

Yeah, there's many things lost in translation I guess, between sexes and individuals. Social science sure isn't for me, with how complicated people are... and my lack of life experience...

I think religion and isolation definitely contribute to it. I wasn't really raised for the small town culture. But it helps me to question things.

There are some places in the world that I couldn't handle at all so despite my complaints I'm thankful to have what luck landed me with.

Thanks so much for all the replies.