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I just got back from my therapist.

Started by suzifrommd, January 09, 2013, 07:38:06 PM

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suzifrommd

I just got back from my gender therapist.

I think he's a decent therapist. He's given me at least one piece of really good advice each time I've seen him. He's the only member of WPATH in our area

But I don't think he gets me. We don't see eye to eye on a lot of things. We tend to knock heads. For example, he's encouraging me to put off going full time for a couple years while my daughter stays in school. He discouraged me from HRT, saying that he thought I'd be "disappointed" with the effects (though he did refer me when I asked him to).

It's good for a therapist to challenge his patients, and he's not afraid to do that. An I certainly wouldn't have wanted to be paying US$160 for somone who just cheers me on for forty-five minutes.

But I'm feeling something is lacking there. Can't put my finger on it. Maybe because he's male. Or maybe because it seems like he challenges me on just about everything. There's some kind of connection I'm not feeling there, some kind of comfort level I haven't achieved with him.

Dr. Kraft wasn't my first choice of therapist. He did come well-recommended but so did Dr. Thomas, and I had a better impression of her when I spoke to her. I ended up with Dr. Kraft because my insurance said they would cover him.

I now have different insurance that covers them both equally. I'm thinking of seeing if I can get an appointment with Dr. Thomas, but no situation is perfect and, well better the devil you know, etc. Dr. Kraft has given me very good advice.

For anyone who's gotten this far into my post, thanks for listening to me dither. I don't really know where this is going.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Ms. OBrien CVT

I would switch therapists.  It sounds like he will not let you go forward because of your daughter, and maybe because of your age.

He sounds like he is not very versed in trans issues.

  
It does not take courage or bravery to change your gender.  It takes fear of living one more day in the wrong one.~me
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Nero

Hmm.
Well agfrommd, you're going to be with your therapist through some difficult issues coming up, transition, etc. It's important you be comfortable. From what I know of you, it's no surprise you might be more comfortable with a woman. And while there are some very emphathetic men, sounds like you've already tested this one out. I'd give the female doc a shot.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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spring0721

I third what the previous posters have said. It's very important for you to feel entirely open & comfortable with your therapist.  If you feel something is lacking then he's not the right one for you.   I know it will be discouraging to have to 'start all over' getting to know a new therapist and her getting your background, but in the end it would probably be worth it to try.  If you don't try you'll never know :) good luck
People are people, treat everyone with the same respect and courtesy that you want to receive.
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Constance

Another possibility could be that he's challenging you to see if you push back. He might be testing you in a way.

Marcia

Quote from: Constance on January 09, 2013, 08:23:52 PM
Another possibility could be that he's challenging you to see if you push back. He might be testing you in a way.
This is what I was thinking also. Maybe he is just seeing if you will push back. But as others have said if you feel that something else is missing then should try a different one.
-Mark & Marcia
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Elspeth

Quote from: agfrommd on January 09, 2013, 07:38:06 PM
But I don't think he gets me. We don't see eye to eye on a lot of things. We tend to knock heads. For example, he's encouraging me to put off going full time for a couple years while my daughter stays in school. He discouraged me from HRT, saying that he thought I'd be "disappointed" with the effects (though he did refer me when I asked him to).

On these two things, have you pressed him for specifics?

Is he concerned that your transition could create social problems for your daughter? Or is it something else?

In terms of "disappointment" what are the effect of HRT that matter most to you, and does he understand what those are, and which of them take priority for you?

Speaking only for myself (but my sense from people starting HRT seems to suggest I'm not alone) the appeal of HRT for me is at least as much emotional as it has anything to do with the external changes. I hate the effects of testosterone in my head at least as much or more than I am concerned that the effect estrogen will have on my body at this age is going to be limited. But my sense with male therapists has been that they are more interested in talking about the externals than the internals or the mental effects. Also, it's my sense that if they seem to get this aspect at all, it is more of a sympathetic nod of the head... I find it hard to get a sense that they get it in their gut, which is understandable, if they are attached at all to being male.

Not that I don't wish the body effects would be greater, but I know to expect they may be far more limited in those effects at my age. I want to be rid of overdosed testosterone (and this with a body that seems to be relatively insensitive to its effects in many ways... still, the libido and mood effects of T are something I find annoying, distracting and strongly dysphoric. I have in the past (for very short periods) "abused" estrogen and tried several of the "stupid transgirl tricks" that are common to many of us... I backed off only because with less T I think my mind cleared enough to appreciate that unsupervised dosing was dangerous and stupid.

The question to ask yourself is, does he hear what you are saying, or is he so stuck in his male assumptions that he's unable to understand you?

It's possible as others suggest, that he's "testing" you for a reaction, but it's almost simpler to just conclude that as a man he is unlikely to understand what you're saying. When it comes to discussing my feelings in any depth, I've always had female, non-therapist friends who I felt understood what I was able to say to them far more genuinely than anything I have so far gotten from a male therapist. I had a few sessions where one of my therapist's female associates took his place in his absence, and always found those sessions far more productive than those with the guy I allowed to continue treating me, probably for reasons that had mostly to do with my persistent feelings that I deserved to suffer for reasons I could never entirely express.
"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."
- Sonmi-451 in Cloud Atlas
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suzifrommd

Quote from: Ms. OBrien on January 09, 2013, 07:41:37 PM
It sounds like he will not let you go forward because of your daughter, and maybe because of your age.

I might have given the wrong impression. He is not into gatekeeping at all. He strictly adheres to the WPATH SOC and says that HRT etc. is entirely up to me. It's actually something I appreciate about him.

Quote from: Fat Admin on January 09, 2013, 08:06:00 PM
From what I know of you, it's no surprise you might be more comfortable with a woman.
Quote from: Elspeth on January 09, 2013, 10:42:57 PM
But my sense with male therapists has been that they are more interested in talking about the externals than the internals or the mental effects.

I think you both might be right. I hate to make choices purely on the basis of male/female (because I hate when people make assumptions about me based on looking like a male) but he does seem to miss the emotional currents of our interaction.

Quote from: Elspeth on January 09, 2013, 10:42:57 PM
On these two things, have you pressed him for specifics?

Is he concerned that your transition could create social problems for your daughter? Or is it something else?

In terms of "disappointment" what are the effect of HRT that matter most to you, and does he understand what those are, and which of them take priority for you?

Yes, he's been very specific. He talked about how HRT is not likely to improve my face or my body hair growth. I probed him to make sure I understood what he was saying. He insisted these are simply not things HRT will help with. This led me to post a poll on Susan's where around 80% of women who started HRT in middle age DID see some improvement in these areas.

As for my daughter, he's worried it will be hard for her. I'm worried too. The chief difference is that I see my roll as a parent as providing love and support and to teach my kids how to deal with problems rather than twisting my life around to make it as easy as possible on them.

Quote from: Elspeth on January 09, 2013, 10:42:57 PM
Speaking only for myself (but my sense from people starting HRT seems to suggest I'm not alone) the appeal of HRT for me is at least as much emotional as it has anything to do with the external changes. I hate the effects of testosterone in my head at least as much or more than I am concerned that the effect estrogen will have on my body at this age is going to be limited.

Well, for me it's more about wanting to have as much of the female experience as I can. I'll never have a body that's perfectly female, but I wont to try to get as close as I can. After I explained it better he did get it, but with a little more listening on his part, I think the misunderstanding needn't have happened.

Quote from: Constance on January 09, 2013, 08:23:52 PM
Another possibility could be that he's challenging you to see if you push back. He might be testing you in a way.

Constance, the same thing occurred to me. I find that possibility scary. I don't want to be "tested" by my therapist. I'm not a lab experiment. "Let's see if she'll jump thought this hoop..." I don't find that type of therapy helpful. I don't think that's what he's doing, but if I ever conclude otherwise, I'll be out of there in a flash.

Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Brooke777

You could have the most skilled, incredible therapist in the world, and not have the perfect fit for you. It is really difficult to find a therapist that clicks with you just right. There is nothing wrong with that. The relationship between therapist and patient is very important. I would suggest you don't read too much into it. Use this therapist only for as long as you have to till you can get in to see someone else. You might find that ultimately you want to go back which is fine as well. Therapists are used to patients switching therapists until they find the perfect match. You won't see any negative consequences.
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aleon515

Quote from: Constance on January 09, 2013, 08:23:52 PM
Another possibility could be that he's challenging you to see if you push back. He might be testing you in a way.

I don't know if he IS doing that. It isn't clear, but he seems to like to be in control, which is a little disturbing all by itself. Of course he may just really believe this stuff.
I hate therapists testing people. It is VERY common but it is troubling imo. It's a game. You know I go to a mental health counselor, not even a PhD, and he has not learned any of this kind of cr**. Also helps to me that he is trans.
Just my 2ยข.

--Jay
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Constance

My first therapist, the one I had seen when I wasn't sure if I was genderqueer or transsexual, seemed to like to challenge me. My current therapist, not so much.

Elspeth

Quote from: agfrommd on January 10, 2013, 09:46:58 AM
Yes, he's been very specific. He talked about how HRT is not likely to improve my face or my body hair growth. I probed him to make sure I understood what he was saying. He insisted these are simply not things HRT will help with. This led me to post a poll on Susan's where around 80% of women who started HRT in middle age DID see some improvement in these areas.

His sounds like the pro forma response. The gist I've gotten from just about everything I've ever heard from credible individuals going through transition at later ages (along with images shared by friends who've transitioned, who I've known face-to-face) is that the results are limited, which is something I suppose he needs to confirm that you've heard and understood. I probably wouldn't make more of it than that, and it sounds like, from your later comments in this post, that you were already aware of that, or at the very least confirmed it with your poll. His idea of "improvement" just might be more narrow than yours?

We do get changes, just not miracles. Though for some of us, any change that is consonant with our own sense of self may count as miraculous to us, subjectively?


QuoteAs for my daughter, he's worried it will be hard for her. I'm worried too. The chief difference is that I see my roll as a parent as providing love and support and to teach my kids how to deal with problems rather than twisting my life around to make it as easy as possible on them.

This generic bit of advice seems to me one of the bigger lies that's common from therapists, reflecting more of the problems in therapy circles than anything useful.

My ex has spent a great deal of money sending both my kids to various therapists to deal with some of what I tend to see as inevitable results of who their parents are... and not all of the atypical traits were mine. Both of us spent childhoods being the outliers... I'm not sure focusing on teaching social skills or the other efforts have done anything of positive significance for them, and may have sent subtle messages that their mother found them "defective" in some way. Granted, my apparently cisgendered daughter is the one who has had the worst time of it on this score. My trans son has rarely shown distress that he was a bit of a "weirdo" -- he comes by it honestly, and for most of childhood relished the ways he was different. He did eventually need to change schools, in part because his first relationship turned into a bit of a circus, I think (his girlfriend was not the most stable of girls, and my sense is that when they broke up she did some things to make his social status awkward and untenable in a school that was very fixated on appearing to be "normal."

I'll never be sure, but a part of me thinks that it would have been much more beneficial if my children had known openly that I was trans from a very early age. They might not have felt so isolated, and certainly would have been clear that at least one of their parents was unusual. I don't think it was much of a secret in any case that I was strange... it wasn't like I was going to be elected president of the local country club or any of the other hetero-normative institutions in our area, of which there were many. This traces back to a promise my ex made and was unable to fulfill, that when she completed residency, I was to get the pick about where we would live and raise children. There are a lot of places more cosmopolitan and open to differences that I wish we had lived, but that wasn't something either of us were able to control much. I do think a more urban and varied community would have been a better fit. My kids do have friends now, but most of them are children of artists and film/TV professionals living in the areas around Woodstock and SUNY/New Paltz, a decidedly more bohemian area where I know I would have probably found many more friends than I did here, even though we live within spitting distance of some well-known artist areas as well... somehow, though, they are very different. We're also not very far from where the Lindbergh baby was kidnapped.

QuoteWell, for me it's more about wanting to have as much of the female experience as I can. I'll never have a body that's perfectly female, but I wont to try to get as close as I can. After I explained it better he did get it, but with a little more listening on his part, I think the misunderstanding needn't have happened.

This, at least, sounds positive. It took me far longer than it should have to realize just how small a fraction of what I said in sessions was something my therapist actually understood the first time around. I think he had some strange desire to project a lot of his own issues onto me, and for some reason I allowed that. I may even have encouraged it, perhaps because of my general fear and hypervigilance when dealing with men?

"Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future."
- Sonmi-451 in Cloud Atlas
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aleon515

Quote from: Constance on January 10, 2013, 07:43:47 PM
My first therapist, the one I had seen when I wasn't sure if I was genderqueer or transsexual, seemed to like to challenge me. My current therapist, not so much.

I wasn't sure either if I was genderqueer or really ftm either initially I personally don't like it though. I dislike "games therapists play". But I would say I am not entirely sure this is what AG's therapist is doing. OTOH, I am not so sure either. Think some of it may be pro forma response (at least the hrt), I agree with that idea. The other comment, well not sure at all. Maybe you just don't match with him.

--Jay
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TanaSilver

If your insurance covers both, nothing wrong with seeing two therapists. I see two, and although one is my primary, I sometimes go to the other one as well. They each have their strengths and point of view of where they're coming from, so I get something from each. In fact, they have almost opposing points of view when it comes to dealing with being trans, and I find this useful. I also sometimes see a general therapist (I do this because the last one is covered by my insurance but the other two are not so I must pay for them out of pocket).

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suzifrommd

As a follow-up, I made an appointment with Dr. Thomas. She was amazing. Spent more than an hour getting to know me, asking probing questions and generally encouraging all aspects of my transition. She also told me that if her fee was burdensome, she could work something out. She was empathetic, supportive, and really understood what I was doing and why I was doing it. I called Dr. Kraft and thanked him for his good advice but told him I was going to try someone else.

The moral of the story, don't settle for a therapist you don't seem to click with.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Nero

Awesome hon! Glad you found someone you click more with.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Allana Lovins

Hey great post! I think this is a sensitive subject for you and knowing what your Medical/Mental professional is thinking is very important. You shouldn't be put in a position where you have to ask your therapist what He/she is thinking. They should have you fully aware of where they stand on the subject of your well being in any given situation. Thats what there paid to do, Not to make them sound like slaves of their profession but they need to make you feel comfortable or at least)if comfort isn't an option) leave you fully aware of what to expect of your coming or current medical or mental situation. If he / she cannot achieve that, then they need to be aware of it and fix it, otherwise you the sensitive Mtf patient will be better off switching to a different Provider... especially a female, she would almost automatically have to have empathy for your opinions, first thing, rather than opposition, and would seem to me as MUCH better option for your transition process, and if you need to(not saying you need to, or want to) start taking low doses of estrogen from a trusted/reviewed online pharmacy. I personally would not let anyone hold me back.
Super Cute, Girly, Loving, Beautiful, Transgender and loving it! :-*
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