Is a natural androgyne transition possible ?

[dreameragi]

Hello,

I have been thinking for some time about doing an androgyne transition, and along with some subtle changes in appearance, clothes, I am also exploring the possibility to (somewhat) altering the hormonal balance of my body, so I can perceive the universe in a way that seems more natural to me.

One way to go about this would be to meet a qualified endo and start with low dose hormones and T-blockers. However, I am also trying to understand if a natural androgyne transition is even possible.

I know that a natural transition is almost impossible when doing a full gender change because the potency of herbs is just not strong enough and taking high doses could also be dangerous. But when going just part of the distance as is desired for an androgyne transition, I am feeling a little more optimistic about trying the natural route. Another benefit is that many of the natural substances that would be involved are actually good for health also. So I am thinking if it is possible to do a transition in a way that would also be healthy for the body.

These are the things that came to my mind:

• Soy Milk (600 ml / day)
• Mint Tea (3 cups / day)
• Raspberry Tea (2 cups / day)
• Flax seeds
• Alpha Alpha
• Licorice

Each of these has a good list of health benefits and also have either a mild andrgen blocking effect or the effect of introducing phytoestrogens.

By themselves, each of these would not do much, but what would happen if we were to take all of them everyday. I am also not thinking of taking an obscenely high dose of anything. Just let's say 50% more than what someone would normally take.

Does anyone have any thoughts on how such a regime might work out ?

Thanks :-)

[Brightest After Dawn]

I don't think this site promotes doing any kind of transition without professional assistance, but I'll wait for someone more knowledgeable to comment. Supposedly having too much of most of these foods is very dangerous. I'm not sure if the levels you're suggesting would be, but I'm also not sure it would have any major effect. (DO NOT overdo the licorice though, that especially can easily be fatal).

Within levels considered safe by health authorities? Well, from my experience food will (obviously) affect your mood, and I've found some foods have put me in a more andro frame of mind, though maybe not to the extent that you desire. (I don't think it was the placebo effect either, since I did not know that they had estrogenic effects at the time). However, the only reason I noticed was that I was eating a diet that was inadvertently boosting testosterone levels before (to lose weight), and noticed a major difference when I took a day off the diet and consumed a large number of estrogenic foods by chance. The contrast was what made it stand out (and, sadly, I've never been able to lower my testosterone levels in the same way since, so maybe there were other things happening I wasn't aware of, and there were some negative side effects too like headaches and tiredness).

While I was very pleased with the results, I don't know if what I was doing was safe (again I wasn't doing it on purpose, so it's hard to say). I don't think experimenting with food can hurt, but it must be at levels that are considered safe by health authorities, and if it helps you then great. But foods alone can only do so much, especially when eaten at healthy levels (as they always should be).

Also, I understand that there can be an aversion to things that seem like drugs and that we feel safer around "natural" foods, but this isn't always the case. "Natural, whole foods" doesn't automatically mean safer, even if we seem to feel more comfortable with them. I know it can be hard for us to find gender therapists who understand andro issues, so I understand the temptation from that angle too, but perhaps members on this site can point you in the right direction?

[Hideyoshi]

I went through the whole 'natural' phase when I was 19-21.  That stopped when I was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis (genetic) and natural diet/remedies did absolutely nothing despite all the promises in the world.

Don't waste your time or money with 'natural' alternatives.  There's a reason why it's called 'alternative' medicine.  If it had reliable results, it would just be called 'medicine.'  If that list you gave was just as effective (or slightly less) and safer than synthetic hormones, doctors would use that instead of hormones.

[Pica Pica]

I can't see much wrong with drinking raspberry, mint and liquorice teas - whether they do anything to a person, I have no idea but they are tasty caffeine free alternatives to black tea or coffee which are enjoyable to guzzle down.

[ativan]

I left my opinion and more on the other thread about Androgyn and HRT.
Please be careful about this. It's not something to just play around with.
Ativan

[dreameragi]

Thanks to everyone who replied. I was thinking of a natural transition because I thought I could do it myself, and all the herbs had some good health benefits too.

But now I think I will meet a therapist and an endo. The naturals might have side effects too, and will most probably go unnoticed because I will not be checking for anything. It is probably much safer to use proven medicines and do this under proper supervision.

[ativan]

I don't know if the proven meds are any better or safer than natural alternatives.
I'm all for not using some things, just for the side effects, as you also can get other effects as well.
The problem is in the individual. Do You trust Yourself to use them as best they should be used?
Will you make sure that you are getting what you need?
Check to make sure you're not getting something bad for you?

I look at this as being as important as having surgery.
You are, after all, changing some of your body parts.
There are a lot of meds out there for brain chemistry.
These have their share of side effects and don't work the same for different people.
I know, I've taken my share of them. They suck, until you find a combination that works.
This took me years to get worked out, and it is still an on going process.
This holds true to HRT as well.
As things move along, how you do it will change, because you will change.
You have to stay on top of it, nobody else will know better than you, what is changing.

So I tend to look at the whole thing as having the same importance as surgery to your body and brain.
Just as you have to be proactive in making the right decisions for those, so you should for HRT.
The single most important thing about all of this is,...You.

Even Dr's will use their own tried and true methods that have worked in the past for their patients.
You're not one of those people, you are someone new and they don't really know how it will work for you.
Even therapists can be a pain in the ass, as they will do the same thing.
These are professionals, but they rely on mistakes as well as anything, to learn their trade.

Always the smart thing to do, is to be as knowledgeable as possible to assure that you will not end up a lab rat.
I bug the sh*t out of my Dr's and therapists. But they don't mind, in fact they appreciate my feedback.
This is what will be your contribution to the whole process. To be a part of it, to be consumed with it.

I might lecture to much about this, but I have learned from my mistakes as well.

Good for you to use everything you can to be safe.
In the long run, you will have less problems.
You will worry less about what you are doing and get on with what you really want.
To be You.

Ativan

[Jamie D]

I don't think this site promotes doing any kind of transition without professional assistance, but I'll wait for someone more knowledgeable to comment. Supposedly having too much of most of these foods is very dangerous. I'm not sure if the levels you're suggesting would be, but I'm also not sure it would have any major effect....

Just a word about policy.  As botanicals and supplements are legal in most jurisdictions, we don't discourage their discussion.  By way of example, if former cultures had not used willow bark for pain relief, aspirin would never have been discovered.

Self-medication with prescription drugs is covered under Terms of Service Rule #8.

However, some of these herbal supplements are so over-hyped, especially those which allege breast growth, that we don't want our membership to be in any way duped.  There is a word about those substances in a sticky post on the HRT board.

[Brightest After Dawn]

Just a word about policy.  As botanicals and supplements are legal in most jurisdictions, we don't discourage their discussion.  By way of example, if former cultures had not used willow bark for pain relief, aspirin would never have been discovered.

Self-medication with prescription drugs is covered under Terms of Service Rule #8.

However, some of these herbal supplements are so over-hyped, especially those which allege breast growth, that we don't want our membership to be in any way duped.  There is a word about those substances in a sticky post on the HRT board.

Thanks for the reply.

[dreameragi]

Ativan, Thank you so much for this wonderful reply.

I don't know if the proven meds are any better or safer than natural alternatives.
I'm all for not using some things, just for the side effects, as you also can get other effects as well.
The problem is in the individual. Do You trust Yourself to use them as best they should be used?
Will you make sure that you are getting what you need?
Check to make sure you're not getting something bad for you?

I think I can do that. I do have the discipline to go very slowly and introspect enough at every step, before moving forward. I was inclined to the natural meds for a couple of reasons. One is they all have some beneficial effects as well, and I was hoping they would do good. The second (which I probably did not mention clearly) is the embarrassment and humiliation of not only having to explain to at least a few doctors why I want to partially feminize myself, but also having to explain to other doctors if I need to see them for other regular/routine stuff (fever, allergies, other sicknesses).

So I tend to look at the whole thing as having the same importance as surgery to your body and brain.
Just as you have to be proactive in making the right decisions for those, so you should for HRT.
The single most important thing about all of this is,...You.

Even Dr's will use their own tried and true methods that have worked in the past for their patients.
You're not one of those people, you are someone new and they don't really know how it will work for you.
Even therapists can be a pain in the ass, as they will do the same thing.
These are professionals, but they rely on mistakes as well as anything, to learn their trade.

Always the smart thing to do, is to be as knowledgeable as possible to assure that you will not end up a lab rat.
I bug the sh*t out of my Dr's and therapists. But they don't mind, in fact they appreciate my feedback.
This is what will be your contribution to the whole process. To be a part of it, to be consumed with it.

I might lecture to much about this, but I have learned from my mistakes as well.

Good for you to use everything you can to be safe.
In the long run, you will have less problems.
You will worry less about what you are doing and get on with what you really want.
To be You.

Ativan

Yes doctors will also do a lot of guesswork, and I will have to closely collaborate with them. I guess that is fine - though I just hope I can work with someone who is understanding.

To be me is what I really want - and god knows how difficult that is. I was at a party recently, where I was standing and watching many people dance. I saw the women and thought, I am so much like them, but kind of different also. Different enough to maybe not be a woman. I saw the guys and thought, even though I am born a guy, I am so different from them. But maybe a bit similar, at least in the desire to dance with a woman, and maybe a few other things as well. Then a woman walks past me, and I wish I could summon the courage to strike up a conversation with her. Then I look at her face and intuitively feel that she might prefer to be with a real man (whatever that means).

On the one hand I want to be myself, and on the other hand it feels like a sentence of isolation and being single for life, and if I were not to be myself then I deal with a constant sense of something being wrong.

Along with this I am not even mentioning the amount of strange looks I get for just one feminine gesture, that I feel if I went further this path, it would surely lead to much humiliation and isolation. And yet I do feel that it is important to be true to myself.

Not an easy path to walk on... let's see how it proceeds :-)