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Why do some think passing isn't important? (rant)

Started by muuu, March 09, 2013, 09:53:21 AM

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muuu

This has been upsetting for a while, when lots of other TS people say that passing isn't important and there are other more important things to transition. What exactly is so important besides passing? Why wouldn't passing be the only thing about transition? I just don't get it... If somebody is in a state where passing doesn't matter, they'll just automatically think like that. If they aren't you shouldn't try to convince them into thinking like that.

If I'm not seen as female by others, as cis, then I that's a failed transition to me, I gained absolutely nothing from it. Any changes HRT could do for me emotionally wouldn't change a thing.
The point with transitioning is to be perceived by others as female, not by oneself (I think you should already feel that way to begin with). I do want to be included in society, I want to be able to be social. I can't do that, because I look male and is perceived by others as male. I want to live in the same world as others, not in my own little world.
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Sara Thomas

While I can certainly understand your point of view, I can just as easily understand the point of view of the folks you describe as being unconcerned with passing.

I'm sure that there are many reasons why some folks might not put the highest priority on being able to pass - and I'm sure that those reasons might be centered on realistic expectations.

You might look at it this way, also... not everyone feels the need for a Porsche, some folks might reckon that an old truck will reach the same destination (sans valet).

Take care - Sadie
I ain't scared... I just don't want to mess up my hair.
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Eve87

Transition doesn't have to be about "looking cis", though. Sometimes it's just about finding a way to not be miserable. Improving quality of life and all that.

I mean, I pass well enough and I'm extremely grateful for that; mostly because of safety concerns. Being visibly trans is just plain dangerous. I know a few trans women who aren't that concerned about passing and frankly I respect that a lot, even if I worry for what could happen to them.

I really hate the term. "Passing" as if being visibly trans is a failure. It's also such a ridiculous expectation to put on trans people. I mean trans youth with enough problems on their minds being told that to be successful and safe they have to NOT look like what they are? Really? For some of us that's relatively easy - I got ma'amed as soon as I got a haircut and plucked my eyebrows. For others it's just not that feasible - dumb genetics. It's completely unfair to put this burden on trans people instead of just expecting cis people to accept us.

TLDR; People transition with wildly varying goals
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Alainaluvsu

The point is to be yourself. Passing is a plus, not the point.
To dream of the person you would like to be is to waste the person you are.



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Shantel

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on March 09, 2013, 10:23:57 AM
The point is to be yourself. Passing is a plus, not the point.

This single sentence says it all!

Passing is something to work toward although it may not always be feasible for everyone, and I suppose because of that they, as well as myself, sometimes makes light of it rather than just breaking down and crying.
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Beth Andrea

There's no such thing as a "failed transition."

We are transitioning not for the sake of other people (i.e., whether we "pass" or not), but for ourselves.

Some of us can pass without even trying...others have to try and they might or might not...and there are some who simply will not "pass", no matter what. Yet, they are happy, because their goal was to be a woman or man.

They have achieved that goal...so they did not "fail." Yes, all of us would LIKE to pass, but perhaps instead of damning (sp?), perhaps you might have a "there, but for the grace of god, go I" thought process.
...I think for most of us it is a futile effort to try and put this genie back in the bottle once she has tasted freedom...

--read in a Tessa James post 1/16/2017
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Heather

Do I want to pass yes! But I would place more importance on how you feel about who you are. I don't pass right now. But that does not stop me from being myself nor will it ever.
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tomthom

I fin it very important. I'm fine with me, but I want people to immediately know the me that I perceive. I want to be seen Asa woman because that's how I feel inside, and I don't want to go through some long lecture with them about ring trans or anything like that to fully et my point and stance as a human being across. That and I want to be pretty. I want to flirt effortlessly. I want to have days here I can really e one of the girls, in makeup or out of it.
"You must see with eyes unclouded by hate. See the good in that which is evil, and the evil in that which is good. Pledge yourself to neither side, but vow instead to preserve the balance that exists between the two."
― Hayao Miyazaki
Practicality dominates me. I can be a bit harsh, but I mean well.
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Laura91

I'm the sort of person that looks andro and I will always be "in between" for the rest of my life. It's just the way it is. Most of the time I get the usual "ma'am" and "miss". But sometimes I hear people say "is that a girl or a guy?" I had one rare occurrence where a teenage girl said something about "a guy going in the woman's restroom". Nothing ever came of this, though, as far as any authorities getting involved and her friends that with her actually told her to shut up so, whatever. I just rolled my eyes and went on my way.

Sure, if I had money I would have some mild FFS done but I don't have the cash for that. I am who I am and if other people can't deal with it they can kiss 1% of my bum.
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Alainaluvsu

Transition IS about finding yourself. It's not what it's ALL about but that is the first step. Transition is ALL about being yourself. Some can't pass, but everybody can be themselves. Just because you don't pass doesn't mean you're a failure, but if you can't be yourself then you lose one of lifes' biggest battles.

I know how it's important to many people and even necessary to some, but I also can understand that not only is it impossible for others but how people would just rather live their lives than to worry about their looks 24/7.
To dream of the person you would like to be is to waste the person you are.



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Laura91

Quote from: Alainaluvsu on March 09, 2013, 10:43:00 AM
I know how it's important to many people and even necessary to some, but I also can understand that not only is it impossible for others but how people would just rather live their lives than to worry about their looks 24/7.

Yeah, worrying about ANYTHING in excess WILL completely screw you up. I found this out over the last several months dealing with (and still dealing with) various non-trans related medical issues.
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Alainaluvsu

Just because people can see through the makeup doesn't mean they're going to treat you as if you're male. They're not going to treat you less than a girl, necessarily, either. Nobody in my life who knows me treats me like a guy, not even my mom, my sister, and my brother who have known me as male for 29 years. People treat you how you let them.

As far as if you wanted to be yourself you'd just end up being seen as gay... well then maybe yourself IS male. Maybe it's not your looks, it's your personality.
To dream of the person you would like to be is to waste the person you are.



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Alainaluvsu

lol... keep thinking that and see where that gets you.

Most women aren't that exclusive. Also, if you feel bad about not being able to be in that situation, go home and shower. Problem solved.
To dream of the person you would like to be is to waste the person you are.



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Alainaluvsu

Quote from: Bella on March 09, 2013, 11:05:16 AM
These people would probably react similarly to cis-men and women doing stuff that was abnormal for their birth sex.

Just a side note: I believe that while a lot of gender roles are socially constructed, I truly feel there are biological differences in male and female behaviour patterns, which is why these roles work for so many people.

That part I do believe. If you aren't feminine, many people WILL shrug you off like you're weird, but I think that's because you wont fit into the gender norm and not because you're trans.

EDIT: Not saying it's right, just reality. I still stand by my belief that transition IS about being yourself and not about looking a certain way.
To dream of the person you would like to be is to waste the person you are.



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Padma

It's clear that different people mean different things by "passing", and place different importance on it (whatever it is to each of them) and see it as important in different ways and for different reasons. So I think it's reasonable to expect people to see it differently from you. I'm against others telling you how important (or not important) it should be to you, but that works both ways - none of us should be legislating on each others' experience or path of transition, though it's okay to ask questions, so long as they don't have condemnation built into them.

Personally, I consider "passing" to be the thing I spent nearly 50 years doing, back when I was trying to convince everyone I was a man - and I'm done with that, I'll just be myself now. But I'm aware that I am privileged to live in a country where being trans has legal protection, and in a part of that country where people for the most part will simply accept me unquestioningly (or so it seems, so far). I look like the kind of woman I've always wanted to look like (although I still suffer from Persistent Penis Syndrome, until later this year - and would of course prefer to be in my 20's and svelte and all the rest of it, but we make do).

So much of it depends on what kind of woman you are (since we're talking about MTF transition here), and what's involved in looking the way you want to look, want to be seen. So many variables.
Womandrogyne™
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tomthom

So what I take away from this topic is that there is both personal transition and public transition, both perfectly valid and for the most part intertwined, but diverging on many issues as well.
"You must see with eyes unclouded by hate. See the good in that which is evil, and the evil in that which is good. Pledge yourself to neither side, but vow instead to preserve the balance that exists between the two."
― Hayao Miyazaki
Practicality dominates me. I can be a bit harsh, but I mean well.
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Natkat

giving my 2 cents, passing is sure alot more easy, and less dangerous and frustrating. no doubts
however its not the most important point point in life,

even when not passing can be hard and very frustrating, being yourself and having that accept from yourself as well as your friends and other suporters is the most important. you or they wouldnt not care of your look but just see you who you are. I lived alot of of times with this, when I didnt pass. sure I got into more troubles but around my friends I would be myself and accepted male. not passing isnt the same as not being viewed as a man or a woman.



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Misato

Obsession & concern with passing, I've seen it bring more pain than joy which is why I'm meh about it.  I could obsess about all the things about my appearance that I feel betray my male past, but I don't because doing so would make me unhappy.  I've seen the goal of passing become this never ending list of, "If I get this fixed I'll be happy" and I have no interest in doing that.  I'd rather live.

Transition, for me, was and is about becoming a better person.  I also don't know what all cisfolk think about trans people when they clock us so I will not cast aspersions about them by assuming all won't understand me as a woman.  I'd rather give each individual I meet a chance to be a winner knowing full well I'll meet some true losers. 

By giving cispeople the benefit of the doubt I then don't feel like I'm under constant judgement or attack.  That helps keep me happy and feeling secure in my womanhood.
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Tristan

I have to agree with everyone its not everything but for some it seems to be the main focus :(
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Misato

Quote from: Padma on March 09, 2013, 11:12:30 AM
Persistent Penis Syndrome

I think we call nuggets like this one "knee slappers".  Thanks for the laugh!
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