When Has Religions/Spiritual People Stick Up For LGBTs?

[DriftingCrow]

I thought this could be an interesting thread, since it can often seen like many religions are anti-LGBT and that we don't have a place in religions. Many of us have to put up with "religious" people telling us we're sinners and going to hell, etc. and that can cause some hard feelings against religious or spiritual people and institutions. Despite all the bad there is, there's also some religious people and institutions that stand with us that might be going unnoticed.

So, just put up a link or tell a story on how a religion, a religious person, or spiritual person has stood up for LGBT people or accepted us.

Here's mine:

1. This article http://blogs.sacbee.com/crime/archives/2011/06/sikhs-offer-rew.html explains how a Sikh temple put up a $1,000 reward for information that leads to the arrest of a man who attacked a gay man and yelled homophobic slurs at him. (I haven't found a follow-up article, so I am not sure if anyone found the attacker).

2. I found this video on a LGBT Sikh site (sarbat.net) and I though Guruka Singh (the dude in white) had an interesting answer to whether it is a problem to be gay and a Sikh:

3. According to the National Catholic Reporter 93% of American Catholics (on 2011 data I am presuming) support transgender rights (though they don't say what "transgender rights" are in the article, it could mean so many things to different people), which is much higher than other Christian groups in the USA. http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/majority-american-catholics-support-transgender-rights

[Anatta]

Kia Ora LearnedHand,

This is a Theravada Buddhist monk's take on Gay Marriage...



Metta Zenda 🙂

[DriftingCrow]

Wiqomun Kuan Yin,

That's a long one, I'll have to watch it tomorrow, but it sounds fascinating! Thanks for posting, I am sure others will enjoy it to. 

Henry

[Anatta]

Wiqomun Kuan Yin,

That's a long one, I'll have to watch it tomorrow, but it sounds fascinating! Thanks for posting, I am sure others will enjoy it to. 

Henry

Kia Ora LH,

It is  a bit long, but I guess one can sit down with a nice cup of tea and chocolate biscuits and watch it  😉

He breaks it down to what Buddhism is all about...

Metta Zenda 🙂

[Shang]

- In MS, a Marriage Equality rally was held on the grounds of an Episcopal church.  We had received permission to be on the grounds, but several of the church members weren't happy and said we had to leave.  Well, my friend called the cardinal [or whatever is the term for the head of the Episcopal Church of a certain area] and he said "I gave you permission so you can stay there." 

He backed up Marriage Equality and the local LGBT+ group.

- The North American Old Catholic Church also supports LGBT+ rights and recently a transman was ordained within that church.

Not every religion or spirituality is going to go "Omg, you're gay!  You're a sinner and going to Hell!"  Many are very open minded and willing to back up the LGBT+ community. 🙂

[Kevin Peña]

Where's Annah? She's a transgender priest!  😮

[DriftingCrow]

Kuan Yin:

I watched the video today during lunch, and loved it! It was great and the monk was really funny.

BTW I found this painting of Guru Nanek speaking with a Sufi saint who was known for wearing a type of clothes that bachlorettes would wear to attract men back in the day. There's a little story that goes with it (http://www.sarbat.net/2009/02/guru-nanak-and-the-b40-janamsakhi-the-meeting-with-sheikh-sharaf/), which overall seems to say Guru Nanek didn't really see it as a problem or that it was wrong for a male to wear female clothes (but you'll also see in that short article that this meeting most likely didn't happen unless I guess it was another Sufi?).

[Jess42]

I don't think it is neccisarily religions or spiritual peaple but society as a whole. The perceptions of society changes as to what is socially accptable/unacceptable behavior. These perceptions will and do change over time, just most of the time not fast enough though. Kind of like getting in a swimming pool filled with water that is a little too cold. Not all at once but a little bit at a time.

I am Spiritual. I am a learner of Christ's teachings, not Christian in the perception and common belief system of such. If I had to label myself I would call myself a Gnostic, the nearest and sometimes considered mystic form of Christianity before the Roman Empire took it over. Why? Because I believe in reincarnation, human duality in being both physical and spirtual in nature, I look within my own Soul or Psyche, that Christ was not celebate and Mary Magdeline was an equal apostle and possibly more to Christ than what is revealed. There are whole books left out of the New Testement such as the Book of Mary and the Book of Juda becasue the were considered irrelevent. Irrelevent by who? Those that put all these writings together and combined them to what we call the bible today. I am also a learner of Buddha. I also respect nature. I try not to kill any life form unless it is used for food or for self preservation. Spiders in the house, I take them out to a bush, poionous snakes, I put in a bag and let them loose farther from me. I also repect that I can be prey to another preditor. I hate to see acres and acres leveled just for a multiplex, mall, real estate or whetever else pop up. Anyway, that's just a little background of me.

As for ->-bleeped-<-, there are cultures that have considered hermaphrodites a complete being. Hermes and Aphrodite occupying the same physical vessel. Bet you can't gues from the names what culture. There are other cultures that that have accepted ->-bleeped-<- and even married them and accepted them as a wives(MTF). Joan of Arc(FTM) was a mighty warrior and according to the church, talked to God. That same God told her to break the gender roles and cut her hair, dress like male and wage war like a male, in other words be a man even though she was a woman. The church was fine with it, as long as there was a use for her. When she started being percieved as a threat to old belief systems, she was executed. Funny though, the same church that executed her now calls her a saint.

I don't want anyone standing up for me, I would rather stand up for myself. I don't mind helping someone else stand on their own and will even let them lean on me if need be. This goes for everyone no matter how they identify themselves. 

I don't long for acceptance. I don't even ask for acceptance. Some will accept me, others won't.  Usually, in the case of Joan of Arc, there is something they want from you and then the minute you challenge their percieved ideals, morally, vocally or Spiritually, or they don't percieve you as useful to their own agendas, they will go back to persecuting you. I would rather have mutual respect no matter the perceptions at the time, they still don't have to like me or except me but rather respect from others to live my life the way I see fit, think the way I want to think, be seen as an individual with just as many possibilties as there are stars in the universe.

Anyway, that's just the way I think and believe. Please keep in mind though that not all Spiritual people are religious or even come close to any categories and not all religious people are Spiritual.

[DriftingCrow]

Hey Jess:

Thanks for sharing your views.

I am not sure if you misunderstood my intentions on posting this topic, and I do keep in mind that not all religious people are spiritual and vice versa; there are plenty of people who just go to church/temple for the motions without the spiritual fervor, etc. I hope you don't think I insulted you or something, sometimes it's hard to tell in forums when we can't just speak face to face.

I do agree that it is society as a whole and not just religions and/or spiritual people who are nonaccepting, though I think that is slowly changing, right now we have the greatest support we've had in modern (or even ancient I'd presume) history for support of same-sex marriage here in the US and other LGBT rights. Religions sometimes slowly follows the trends in what is happening in the secular world as perceptions slowly change. That was more the point of the post -- as we've seen here on this forum and outside of the forum in the wider LGBT community, sometimes LGBT people feel as if religious and/or spiritual people are behind the times and are trying to keep them out of their community unless they change and give up their LGBT ways. I though it would be interesting if we could share any type of acceptance we've seen in various religious communities that we might normally overlook.

I can understand not wanting people to stand up for you, and I think there is a time and place to fight for your rights unassisted. My point of view though thinks having non-LGBT people show us their support is a good thing, because I often think of the Jewish Holocaust and that saying which I am probably going to badly paraphrase that goes something like "first they go for the Jews, but I am not a Jew so I stay silent, then they go for the Gypsies, but I am not Gypsy so I stay silent, then they come for me, who will speak for me?" I believe our world is full of injustice and that we all need to stick together and help overcome injustice, even if we're not the ones directly affected. Perhaps that's one of the reasons why I am attracted to Sikism, because they take overcoming injustice very strongly. The Sikh Khanda (the religious symbol) shows that, by having a sword in the symbol to symbolize our need to overcome injustice and to fight for what's right. That's also part of the reason why Sikhs wear turbans and carry a kirpan, they want to look distinctive as a sort of uniform, so people who need help can easily spot out who they can go to for help.

I think having a non-LGBT monk, prient, religious advisor who says "it's okay to be gay and Buddhist, Christian, Sikh, whatever" is great, because it can help influence those in the congregation who may think that it's incompatible or a sin slowly overcome their prejudices. I also think that it is especaily important when other influential people in that same community say that it is incompatible with the religion to come out and stand up for what you believe is just, such as when some well-respected people in the Sikh religion in Amritsar, Punjab India came out and said you can't be gay and Sikh and even urged American Sikhs to pressure Obama into enforcing DOMA, so I think it was a good think that Guruka Singh who has a large North America, British, and even Punjabi following came out and said that it doesn't matter if you're gay.

I am also not longing for acceptance, I feel if someone doesn't agree with my lifestyle that it doesn't mean that I can't be part of the community, or that I need to change my ways. But, if someone does surprise me with acceptance, than that's completely awesome. I agree that we need mutual respect to avoid any kind of abuse from unspoken motives, but I thought acceptance was at least a first step towards respect? This was meant mainly to acknowledge those who do have mutual respect for LGBT people, or at least have said they accept us.

Henry  🙂

[Jess42]

NO NO NO. You in no way, no how offended me. Pretty much there is nothing that offends me. I am sorry if that last little bit came out wrong it was more of a disclaimer for what I wrote. Like you said sometimes it is hard to judge from words alone.

What I was trying to convey is that we are nothing new and have been around for a lot longer than society is willing to see. That we don't eat children, kill cats, are not going to magically turn other folks into the opposite gender or gay and so on. That there was a transgender hero that helped save a whole country and God more or less told her to be transgender and the church supported it. And more often that not when someone states that they are on yourside and really care about your rights and points of view that they really want something from you. Polititians for votes. Companies for money. Religious establishments for followers and the list goes on. I tend to ramble on at times but the old saying of beware of wolves in sheep's clothing is a good rule to live by.

When an establishments such as a church pops up and says all of a sudden, we welcome transgendered people open heartedly, I have to ask myself why all of a sudden the doctrine and beliefs have changed and what do they want. If I dig around a little and can't find any reason other than true acceptance, I may visit sort of anonomously as my physical gender. I would ask questions and so on. The next time I may even hint around to me being transgendered and judge their reactions again. But until I can stand in front of them either as male or female or combinations of both and there are no snickers and looks of abhorration. I just don't trust it. Too many times people speak one way and act another.

Since very few people know me on a personal level all they see is a male with long hair. Publicly I dress the part. Another transgender that can read people might pick up subtle hints but believe me, that is rare. My skin is a little too clean, most of the time. My hair isn't always a mess, most of the time and so on. A lot of women envy me for my hair, I know because I hear it all the time. Let them be jeolous, I rather enjoy it since I can't wear nail polish and envy them for that. But anyway, I can fit pretty good into society and society doesn't suspect a thing. Even the so-called most open-minded in society still has hang ups. I hear crap like this all the time; "Man, did you see that, I didn't know what to call'em." I will quip back and ask, "Were they dressed like a man or woman?" And they'll say one or the other and I'll tell them to adress them like they are dressed. All this comes from people that see themselves as open-minded. Me personally, have been called both. I find niether offensive. On the phone a lot of times, my voice isn't overly masculine, poeple will call me ma'am or if they are trying to get my attention from behind.

When we start getting transgendered of all levels appointed to all positions in government. And be able to dress how they want to dress and so on. I might believe that things are truly changing. I thought Obama, with whom I don't neccisarily agree with, would change that with all the feel good hope and change. But he like anyone else needs our vote so we hear the same old, "I feel your pain" and "You should have equality" and so on. When I can see a MTF or FTM in his cabinette, then I might believe that he and or all the others that need our votes might have our best interests at heart.  As far as that goes though, when I see a long haired straight male, I might start looking for the sun to come out tomorrow.

As for me, never worry about offending me because the only thing I find offensive is body odor and the smell of stinky farts. Oh and a lot of Hollywood stereotypical stuff when it comes to LGBT people. Funny how the seemingly most open-minded people in the U.S. drag us out in the public square in the way of movie and TV screens for laughs or entertainment purposes and try to portray who we are but ends up just reinforces the same old sterotypes. That, my dear friend, screams at me like a banshee that they haven't a clue of who we really are even though they claim to.

Sorry, I tend to ramble too much. Again no one ever worry about offending me.

peace and love to all,
Jessica.

[Natkat]

Old thread but I post here anyway.
--
theres this priest in my country, his openly gay sure sure its been a fuss in the media together with other non-tradition things.

he have stood up for gay people, ex one time there where a prist in a town called aalborg who refused to buried a lesbian woman.
When he head of that he put a sign outside his chuch who say. "here we will even buried stupid prists from aalborg!!"
http://multimedia.ekstrabladet.dk/archive/00791/28682795_-_19_05_20_791054m.jpg

as denmark got gay marrige he also put out a big ranbow flag on his chursh
http://jacobinesblog.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/trans_regnbueflag_kirke.jpg
----
Personally religion for me dosent mean ignorance.
My religion is love and thats how I expect and hope others to be as well, whatever your christian, muslim, hindu or what you may be.

[DriftingCrow]

My religion is love and thats how I expect and hope others to be as well, whatever your christian, muslim, hindu or what you may be.

You're quite lovely Natkat  🙂