Breasts

[Sophia]

I wonder sometimes if transgendered people don't have a greater interest in their breasts than the female populous as a whole. While breasts are a very great signifier of femininity and associated with feminine sexuality, femininity is certainly more than the things hanging from your chest. A huge percentage of women have quite small breasts

I suggest you go ask some of those small-breasted women how they feel about it.  Most of the ones I've met have obsessed about it just as much was we do.

I noticed that two. A lot of these women generally get mocked by their peers for having smaller breasts too, generally aggravating the resentment and self esteem damage.

[Karla B]

Hi ! I'm new here and I'm sorry for bringing this topic to surface again. Newbies! what do ya expect! he,he 
I just turned 47 and started hormones 7 months ago. Keira was talking about something that interested me.  She had mentioned that low HGH levels in us older folk, slows down developement.
I was wondering If taking growth hormone releasers combined with the estrogen would help?  You can get these at any health food store and they claim that it can reverse some of the aging process.

[Sophia]

Hi ! I'm new here and I'm sorry for bringing this topic to surface again. Newbies! what do ya expect! he,he 
I just turned 47 and started hormones 7 months ago. Keira was talking about something that interested me.  She had mentioned that low HGH levels in us older folk, slows down developement.
I was wondering If taking growth hormone releasers combined with the estrogen would help?  You can get these at any health food store and they claim that it can reverse some of the aging process.

I would definately suggest talking to a doctor about that. Although I can't be sure, I thought that too much human growth hormone at certain ages can be very very dangerous.

[Berliegh]

Hi ! I'm new here and I'm sorry for bringing this topic to surface again. Newbies! what do ya expect! he,he 
I just turned 47 and started hormones 7 months ago. Keira was talking about something that interested me.  She had mentioned that low HGH levels in us older folk, slows down developement.
I was wondering If taking growth hormone releasers combined with the estrogen would help?  You can get these at any health food store and they claim that it can reverse some of the aging process.

I would definately suggest talking to a doctor about that. Although I can't be sure, I thought that too much human growth hormone at certain ages can be very very dangerous.

I've heard this idea before regarding growth hormones.....I've been on HRT and anti - androgens for nearly 7 years and cannot achieve any proper breast growth.......is this common?........anyway I have a breast operation booked soon but would prefer to be able to grow my own.......has anyone any suggestions?

[Karla B]

I've heard this idea before regarding growth hormones.....I've been on HRT and anti - androgens for nearly 7 years and cannot achieve any proper breast growth.......is this common?........anyway I have a breast operation booked soon but would prefer to be able to grow my own.......has anyone any suggestions?
[/quote]
Hi Berliegh
I don't really have any suggestions because I'm looking into this myself. I do believe that nutrition can play a large part in developement and I'm trying to gather up some information about this. Example; I have read some reports that certain Amino Acids can release your "bodys own" growth hormones.
An Amino Acid called Lysine can enhance the effect of an anti-Androgen like Propecia.
Another Amino acid called L Tyrosine can enhance moods and aid in the production of thyroid hormones.

What I feel helps me is, taking a break from the hormones once and a while, like one week off, four weeks on . Taking them day after day after day for a long period,I believe that our bodys can get used to the hormones, which can cause them to be less effective. So what happens is your prescription gets changed or you're put on a higher dose.
Besides that, it also gives the liver a bit of a break.
I have heard of other people using this methode and claim that it works quite well.
Then again, This is only my oppinion based on the information that I've  gathered and what I feel works for me.
I do take the L tyrosine and Lysine as supplements and try to stick to good nutritious meals containing enough protien, whole grains and good fats like canola, safflower and olive oils on salads.

[Keira]

Taking a break does nothing, the reason you've got growth went you start back is because you've started losing a bit when E stopped.

Growth hormones do influence breast growth speed (but not final result), but since growth hormone's effect is system, its not something you want to take as a supplement (bodybuilders take them and they wind up looking like cro-magnons because the face bones grew faster).

Not sure about lysine or whatever's effect on growth hormone, my feeling is that its level is predetermined by heredity and there's not much that can be done to change its initial level and its decline speed.

[Berliegh]

The bottom line is I want to avoid this breast operation I have coming up and try and make some kind of fast effort to get my own breast growth sufficiently to not need a boob job..

[Berliegh]

I started out on various herbals and got definite results.  Then a GG turned me on to Bovine Ovary and I've been taking that now instead of the PE's.  I supplement the BO with Saw Palmetto which is an Anti-Androgen and several very strong cups of pure spearmint tea which is also an AA and has been documented to reduce body hair on GG's..

In 7 months my body has feminized a good deal.  I have no sharp lines, no muscles, nothing about my body resembles a male body anymore excluding the plumbing.  From the neck down, I'm very much female in appearance.  But I still have a way to go.  But things ARE improving day by day and I'm very, very pleased..

My boobs are without any shadow of a doubt female breasts.  The past few weeks I've noticed a sudden growth spurt, my legs look VERY feminine now and my boobs are starting to plump up.  They have been very conical in shape for a long time until just recently when this little spurt of growth kicked in.  Right now they are just under a B cup and predict that if they continue to develope at the current rate I'll be a B+ before the year is out.  I see no reason I can't hit a C cup by Jan 09 which will be two years.  Even now though, they are to the point where they noticeable through my thick tshirt.

I'm very pleased with the results I've achieved through herbals and bovine ovary.  FOR ME, it works and it works well.
I guess that in MY case, I'm just lucky that my body responds so well to this stuff..
For others, YMMV...

I have been on HRT and anti - androgens for 7 years.......herbals, I've tried them as well......but still no acceptable female looking breast growth..

[Berliegh]

I have been on HRT and anti - androgens for 7 years.......herbals, I've tried them as well......but still no acceptable female looking breast growth..

  Gosh, that's got to be frustrating as hell.  I assume you've had like some sort of endo analysis done?
There must be something that will jump start your motor..
What about those suction things, I think it's called the Brava.  I thought about that myself.  I also saw some
suction rigs you can buy on ebay that would do the same thing as the Brava but a heck of a lot cheaper, just not as classy.
Gosh I hope you can find a solution! 

By a certain age your receptors don't work and hormones are not going to work very well on someone over 30 who is already fully deveoped. I wish there was a way to gain some kind of development for me. It is frustrating considering how long term I've been.

I've seen a few endocrinologists and the suggestions from them usually produce a worse effect. One endo suggested Goserlarin (Zoladex) which had a reversal effect on me and progynova which made me violently sick. Most suggestions from endo's are worse than my own...

[Hypatia]

I hear you need progesterone to achieve fuller breast development. I want to try it but the W-W Clinic transgender program has a policy of not giving it, I'd be on my own, ordering black-market stuff online, and it's an expensive habit. But I would rather have that than surgery!

A local health-food store sells OTC Wild Yam progesterone cream for breast development. I wonder if it would have any effect on me? I began HRT last year at the age of 46, and while my breasts look pretty, they're still way small. I need to find out what levels of progesterone would do me good, and if such is available in Wild Yam cream.

[Keira]

If progynova made you sick, it must be the delivery mechanism, not the estrogen, unless you were getting a higher dose and you body wasn't used to that. Many are allergic to the dye in the 2mg tablet, I think the 1mg has a different dye. Have you tried injections?

Wild yam cream, forget about it, though there are real "progesterone USP" over the counter creams that are reputed to work (available in the US, not sure elsewhere).

For progesterone, you can start later if you want to save money and have better results (since it conteracts with estrogen); usual time to start is about 6 months.

[Lisbeth]

usual time to start is about 6 months.

My doctor said two years.  Which for me is in about a month and a half.

[debisl]

I tried something similar to what the site below says to try. When you get to the site scroll down the the section about lactating. Your breast will swell, and hopfully retain some shape.
http://www.sandimari.com/nipples_breasts.htm

When I was growing up all of my girlfriends always said if you let someone massage your chest they will get bigger. I have no idea if there is any truth to that or not, but beleive me I tried.

Deb

[Melissa]

I wonder sometimes if transgendered people don't have a greater interest in their breasts than the female populous as a whole. While breasts are a very great signifier of femininity and associated with feminine sexuality, femininity is certainly more than the things hanging from your chest. A huge percentage of women have quite small breasts

I suggest you go ask some of those small-breasted women how they feel about it.  Most of the ones I've met have obsessed about it just as much was we do.

I noticed that two. A lot of these women generally get mocked by their peers for having smaller breasts too, generally aggravating the resentment and self esteem damage.

Yep, you might be surprised that we are not at all that different from GGs in regards to feelings about ourselves.  Many of them love reveling in their femininity and resent being thought of as masculine just as much as we do.  How do I know this?  Well, since I'm almost completely stealth in my life (except at work, with my GF, or online) I am around GGs a lot and they're not afraid to express how they feel about this subject.  It's actually pretty amazing how much gender differences comes up in daily life with non-TG people in their conversations (I hadn't paid attention to it as much before transition).   It's actually no wonder we become so dysphoric when our perceived gender is constantly being brought up. 

I can tell you though that for me, once I went fulltime in my correct gender, these gender differences actually now cause euphoria.  In my musical rehearsals, these issues come up even more often due to the nature of men's and women's singing sections being different.  I had a woman last night next to me pointing out how the men tend to spread away from each other and the women cluster together.  Then she said "They're just afraid they'll get cooties if they get to close to each other." to which I laughed.  She responded "Well, it's true.", which I knew it was.  It was just funny (and wonderfully ironic) having a GG explain how men work to me.

Sorry for rambling, but my point is that despite how much more you think the transgender population focus on gender, the non-TG population focuses on it almost just as much.

[Dennis]

Sorry for rambling, but my point is that despite how much more you think the transgender population focus on gender, the non-TG population focuses on it almost just as much.

Quoted for truth. One of the most profound things I've read on this board.

Dennis

[Keira]

If your E dose is low, waiting to start progesterone 2 years is better because you'll not conteract your E. With a higher E dose, its less critical but you still need breast tissue so it makes any sense at all to use it.

Also, if you've got little breast projection, starting progesterone is useless in general (say A cup an below); progesterone needs breast tissue to work with, it doesn't improve projection, just the lateral size of the breast.

In GG, progesterone kicks in when the menses start, which is several years, two, after breast growth start. So, if we follow this lead, starting late doesn't make any difference.

[Nero]

I wonder sometimes if transgendered people don't have a greater interest in their breasts than the female populous as a whole. While breasts are a very great signifier of femininity and associated with feminine sexuality, femininity is certainly more than the things hanging from your chest. A huge percentage of women have quite small breasts

I suggest you go ask some of those small-breasted women how they feel about it.  Most of the ones I've met have obsessed about it just as much was we do.

I noticed that two. A lot of these women generally get mocked by their peers for having smaller breasts too, generally aggravating the resentment and self esteem damage.

Yep, you might be surprised that we are not at all that different from GGs in regards to feelings about ourselves.  Many of them love reveling in their femininity and resent being thought of as masculine just as much as we do.  How do I know this?  Well, since I'm almost completely stealth in my life (except at work, with my GF, or online) I am around GGs a lot and they're not afraid to express how they feel about this subject. 
Sorry for rambling, but my point is that despite how much more you think the transgender population focus on gender, the non-TG population focuses on it almost just as much.

Too true. Women are more obsessed with breasts than men are. By far the biggest thing women judge other women on is how nice and big her tits are.  As if the smaller or more unattractive the tits, the less womanly she is.
And as Lisbeth said, small breasted women are the most obsessed. If they're small breasted or perceive themselves to be, they're constantly self-conscious if their blouse looks too loose and get depsressed every time they see a woman with great tits (I know this firsthand, because I had/have 'great tits' ). And exclaim that they're jealous, or her 'great tits' can't possibly be her own.
GGs are obsessed with tits. Can't even watch TV without them expressing annoyance that there's a topless woman with 'great tits' on the show.
And so many of them get BAs.
No, you girls aren't any more obsessed than the average GG.

[Kat]

I definitely feel inadequate whenever I am out... I constantly compare my itty-bitties with the ones I see everywhere.  Super-stuffing my bra makes me feel a bit better though until they fill out though, I haven't been on hormones very long.

[Sophia]

I noticed that too. A lot of these women generally get mocked by their peers for having smaller breasts too, generally aggravating the resentment and self esteem damage.

Yep, you might be surprised that we are not at all that different from GGs in regards to feelings about ourselves.  Many of them love reveling in their femininity and resent being thought of as masculine just as much as we do.  How do I know this?  Well, since I'm almost completely stealth in my life (except at work, with my GF, or online) I am around GGs a lot and they're not afraid to express how they feel about this subject.  It's actually pretty amazing how much gender differences comes up in daily life with non-TG people in their conversations (I hadn't paid attention to it as much before transition).   It's actually no wonder we become so dysphoric when our perceived gender is constantly being brought up. 

I'm not all that surprised. A woman who's told she has masculine traits or a man that's told he has feminine traits tends to feel less attractive and less like themselves. I see it happen all the time. Guys responding almost violently to being told they have little girly wrists and women getting really pissed and upset about being told they have "man chin". All it takes is a little bit of observation and you can see that really cisgendered people act just like we do, they just have the good luck of having bodies that for the most part match their gender fully.

So the comparisons to other genders is not as rough for them because they have some assurance at least that those comparisons are wrong. Whereas we've had it pounded into us that we look like the gender we know we aren't because people assume that its making us feel better by "reaffirming our masculinity" for us (and the opposite for ftms). They don't realize that they just make us feel worse.

I can tell you though that for me, once I went fulltime in my correct gender, these gender differences actually now cause euphoria.  In my musical rehearsals, these issues come up even more often due to the nature of men's and women's singing sections being different.  I had a woman last night next to me pointing out how the men tend to spread away from each other and the women cluster together.  Then she said "They're just afraid they'll get cooties if they get to close to each other." to which I laughed.  She responded "Well, it's true.", which I knew it was.  It was just funny (and wonderfully ironic) having a GG explain how men work to me.

lol

Sorry for rambling, but my point is that despite how much more you think the transgender population focus on gender, the non-TG population focuses on it almost just as much.

I definately agree.

Posted on: July 31, 2007, 03:01:09 PM

Too true. Women are more obsessed with breasts than men are. By far the biggest thing women judge other women on is how nice and big her tits are.  As if the smaller or more unattractive the tits, the less womanly she is.
And as Lisbeth said, small breasted women are the most obsessed. If they're small breasted or perceive themselves to be, they're constantly self-conscious if their blouse looks too loose and get depsressed every time they see a woman with great tits (I know this firsthand, because I had/have 'great tits' ). And exclaim that they're jealous, or her 'great tits' can't possibly be her own.
GGs are obsessed with tits. Can't even watch TV without them expressing annoyance that there's a topless woman with 'great tits' on the show.
And so many of them get BAs.
No, you girls aren't any more obsessed than the average GG.

Almost makes me wonder, if I don't obsess over my own breasts' size and act all jealous if other girls will think something is wrong with me.

[Melissa]

So the comparisons to other genders is not as rough for them because they have some assurance at least that those comparisons are wrong. Whereas we've had it pounded into us that we look like the gender we know we aren't because people assume that its making us feel better by "reaffirming our masculinity" for us (and the opposite for ftms). They don't realize that they just make us feel worse.

I'm trying to understand what you mean here.  I'll assume you are saying that it's not as difficult for a GG to have a masculine feature pointed out as it is for a TS woman to have a masculine feature pointed out.  I wouldn't be so fast to jump to that conclusion.  If the GG really did have a masculine feature, it would hurt her just as much--especially if she were told this over and over again.  As I said before, we really are not as different from GGs as you might think.