Does the term "->-bleeped-<-" bother you?

[Devlyn]

I don't care for it. A quick search reveals that several members here use it in their screennames, so it's a YMMV thing.Hugs, Devlyn

[Carlita]

Kanye can rhyme 'nigga' and 'gold digger' ... but I'm sure not going to do it.

A gay singing group in the UK call themselves 'Four Poofs and a Piano', ('poof' being the English version of '->-bleeped-<-got'), but that doesn't give straight guys the right to call gay men poofs.

Likewise, if I jokingly refer to myself as a '->-bleeped-<-', because there are times when I want to be able to joke about my situation, just to make up for all the other times when it really bloody hurts, then I can do that. And you can do that, too, if you're TS (even though you know and I know that TS is not the same as TV and '->-bleeped-<-' is applied to both). And if a very, very, very close friend that I absolutely trust affectionately calls me 'you old ->-bleeped-<-,' then maybe - maybe - I'll be cool with that.

But if anyone ever uses that term, or '->-bleeped-<-' as a description of me, let alone shouts it as an insult, no that's not OK and it will never be OK, because it represents all the prejudice and hatred and bigotry that anyone who has lived with being TS, whether they've transitioned or not has had to deal with (even if it's just been that we're so scared of what might happen, rather than what does).

Like the girls have said: context.

[NJade]

But if anyone ever uses that term, or '->-bleeped-<-' as a description of me, let alone shouts it as an insult, no that's not OK and it will never be OK, because it represents all the prejudice and hatred and bigotry that anyone who has lived with being TS, whether they've transitioned or not has had to deal with (even if it's just been that we're so scared of what might happen, rather than what does).

Like the girls have said: context.

Yeah, ->-bleeped-<- or shim or any variety of that will get you something like a punch in the face from me (either literal or figurative). ->-bleeped-<- is tame by comparison.

[Karla]

... if Auntie Karla doesn't slug 'em first. 

a propos, t'ai chi is wonderful because it develops lower body strength.  T'ai chi is one martial art, in which there's no gender advantage, and a girl can really take care of herself.   (most practitioners would say that's it's just for health, and please run from any real fight)

Yeah, ->-bleeped-<- or shim or any variety of that will get you something like a punch in the face from me (either literal or figurative). ->-bleeped-<- is tame by comparison.

[Lyric]

I absolutely hate that term in this threads title and always have. The term "transvestite" is an outdated clinical term created by the psychology community. I can say from personal experience and observation that this simplistic label is not much more descriptive than "person". It's exists to to provide a simple way of "understanding" a very complex group of individuals. The unfortunate thing is many of us buy into the simplistic concept and try to fit the stereotype. It's never good to to mold yourself into someone else's concept. My approach has always been to completely ignore labels and create my own version of who I am.

[Sammy]

... if Auntie Karla doesn't slug 'em first. 

a propos, t'ai chi is wonderful because it develops lower body strength.  T'ai chi is one martial art, in which there's no gender advantage, and a girl can really take care of herself.   (most practitioners would say that's it's just for health, and please run from any real fight)

As is Xinyiquan and Bagua. But just as in case with taijiquan, practical application very much differs from health routines . Just to mention - combat application of one of the basic movements is intended to break attacker's hand in three joints (wrist, elbow + dislocate shoulder). Otherwise, very nice and peaceful art

[StellaB]

Don't like the term.

As for the people who use it, it's basically easier for them to use than to come out and admit 'I am a complete div.'

[lissabuchannon]

Bothers me when I'm called it, but sometimes I'll use it when referring to myself, I don't know why when I hate the word so much :/

[Jennygirl]

Yes I consider it a horrible term and it lights me up every time I hear someone say it, even though it's never been directed and me thank goodness.

To make matters worse, one of my TV fiend roommates just started crushing on Ru Paul's Drag Race which I had never seen before. There is a segment in every episode where they shout "Hey, you've got SHEMAIL". It's made me cringe the three times I've seen the show. When they watched an episode tonight and it happened, I just blurted out "that's f*****'d". No response from them, I'm not sure if they get it. It makes me realize how horrible I think that show is for a few reasons like that.

Maybe it's good for exposing that people are just people doing their thing, but it also opens up a whole can of worms against transgendered folks and horribly defamatory terminologies that I cannot believe are being aired all over the country! Yikes

[calico]

Yes I consider it a horrible term and it lights me up every time I hear someone say it, even though it's never been directed and me thank goodness.

To make matters worse, one of my TV fiend roommates just started crushing on Ru Paul's Drag Race which I had never seen before. There is a segment in every episode where they shout "Hey, you've got SHEMAIL". It's made me cringe the three times I've seen the show. When they watched an episode tonight and it happened, I just blurted out "that's f*****'d". No response from them, I'm not sure if they get it. It makes me realize how horrible I think that show is for a few reasons like that.

Maybe it's good for exposing that people are just people doing their thing, but it also opens up a whole can of worms against transgendered folks and horribly defamatory terminologies that I cannot believe are being aired all over the country! Yikes

I hate that show, from what I have seen of it.   Its shows like this, and jerry springer, that is probally the main reason people even started using the phrase's they do and calling us those names.  Bad advertizing.

[Lyric]

a complete div.'

OK. This a thread about terms. "Div" is a new one to me.

[Jess42]

"->-bleeped-<-" or "transvestite" doesn't really bother me, as a matter of fact, I could care less. After all they are just words. How it is said on the other hand, or used to belittle or hurt someone, then they become negative discriptions. I am not into all the P.C. and I really despise the P.C. police. Words are words and we have the freedom to say them, if we dare and don't care what the P.C. police say. Besides most people are ignorant to the transgendered aspects of life and the only education they get about it is through entertainment medias, so I would guess when most people use it it is just a description because they don't know any better.

[StellaB]

I am not into all the P.C. and I really despise the P.C. police. Words are words and we have the freedom to say them, if we dare and don't care what the P.C. police say.

So this means you're okay with stuff like slander, libel and defamation of character? Words and words right? And we have the freedom right?

I'm not exactly PC as I much rather favour the more traditional values of personal responsibility and consideration for other people's feelings.

But freedom carries responsibility. Words are as real as the people saying them are, and I'm all for holding people as responsible for their words as they are for their thoughts and actions.

[Shantel]

So this means you're okay with stuff like slander, libel and defamation of character? Words and words right? And we have the freedom right?

I'm not exactly PC as I much rather favour the more traditional values of personal responsibility and consideration for other people's feelings.

But freedom carries responsibility. Words are as real as the people saying them are, and I'm all for holding people as responsible for their words as they are for their thoughts and actions.

You have made a good point Stella, and to be honest I have noted that here on the North American continent words are flung around carelessly, it all goes back to a saying from a song back in the 1960's "It don't mean nothin!" Whereas, people south of the US border and elsewhere take words very seriously, for instance if you were to refer to a hispanic woman as a pig, you might be lucky to escape without being cut to pieces by her husband or other family member. Words carry weight and when they are let fly they can pierce someone's heart like an arrow. We need to be more conscious of that here.

[Sarah Louise]

Its funny how this thread idea keeps popping up about every 6 months or so.

I remember the old saying, Sticks and stones can break your bones but words can never hurt you.  I heard this from my parents so often.

Oh how wrong that statement is, words used by the right (or wrong) person can hurt very much.  Its time we learned to respect other peoples feelings and treat them as we want to be treated, with courtesy and respect.

[lissabuchannon]

Yeah, I noticed that the one time I saw it. The problem is this: Drag performers are all about the attention, drama, and accentuating - making fun of women really. They're largely sexist over-amplification depictions of what gay men believe women to be - "annoying". Most drag queens hate trans* identified people, because we're not "gay". I have only ever met one drag queen that wasn't a complete bitch to me. Ru Paul's whole show is kinda degrading tbh

Yes I consider it a horrible term and it lights me up every time I hear someone say it, even though it's never been directed and me thank goodness.

To make matters worse, one of my TV fiend roommates just started crushing on Ru Paul's Drag Race which I had never seen before. There is a segment in every episode where they shout "Hey, you've got SHEMAIL".

[StellaB]

You see my whole issue with the term '->-bleeped-<-' is that just like '->-bleeped-<-' and '->-bleeped-<-' and such terms it dehumanizes the human being being referred to, and the label stigmatizes them. Originally '->-bleeped-<-' was a shortened form of 'transvestite' but because so many people assume rather than discuss, it's come to describe anyone and everyone between a sissy (itself a completely valid subculture) to a post-op transwoman.

This is where I have issues both with freedom of speech and also with PC or political correctness - they remove the responsibility we need to take for our words and how we articulate our thoughts and ideas. Without that need to take responsibility for what we say and write we actually diminish our language, and by stretching the meaning of the words we are also diminishing our culture.

Political correctness is just as bad I feel as using terms which dehumanize because they allow for 'social stigma' - the negative assumptions people make about others when it comes to their appearance, their behaviour and their lifestyle.

This allows people to impose existing cultural beliefs on others by creating broad social categories and a social division between 'us' and 'them'. It also validates a social hierarchy which is nothing more than an illusion, leads to the status loss of those unfortunate to be placed in the 'them' category which in turn leads to a very real denial of opportunity for the people who are stigmatized.

Another example of this social stigma is the use of the word 'taxpayer' which is used to stigmatize anybody who is jobless or in receipt of welfare benefits. This completely ignores the fact that income tax (which is the definitive tax) isn't the only form of taxation, and by labelling welfare recipients as scroungers, parasites and unproductive members of society actually proves counterproductive simply because it handicaps many jobseekers making it harder for them to find the employment which takes them off welfare benefits.

This form of stigmatization works because people assume that by not needing to claim welfare benefits that they are somehow better than the welfare recipients, that they are more intelligent, better educated, more resourceful, more successful. They support policies which oppress and villify the jobless, which leads to millions of lives being destroyed and futures wrecked as a result of the status loss and discrimination. All because of some people's desperate emotional need to feel worthwhile.

Similar thing too with '->-bleeped-<-'. It dehumanizes because it emphasizes the perceived defect, the gender dysphoria, the incompatibility between mind, body and soul, encouraging people to see the stigmatized person as a freak of nature, a subhuman, a defective human being. However many people dismiss this gender dysphoria also because it would still require them to understand and to accept, so instead its perceived as the lifestyle choice of someone choosing to be someone who they're not in reality. 

[Devlyn]

Yeah, I noticed that the one time I saw it. The problem is this: Drag performers are all about the attention, drama, and accentuating - making fun of women really. They're largely sexist over-amplification depictions of what gay men believe women to be - "annoying". Most drag queens hate trans* identified people, because we're not "gay". I have only ever met one drag queen that wasn't a complete bitch to me. Ru Paul's whole show is kinda degrading tbh

A couple of reminders about the site mission and rules:

Community Definitions:

Transgender: an inclusive umbrella term which covers anyone who transcends their birth gender for any reason. This includes but is not limited to Androgynes, Crossdressers, Drag kings, Drag queens, Intersexuals, Transsexuals, and Transvestites.

Androgyne: An androgynous person

Androgynous: Being neither distinguishably masculine nor feminine, as in dress, appearance, or behavior.

Crossdresser: a person wears the clothing of the opposite gender, and has no desire to permanently change their sex. There is generally no sexual motivation for the cross-dressing.

Drag kings: performers, usually gay women or transgendered men - who dress in "drag," clothing associated with the male gender, usually highly exaggerated versions thereof. Drag kings often do drag to perform, singing or lip-syncing and dancing, participating in events such as gay pride parades, cabarets, discotheques, and other celebrations and venues.

Drag queens: performers, usually gay men or transgendered women - who dress in "drag," clothing associated with the female gender, usually highly exaggerated versions thereof. Drag queens often do drag to perform, singing or lip-syncing and dancing, participating in events such as gay pride parades, cabarets, discotheques, and other celebrations and venues.

Intersexual: a person born with the full or partial sex organs of both sexes; with underdeveloped or ambiguous sex organs; a sex chromosome karyotype other than XX or XY; or sex hormone receptor problems which prevent normal absorption of Estrogen or Androgens. Intersexual persons may seek to make their body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatments.

Significant other: for the purpose of this site, someone close to a person who is transgender. This may be a mother, father, son, daughter, sister, brother, family member, husband, wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, or friend.

Transsexual: a person who is mentally one gender, but has the body of the other. They desire to live and be accepted as a member of the mental gender, this is generally accompanied by the strong desire to make their body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatments.

Transvestite: a person who wears the clothing of the opposite gender, and has no desire to permanently change their sex. There is generally a strong sexual motivation for the cross-dressing.

Other terms:

Post-Ops: Transsexuals who have had surgical procedures to make their body as congruent as possible with their preferred sex. For MTF transsexuals this is generally considered to be after Genital surgery (GRS, orchiectomy, and/or penectomy), for FTM transsexuals it is generally considered to be after top surgery.

Pre-ops: Transsexuals who desire to to make their body as congruent as possible with their preferred sex, but have not yet had the surgical procedures for whatever reason.

This is not intended to be a glossary of all tg related terms. This just defines the make-up of the community on this site.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.msg337984.html#msg337984

From the site TOS:

10. Bashing or flaming of any individuals or groups is not acceptable behavior on this web site and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason.  This includes but is not limited to:Advocating the separation or exclusion of one or more group from under the Transgender umbrella termSuggesting or claiming that one segment or sub-segment of our community is more legitimate, deserving, or more real than any others

Drag Kings and Queens are as welcome to use this site for support as any other person, please make sure to be welcoming and supportive. Hugs, Devlyn

[Rabbit]

I don't mind it...at all....

When someone uses the "n-word" for a black person, it is from a long tradition of using that word specifically as a derogatory term. But, actually, when black people were still slaves... the meaning wasn't seen as derogatory, it was just another word for black (since both meant the same thing, both were equal levels of derogatory).

We are still just coming out of that early period. ->-bleeped-<- is obviously offensive (since it is a porn term), but ->-bleeped-<-? Nope, it really simply means "transgendered" to most people (and being transgendered is bad enough on its own). Actually, I'm more offended by transsexual (since that implies you are transsexual, when I actually identify as transgendered). ->-bleeped-<- seems like a relaxed way of saying "trans" and I use it alllllll the time, even though I try to use "Trans" more (actually, every trans person I know in real life uses ->-bleeped-<- also... no one seems to have a problem with it in a casual sense).

If someone in business were to refer to me as a ->-bleeped-<- though, I might be a bit more offended (since it is such a casual term,

Basically, I guess it really depends how they are using it. If they say "transsexual" or "transgendered" with a disgusted / judging inflection, I would be offended also. But if I met some guy at a club and he innocently goes "ohh you are a ->-bleeped-<-?" I would just laugh and say "yup" (since, he isn't really judging, it is just a shorter version of transgender /transsexual).

I think teaching trans people to be offended by the word does more harm than good though. Maybe in the past "->-bleeped-<-" was derogatory and horrible and everything else....but today it really isn't (simply there is a big group of people insisting it is and getting angry at people who aren't using it in a negative way at all). All that does is make us seem overly aggressive / sensitive and jumping on people who aren't meaning any offense (which is a sure way to push people away and think we are crazy).

Heck, even I get pretty confused with all the semantics in this community ~_~_~ For example, a pre-transitioned person? Do you call them by their "new" gender that they aren't presenting as but are beginning to identify as? Or do you call them by their old one until they get a little further and make the switch publicly?

And the entire transgender / transsexual / transvestite thing? Really, you can't expect someone who has never met a transgendered person to know all this stuff ~_~ If you get mad at them because they haven't been introduced to it and make a "mistake"... it (again) just makes us seem hostile. ->-bleeped-<- / trans is the least of our problems (if it is one at all).

How about first step we just get them to accept we aren't all sex workers or perverts? And we can battle the public on proper semantics (that we can't even agree on lol) down the road ~_~ ->-bleeped-<-? Great, yell at them for that. ->-bleeped-<-? Meeeh, let it slide.

[muuu]

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