Spiro effects on feminization

[Joanna Dark]

So I recently had my spiro dose increased significantly to a normal dose from a very, very low dose. I've been on HRT for seven-and-a-half weeks now and my E dose is normal. I've had some good effects and my skin has completely cleared up, become smooth and pale and my pore size has diminished. It's pretty noticeable. What I'm wondering is now that my spiro dose has been upped should I expect an acceleration in effects? I've heard that E suppresses T better than but that spiro is needed to stop the T you do have from attaching to T receptors. It's all kind of confusing.

I'm really hoping that the spiro helps round out and slims/narrows my jaw line. So if anyone else has any experience to share of how increasing your spiro dose has resulted in an acceleration of feminization, I'd like to hear it. Or if you have anything to share that's even semi-related would be awesome! I know it's early to be expecting a lot of results but I'm already getting some and have heard before that a lot of the effects occur around month four to six so I don't think I'm too delusional.

[Kelly-087]

E does supress it better, I think.

But I don't think we can safely get enough E to make that supression happen to the levels we need it.

[Joanna Dark]

If the jawline is all about bone, then how come in many MTFS their lower face rounds out and their jaw becomes less angular? These are MTFs who never had FFS. I mean in my face the skin around the jaw is thick and if that thinned out and is replaced by thin skin and a layer of subcutaneous fat, I think it would have a dramatic effect.

It's hard to get any concrete info on HRT but what I believe happens is that E is the hormone that actually feminizes an MTF and spiro (or another AA) is used to bring down the T level to (a) to allow and promote feminization and (b) reduce muscle mass and body hair which is maintained by T and DHT.

Spiro does this by creating a negative feedback loop within the enndocrine system. It does this because spiro is the most potent adrogen agonist drug available. It has a binding affintiy for T receptor and it fills them up, knocking T off in the process and at first creating a higher level of T in the body.

Weightlifters sometimes use spiro short-term (1 week) to increase T levels. After a week, what happens is the pituitary gland sees all this free T floating around and sends a message to the testes to stop producing T. Thus creating the negative feedback loop which ultimately lowers T levels around two weeks.

I just recently had my spiro upped and my sex drive is def higher and it feels some of the effects are reversing. Skin isn't smooth anymore, facial hair growing faster, etc. I know the effects of the increased T are temporary so I'm not worried. Eventually, I feel that T will be nuked within a week to 10 days and then feminization should continue and at an accelerated pace since the E no longer has to compete with T.

Does this make sense? Or do I have it all wrong? This is the opinion I got from reading 100s or accounts of MTF transitions and various studies.

[Nicolette]

The jaw bone is wrapped in muscle. Women with a very square jaw can have it softened with botox injections. It makes sense that a reduction in T will do something similar, although it will take longer. I don't think you're wrong Joanna.

[Joanna Dark]

I don't think E or spiro will alter the bone. Never said that. But I guess I should have said jaw rather then jawline. I just have seen, with my eyes, the effects of HRT on the lower portion of the face and while on some there is no effect, on others, it is dramatic. I guess it depends on your starting point, and I'm starting out pretty andro (or a pretty andro lol) so I'm thinking it should reduce my lower face. In some ways, I think it has, but I'm still real early on and just started regular dose spiro. I was on a normal dose of E and low spiro and now the dose is prob the same as every other MTF.

And like Tesla said the jaw is wrapped in muscle and there is every reason to believe that a reduction in T will have an effect on muscles. Compounded with fat redistribution and a layer of subcutaneous fat, I think it will change your lower face. Again, if you have a real masculine face, this may not be the case. Nobody has ever called me a masculine-looking person though lol 

[Kelly-087]

Joanna,


I've experience this too. It seems to be some days I simply look more androgynous than others. It's probably less talked about because it's easier to ignore it until it goes away

I've also seen some changes in the lower face. my jaw typically looks less pronounced in that area, so far.

[Shellz]

It does this because spiro is the most potent adrogen agonist drug available.

I'm not an expert by any means but from what I have read spiro isn't as potent as cyproterone acetate (androcur) in the anti androgen stakes - of course it may be the case that you can't get androcur in your country.

[Joanna Dark]

I'm not an expert by any means but from what I have read spiro isn't as potent as cyproterone acetate (androcur) in the anti androgen stakes - of course it may be the case that you can't get androcur in your country.

They're kinda two different drugs. Androcour cuts T off at the source: the testes. It stops T production. Spiro doesn't stop T production. It "tricks" the body into believing the body is producing too much T because spiro binds to T receptors and kicks T off them, creating a lot of free T in the body. Then the body says "hey there's so much T here better shut down production" and that lowers T. That make sense?