Are Therapists Milking the Transgender Community?

[Karla]

What is the overall impression from our MtF audience? Are female therapists better suited to our situation than males? I know, we all communicate better with women, even if they dont know we are trans, because subconsciously they know we are the same or at least that we are different from men.

Sammy,

I don't know.

Because my first therapist was male, and a bad experience, it's made me distrustful about men... at least on the therapy couch.  I wouldn't want a male electrologist either... my first one (1987) was male, and kept offering to introduce me to men.  A little too helpful.

Is that to say that males are not qualified?  Certainly not.  Or that all females are qualified?  My new therapist is female, but the jury's out on her.  Supposed to specialize in gender issues, but i feel she's dragging her feet.  I wish she would just get the stupid letter out of the way, a formality that she's taking far too seriously... so that we can get on with the business of actual therapy.

Am I too impatient ?  Don't hold back, I'm here to learn.

-Karla

[Asfsd4214]

Yes, they are. Psychiatry being one of the worst offenders.

And really our own community has itself to blame, therapists may be scamming us out of our money, but it's us that not only let them do it, but have many among our ranks who believe the rhetoric too.

[Joanna Dark]

Uh... Which medical journal? Post-SRS, rates of detransition are pegged around 1% by every study that I've seen... In fact it's widely regarded as one of the surgeries with the highest rates of success. All surgeries have failure rates, just to be clear.

Also, once again, I'd like to point out that prioritizing the health of cis people over trans people is gross. If a few cis people get themselves on hormones? Well, they'll probably figure it out pretty quick. And if they don't, too bad. I'm a bit more concerned about our insane rates of suicide, depression and substance abuse than a handful of delusional, privileged cis folks. Sorry.

If this isn't the right path for you, figure that out for yourself.

Uh, excuse me? Did I say I need a therapist. Um, no. Did I say the rate of detransition is 31 percent? Um, no. I said other people say that and I say it is somewhere in between 31 and 1. I call this line of thought: moderation.

[Asfsd4214]

Also, once again, I'd like to point out that prioritizing the health of cis people over trans people is gross. If a few cis people get themselves on hormones? Well, they'll probably figure it out pretty quick. And if they don't, too bad. I'm a bit more concerned about our insane rates of suicide, depression and substance abuse than a handful of delusional, privileged cis folks. Sorry.

If this isn't the right path for you, figure that out for yourself. Making permanent physical changes to your flesh is serious stuff. Obviously. Honestly, I think it's bizarre the whole shuffling responsibility off on therapists. Yes, therapy can be a useful tool during transition, because transition is stressful as hell. But as a gatekeeper? We aren't children. We are perfectly capable of making our own decisions and taking responsibility for them.

Someone on susans said something I agree with...

I'm not a lesbian but... merry me? 

<3

[Eveline]

So i think i ought to try, 'informed consent' and use therapy as a long term discussion.

Karla, that's the approach I'm taking. My endo didn't require a letter, and the same goes for some well-regarded FFS surgeons (at least the non-US surgeons I've been considering).

Of course, I live on the Left Coast. Don't know if it will be tougher to find an endo with the same policy in your area...

[Ltl89]

Uh... Which medical journal? Post-SRS, rates of detransition are pegged around 1% by every study that I've seen... In fact it's widely regarded as one of the surgeries with the highest rates of success. All surgeries have failure rates, just to be clear.

Also, once again, I'd like to point out that prioritizing the health of cis people over trans people is gross. If a few cis people get themselves on hormones? Well, they'll probably figure it out pretty quick. And if they don't, too bad. I'm a bit more concerned about our insane rates of suicide, depression and substance abuse than a handful of delusional, privileged cis folks. Sorry.

If this isn't the right path for you, figure that out for yourself. Making permanent physical changes to your flesh is serious stuff. Obviously. Honestly, I think it's bizarre the whole shuffling responsibility off on therapists. Yes, therapy can be a useful tool during transition, because transition is stressful as hell. But as a gatekeeper? We aren't children. We are perfectly capable of making our own decisions and taking responsibility for them.

I agree with your overall point.  However, I do think therapists have an important role to play to ensure their patient is making the right decision.  The fact is that there are some transgender people who might have conflicted feelings.  Not everyone needs to transition.  Yes, many here (including myself) feel this way, but it isn't a universal standard.  I don't think the point of the therapist is to catch deluded cisgender people, but rather making sure that transgender individuals find the proper course to heal their GID.  Transitioning is right for a lot of us, but not all of us.  That is why there are some people who do decide to detransition.  Transitioning is great for the right person, but it can be horrible for the wrong one.  A good therapist should make sure that their patient is doing what is right and good for them. 

That being said, some therapists should be more flexible and not act like pure gatekeepers.  It should be a mutual relationship of trust.  They should be there to help you find your path, begin your journey, and give you advice and encouragement along the way.  If not, then it is time to find a better therapist.

[eli77]

Uh, excuse me? Did I say I need a therapist. Um, no. Did I say the rate of detransition is 31 percent? Um, no. I said other people say that and I say it is somewhere in between 31 and 1. I call this line of thought: moderation.

That was more of a global "you," not a specifically you, "you." I have no idea if you personally need a therapist, and that's kind of the point. It's not my business. And it's not anyone's business. If you want a therapist to help with transition, awesome. If you don't, also awesome. But it should be your choice.

And I was asking for the study because I'm pretty sure it isn't between 31 and 1 percent. I'm pretty sure it's just 1 percent.

Someone on susans said something I agree with...

I'm not a lesbian but... merry me? 

<3

I am a lesbian, but I'm afraid I'm taken.

That being said, some therapists should be more flexible and not act like pure gatekeepers.  It should be a mutual relationship of trust.  They should be there to help you find your path, begin your journey, and give you advice and encouragement along the way.  If not, then it is time to find a better therapist.

My personal experience with gender therapy amounts to "relatively painless" and "some useful information that would be hard to find online." That that is a fairly positive result is frankly pathetic. If there is ever going to be any kind of trust between therapist and patient, there can't be gatekeeping powers in the way. That is like "how to get your patient to lie 101" nonsense right there. And it frustrates me that we still have members of our own community standing up and saying that everyone should be restricted on the basis of their own concerns.

And there was one therapist where I transitioned. "Find a better therapist" is a nice thought. But often harder to put into practice.

[Joanna Dark]

That was more of a global "you," not a specifically you, "you." I have no idea if you personally need a therapist, and that's kind of the point. It's not my business. And it's not anyone's business. If you want a therapist to help with transition, awesome. If you don't, also awesome. But it should be your choice.

Well I am sorry I kinda got so b!tchy. I was in a mood and I shouldn't have been so glib. I agree with you for the most part that therapists aren't necessary if you know 100 percent that you're trans. But it seems like a lot of people have latent onset transsexuality and have never experienced any issues with being male.

Oh, here is the only peer-reviewed study on long-term outcomes of HRT and SRS: http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

The results look good but I still consider 4 suicides in a control group of 150 alot.

[Asfsd4214]

Ultimately, I believe adults have a RIGHT to make their own mistakes.

The current psychiatric system has created a type of second class of adult.

I hate psychiatry, I think the whole industry needs to be abolished and their responsibilities assumed by other disciplines. The field is contaminated by its roots and corruption.

[Joanna Dark]

I thought it'd be higher, but I guess those who make it to SRS might be less likely to kill themselves.
Though, the whole part of that article seems to have 395 post-ops followed trough 6 years, where only 7 suicides were, and one death from surgery complications. So that's 1.8% suicide ratio and 0.2% deaths from surgery complications.
What else might be noted is that SRS is included in health care where these studies took place, so the ratios might be higher or lower compared US statistics, there's also a lot more acceptance/less discrimination in the countries these studies took place than in the US.

The only thing is we can't know why they killed themselves. There has to be a reason. Obviously I'm tempted to say it post-SRS regret since that seems salient but it could be other things. Many MTFs have other problems. The overwhelming majority (98 percent) seem satisified with the results. I know I will be. I'll prob have to wait X number of more years. Maybe less.

Ultimately, I believe adults have a RIGHT to make their own mistakes.

The current psychiatric system has created a type of second class of adult.

I hate psychiatry, I think the whole industry needs to be abolished and their responsibilities assumed by other disciplines. The field is contaminated by its roots and corruption.

Well don't other people have a right to get treatment from an educated professional? If what you wanted to happen happened, nobody would. And without advocates, and many mental health professionals are advocates, HRT/SRS could very well be outlawed. I mean the far-right in America seem to have a real hate on for us recently. So if a bunch of psychologists so our problems are real, it helps with the general perception and until transsexuality becomes more accepted. I really don't see what your problem is. I had a close friend in psychiatry and he was an awesome person so I have a different experience. I think your channeling too much Tom Cruise here TBH. Sorry.

[Asfsd4214]

Well don't other people have a right to get treatment from an educated professional? If what you wanted to happen, nobody would. I think your channeling too much Tom Cruise here TBH. Sorry.

Yes they do, which is exactly why psychiatry must be done away with. This is the farce of a science envisioned by a sex pervert responsible for shonky BS like lobotomies and ECT.

And the right to get treatment is NOT the obligation to have it FORCED on you. It's my life and *I* run it, not you and your clowns posing as doctors.

[Joanna Dark]

I think we are talking about two different things. I am talking about trans issues and this is the main thing I care about and the main community of people I feel close to, identify with and most of all I want to see happy. I think you are talking about something else. Who is being forced to do anything? I was talking about post-SRS outcomes and if you should see a therapist to work thru gender issues.

If you're talking about therapy prior to SRS I don't think it is unreasonable. Of course, in Thailand, I heard there are some doctors who do not require it and of course if they do, you can get a referral by Dr. Benjamin Franklin. Money talks.

You are only considering getting rid of the pychiatric community (you know the very community who made all this POSSIBLE) and throwing caution to the wind that SRS will still be an option. I don't hold that view. Every docotr that is alive today will one day die and if nobody replaces them, goodbye SRS. But with a system in place to continue it indefinitely, future trans people will be able to seek treatment. What happens after you abolish the medical community that has so helped you. Or don't you care now that you got what you wanted?

In any event, I really think you need to calm down. I'm not arguing with you anymore.

[V M]

Hi friends 

Time to take a breath, take a break, find something constructive to do

Topic temporally locked

Thank you

V M