Binders and Unfavorable Results. {RANT}

[LocustToybox]

So far, I have tried two binders (Underworks and T-Nation) and neither of them give me the flatness that I want. I am very, very anal when it comes to binding (I have to be as flat as a prepubescent underweight boy) and I have found that commercial binders don't work any better than a sports bra made for cisgendered women. So far, I have had the most success with duct tape. I know that it's unhealthy and can damage my lungs, but I get so dysphoric when I'm not perfectly flat. Has anyone else had this issue with binders? If it helps, I'm 5'2 and I have a C-cup.

[Pogopopez]

Yep. I'm wearing a modified underworks one, and its honestly no different than a sports bra. But I look flat...in a black shirt.  Though I would imagine duct tape hurts...I am 5'5" and a C as well. But the addition of T has flattened my chest a bit. Are you currently doing HRT? Your chest should flatten with it eventually.

[LocustToybox]

It actually doesn't hurt that much. I put on a old t-shirt underneath the duct tape, so it doesn't stick to my skin. To take it off, I just run a straight razor vertically down the front, being careful not to cut the shirt. And I am starting HRT next month. 

[Pogopopez]

Ohhh! I feel like I should try this now. >_<
But HRT will flatten them out quite a bit, and for me, quickly!!

[Sebb]

Being flat as a board isn't going to help with passing because many cis males don't have perfectly flat chests.

And I'm not talking about overweight guys, but just average ones. Exhibit A, B, and C. Even this twinkish looking dude has pecs that stand out. Here's another skinny guy with protruding pecs. Frankly, it's not realistic to have a perfectly flat chest because a good chunk of guys don't have that.

Binding too tightly can do irreversible damage to your body. Beyond lung damage (binding too tightly can potentially puncture a lung and cause a lung to collapse, which can kill you), you can fracture a rib, cause permanent spine damage, lower the blood flow to your heart (which can cause a heart attack), lower blood flow to the lymph nodes near your chesticles (and cause lymphatic cancer), and permanent loss of sensation in your chest area.

I'm not kidding. Binding tightly and using duct tape can potentially kill you. And is it worth it for a cartoonishly flat chest? I understand you're upset about your chest, but it's just not worth it to bind so tightly.

[Adam (birkin)]

Well, I won't hop on the "binding with duct tape is so bad for you!!!" train, even though I want to, lol, because you clearly already know that it's not the healthiest choice.

But I will say, I was bothered by my binders a lot in the past (having that little bump), but I got over and it now feel a lot self-conscious, so I'll tell you what helped me. I realized that unless you have something that *clearly* resembles boobs (i.e. round, two of them) binding has very little to do with passing, for one. When I was smaller, binding never helped me pass even when I was almost entirely flat. Now I am a bigger guy, and my binder leaves a bump that to me looks huge, especially from above. But my perception doesn't reflect what anyone else sees at all. I saw myself on video and realized they weren't visible to anyone but myself, and that my passing increased when my shoulders got bigger and my voice got deeper. I also had a friend who said it looked like I got my chest surgery and that I had been working out, and that settled it for me and I stopped worrying. So I stopped hunching and stopped fretting over the bump because I realized it in no way marks me as female to anyone, and I made the decision to stop looking at it and making myself feel bad for very little reason.

[LocustToybox]

Well, I won't hop on the "binding with duct tape is so bad for you!!!" train, even though I want to, lol, because you clearly already know that it's not the healthiest choice.

But I will say, I was bothered by my binders a lot in the past (having that little bump), but I got over and it now feel a lot self-conscious, so I'll tell you what helped me. I realized that unless you have something that *clearly* resembles boobs (i.e. round, two of them) binding has very little to do with passing, for one. When I was smaller, binding never helped me pass even when I was almost entirely flat. Now I am a bigger guy, and my binder leaves a bump that to me looks huge, especially from above. But my perception doesn't reflect what anyone else sees at all. I saw myself on video and realized they weren't visible to anyone but myself, and that my passing increased when my shoulders got bigger and my voice got deeper. I also had a friend who said it looked like I got my chest surgery and that I had been working out, and that settled it for me and I stopped worrying. So I stopped hunching and stopped fretting over the bump because I realized it in no way marks me as female to anyone, and I made the decision to stop looking at it and making myself feel bad for very little reason.

Eh, I appreciate the advice, but I think I'll wait to see what happens after I start HRT. I have a very pretty, feminine, round face and I am quite scrawny (so no one would think I had large pecs because I'd been working out). Maybe once I get on HRT for a while and I have a deeper voice, I will stop binding so tight, but until then, it helps me cope with dysphoria.

[D0LL]

I've never tried binders, although I'm very interesting in trying them. 

I currently use underbust corsets, partially for my scoliosis, and partially to feminize myself.
If I ever decide fully to transition, or to even try to pass as male once in a while, I think I'll switch to an overbust corset, which can be designed for genetic males and will completely cover the bustline while providing wonderful back support. Until now, since I've been trying to feminize, I've been worried because many women complain that long-term wear of the overbust restricts the breasts and mishapes them. Perhaps this is a good thing in the case of (us) FtM?

[Felix]

Please be careful. I don't think I'll ever be totally happy with any binding situation, but I worry more about people seeing the edges or outlines of the binder than the bulginess of my chest. I have found that the better I pass the less I care about how perfect my chest looks. You might be able to ease up on the flattening a bit once your voice drops. Anyway good luck and again please be careful.

[Darrin Scott]

I've only used traditional binders and I'm a lot bigger than a C. I dont think you'll get 100% flat in any binding situation. The good news is, once you are on T your chest flattens out more and you pass better. That's what happened to me, anyway.

[wheat thins are delicious]

Not all men are perfectly flat in the chest area.  I think I'd rather be less flat and able to bind, than hurt myself binding with duct tape and not be able to bind at all because of it.

[ford]

Not all men are perfectly flat in the chest area.  I think I'd rather be less flat and able to bind, than hurt myself binding with duct tape and not be able to bind at all because of it.

^^this. please be careful, because damage to ribs, lungs, etc can be permanent. And I don't know about you, but for me that isn't worth it for a perfectly flat chest.  I'll take the 'pecs' look.

[aleon515]

I've read guys saying they are passing better without binding quite so well. Men are NOT perfectly flat if you look (well don't stare )
Anyway, might read this thread: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,78429.0.html

--Jay

[D0LL]

My binder just came in the mail. And I'm furious.

I got an Underworks tank one, and the reviews were good. I figured it'd do a decent job, although nothing perfect.

Nope. The smallest size is a small. If they know they're selling to genetic women as well, they should offer smaller sizes. Our ribcages aren't as big. This did basically NOTHING to my chest. I literally own t-shirts that compress more than this.

I know firm, almost 34DD boobs are going to be a problem to bind. BUT they're spaced far apart and aren't NEARLY as big as they sound (I've never even gotten cleavage before). If this thing was legit, it would have done SOMETHING.

SOMETHING.

THAT'S ALL I ASK.

My loose sports bras do a MUCH better job of binding than this piece of crap. I don't know if I'll ever try buying a binder again. I might just go to Wal-Mart and buy whatever the smallest size sports bra is that's capable of going over my huge shoulders. And effing deal. Because apparently that's gonna be my best option.

[wheat thins are delicious]

What's the style number of the binder you got?  There are some that are just microfiber compression tanks and not high compression like the doublefront and tritop styles.  Underworks does know they are selling to people who were born female: ftm.underworks.com

[D0LL]

^ I know they know they're selling to FTM, that's why I said they should make an x-small. On average, a genetic female's underbust ranges from 30" to 26" (not including body fat). Our ribcages are significantly smaller than those of cis males, and their products should reflect that fact.

I'm not sure the style number, but somehow almost all the reviews on it were great, even those from FTMs. I'm sure they make better ones, but I'd rather just find other means to bind. :/ Maybe I'd be better off just making a trip to JoAnne's and seeing what I come up with.

I'm using my neoprene waist band while I'm at home (to hopefully burn some boob fat), and quite honestly, even though this is VERY thick and wraps around my chest one and a half times, it's making me soooo much flatter. As I said, my breasts are spread very far apart, they're really not that hard to bind, which is why this purchase was such a disappointment.

[AdamMLP]

They do make XS in the two most commonly brought ones, the 997 double front and tritop (I can never remember the number of that one).  I have one of each.

[aleon515]

Thing is that they are measured for size across chest and then under. It should be by size so that if they recommend a 34, it should fit. 34 is small (according to them). However, everyone is different. IF you are trying to bind DD or DDD or something--it is really hard. I think there are recommendations guys here have made for this?

I don't think that you can bind down to your ribcage size. You're going to hurt yourself, seriously.

I'd say for tiny sizing you could try Loveboat, BUT if you are furious that a size doesn't fit you from a US company, a Taiwan company is worse just for shipping. Have not bothered to try and send them back just donate. And the other is that I have never heard of them binding very well for larger chests. OTOH they are SMALL.

--Jay