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Minimal HRT for feminization without breast growth? (Science of telomeres)

Started by newkama_sanji, December 24, 2011, 10:58:38 AM

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newkama_sanji

I originally posted this in the MTF forum, but I realize that I should've posted it here instead. I recommend reading the valuable responses in that thread.

I've started my first estrogen (estradiol) intake today. I rubbed oestrogel all over my scalp and took a pill. I'll be doing this once per week, for a whole month, then skip for an entire month.

My question is:

1. Will an intermittent HRT avoid or minimize breast development? I want feminization but wish to remain a flat-chested inner lesbian.

2. What effects did estrogen have on your hair? Any regrowth? Did you stop losing hair during HRT?




A little science on estrogen and telomerase activity, just so you know how (little) I understand this:

Though there still remains much to understand about DHT's role in male pattern baldness, I'm betting on what I do know: that hair follicles, like any other cell, undergo cell division, and cell division requires telomeres, and telomeres are replenished by the enzyme telomerase, and telomerase production is activated by estrogen. Even if DHT "does not bind nor inhibit the synthesis of estrogen receptor," it "decreases estrogen-induced RNA transcription at a point subsequent to estrogen receptor binding," and this may include estrogen-induced transcriptional up-regulation of telomerase, which effects premature aging of hair follicles due to lack of telomeres.

It may sound simple, but the discovery of the role of telomeres has indeed simplified the understanding of most cellular processes.

Chromosomes are protected by telomeres--the loss of which marks cell death--and the enzyme telomerase, which replenishes telomeres. This 1978 discovery won the 2009 Nobel Prize in Medicine. A 2010 study by Harvard professor Ronald DePinho demonstrated age reversal by activating telomerase; this was done by "knocking out" the gene that makes telomerase, causing symptoms of premature aging such as gray hair, brain shrinkage, and atrophy of the testes, and upon reactivation of telomerase production there was restoration of affected organs.

The telomerase activating mechanism of estrogen has long been documented, and estrogen deficiency has long been observed to inhibit telomerase.

Estrogen however, by the same process, is also responsible for making cancer cells virtually immortal, thus the use of anti-estrogens such as Tamoxifen to treat breast cancer. Commenting on the double-edged sword property of telomerase activation, DePinho advices that "the risk can be minimized by switching on telomerase only for a matter of days or weeks — which may be brief enough to avoid fueling hidden cancers or cause new ones to develop."

This may explain the empirical results of sexually active women (on the pills) well in their 40s who still look half their age, and why they are the most susceptible to breast cancer later in life.


I'm in my early 20s, and although I still have a full head of hair my hairline is starting to recede.

I've been taking finasteride intermittently for 3 years with questionable results. (I stop after I notice that my hair loss has subsided, and resume when my hair starts falling again.)

The effects of "conditional telomerase induction" on the "proliferation of hair follicle stem cells" was studied in 2005 by Stanford cancer biologist Steven Artandi, and you can see a picture comparing a mouse with its TERT gene turned on with two control mice. But Artandi concludes thus: "baldness dramatically alters hair follicles and makes it unlikely they would respond to the protein."

Today I've just begun my ultra-low dosage HRT with oestrogel and estradiol tablets, with the intent on taking them once a week, for a month, and skipping for a month.  I wish to reap the benefits of estrogen without the development of breasts, specifically I hope to maintain what healthy follicles I have unravaged by DHT (as Artandi thinks regrowth is unlikely). I already have feminine features, but I definitely desire for my face to look convincingly female enough that strangers wouldn't have to apologize for calling me "Ma'am". I'm just not a fan of breasts, and I wish to remain flat-chested.

You might be wondering why I chose to discuss hair loss in the MTF community instead of a specialized forum...

I haven't found studies between estrogen and hair loss, and most people in hair loss forums have never and will never touch estrogen. My google searches only show digressing posts in HRT MTF forums, and I wish to compile personal-anecdotal-empirical evidence to better inform my decisions and the rest of the hair loss community as well.

Thank you.
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lilacwoman

keep us updated on the mood swings.

I think that the reason lots of sexually active women look young is because they exercise and eat better and are sexually active because attractive people are more likely to be socialising where they can be available for sexual activities.

couch potatoes frequently complain of lack of sex and our doctors squander a good portion of their available budget giving them chemical placebos because it is not PC to tell a fat slob to eat and breath better and sex will automatically become better and more frequent.

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Catherine Sarah

Hi newkama_sanji

From your post I perceive you are self medicating. As such my only suggestion to obtain answers to your questions would be to consult an Endocrinologist. An 'Endo' who is experienced in the TG community should be experienced enough to answer your questions and given you proper advice on a potentially lethal product. Playing around with these products is not always the best idea.

Hope you can get the right advice quickly, in the meantime, be safe, well and happy
Lotsa huggs
Catherine

P.S. In answer to your second question. In my case, it's too early to know.




If you're in Australia and are subject to Domestic Violence or Violence against Women, call 1800-RESPECT (1800-737-7328) for assistance.
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kelly_aus

I didn't notice any regrowth for a few months.. In fact it was regrowth of hair I hadn't even realised I'd lost.. I don't take finasteride or dutasteride, I'm on Androcur, which blocks testosterone and dihydrotestosterone.. I also take estradiol..

As to which had caused the regrowth? No idea..
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Rabbit

Hmm, when I first wanted to start HRT ... I wanted the same thing (everything except the breast growth). I mean, logically, if you don't pass...you can just shrug and say "whatever, I'm a really pretty guy then!"... no risk of the breasts creating a sittuation where you cant fit into either gender.

But, from what I understand... it just doesn't work that way.

The face shifts to more feminine happen because of changing fat patterns (skin getting a nice layer of fat under it...making us softer and less defined). But, well, if fat is shifting around... well... the chest is going to start to develop also?

Anyway, now that I have some chest growth, I am DEFINITELY glad I didn't miss out on them :) Lets even ignore the look, just functionally they are REALLY nice. My chest has become a major erogenous zone.... if i woulda missed out on the chest growth, I doubt I woulda had the development of that P:
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pebbles

I think I mentioned in the other thread that you'd probably get the effects you want from partial testosersone supression rather than estrogen supplimentation.
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fingerscrossed

pebbles, what do you mean "partial testosterone suppression"? are you talking about a low dosage of spiro? if so, wouldn't that just give you osteoporosis in the long run from low testosterone?
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dentifrice

Same question here.

Having low dose of anti-T will make few T and few E... and having few hormone isn't too bad for the health generally ?
Aux sombres héros de l'amer
Qui ont su traverser les océans du vide
:eusa_boohoo:
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