Progesterone

[JohannaJohn]

For some odd reason, the depression I lived with for over 30 years completely evaporated 5 days after I started Prometrium.

I take Prometrium orally once per day with my PM meds.  I do also take Finasteride, but in the AM.  They do not appear to be counteracting one another.

I tried sublingual once.  The taste was not pleasant.  I only take my Estradiol tablets sublingually.

One further curiosity:  I have noticed that if I stop taking Prometrium for a few days (5-7 days), when I restart the capsules my breasts become tender & seem to become fuller a week or two later.  This has happened 3 times since I started Prometrium at the end of Jan 2014.

I habitually take all my meds (apart from the sublingual E) with a few fluid ounces of full pulp orange juice.

My depression has been gone for 5 months now.  Apart from the occasional mini-breaks, I will not be stopping the only medication (of many tried) that has successfully cleared away my depression.

I think the micronized progesterone I have taken sublingually for just 4 weeks now is primarily what makes me so calm and happy now.

I want to take micronized P every day, again and again and again.

I FEEL so right!

Johanna

[Apples Mk.II]

Mine got lost... I have moved from cycling to all the time since I get no negative effects. I really need to hope for an areola increase, or it's under the breast scars with the BA.

Overall I don't feel a lot different. Getting up from bed is easier again, my libido won't back to sleep, and the sense of peace maybe dampened. I feel an it on my nipples, but nothing like sore growth spurt breasts.

The biggest problem is junk food cravings. Craming a salad in my stomach is HARD now.

[anjaq]

I take progesterone under my sublingual in the morning. So, can I put it on my scalp at night instead and get the same effect from the P internally and also get hair benefit?

I am not 100% sure how the effect would relate, so if transdermal would be near as effective as sublingual. I would rather suggest to keep the sublingual (why in the mornings? Are you then not sleepy?) and add something for the scalp in the venings for the hair benefit. I like gel there as it is not making the hair oily. If you use the contents of the capsules or progesterone cream (can be self made by mixing the contents of the capsules thoroughly with lotion - 5 capsules per 10 grams of lotion), it is oily and I dont like that in the hair so much.

[KayXo]

In the worst case vaginal is like using it transdermally but keeping it from drying out - essentially allowing all of the contents to be absorbed by the vaginal lining.

But from the few studies I've read using transdermal progesterone in cream or gel, the absorption is VERY poor and the effect is mostly local.

[anjaq]

But from the few studies I've read using transdermal progesterone in cream or gel, the absorption is VERY poor and the effect is mostly local.

One reason for this is the low P4 content of the Gels. Mine has 10 mg P4 in 1g Gel. Creams often have 5% or less P4. You don't put 10 grams of gel on you, usually. And then there is evaporation, just like in the estradiol gels - once the gel has dried, it is not entering the skin anymore. Thats why gels have a low efficiancy. A key to increasing efficiancy is that you need to make sure all of the P4 in the product is fuly absorbed by the skin, so a constantly moist environment like the inside of a vagina would mean that all the content can be absorbed - where else would it go. Of course it may be that it is not as good as sublingual or rectal application. Oral is worse though as most of the P4 is transformed by the liver into substances that are also nice though (making you happy, less anxious and a bit sleepy). If I ever manage to get my P4 values tested again in the next weeks I will switch to 200 mg vaginal a day and see what comes out of it as a serum value.

[KayXo]

One reason for this is the low P4 content of the Gels. Mine has 10 mg P4 in 1g Gel. Creams often have 5% or less P4.

The studies I was referring to used creams and gels with much higher content of P4 than this and yet levels in the blood were VERY low, 1 ng/ml and less.

a constantly moist environment like the inside of a vagina would mean that all the content can be absorbed

My vagina and possibly most of post-op transwomen are not as moist as ciswomen. This reduces quite significantly absorption. And even in ciswomen, levels weren't that high.

[anjaq]

Hmm - I think at least for ciswomen it works pretty great:

I agree that with a reconstructed vagina it may differ from that though.
Sadly for me to test this in such a detail would cost some 100 $$ and acces to a microplatereader which I would have to beg for with some previous coworkers.
Sublingually however my P4 serum value was 6 ng/ml which is not too bad I think. Orally it was only 1.8 ng/ml - but admittedly it is hard to judge on this alone since it was not perfectly timed. I am keen to see my serum level on vaginal application. I need to make an appointment...

Can you cite me the studies about the ineffectiveness of high dosage P4 creas? All studies I saw up to now (but I have not done a thorough search) was on rather low dosages, targetted mainly for local treatments and the low transfer to the serum was desired in these cases.

[KayXo]

Hmm - I think at least for ciswomen it works pretty great:

The Cmax (maximum value) was around 17 nmol/L or about 5 ng/ml and average around 12.5 nmol/L which is about 4 ng/dl when values during just the luteal phase of a woman's menstrual range from about 3-20 ng/dl. I would say the levels obtained from this study are quite low. 

[JohannaJohn]

Quote...I am not 100% sure how the effect would relate, so if transdermal would be near as effective as sublingual. I would rather suggest to keep the sublingual (why in the mornings? Are you then not sleepy?) and add something for the scalp in the venings for the hair benefit. I like gel there as it is not making the hair oily. If you use the contents of the capsules or progesterone cream (can be self made by mixing the contents of the capsules thoroughly with lotion - 5 capsules per 10 grams of lotion), it is oily and I dont like that in the hair so much. Unquote

Good point, Anjaq, about feeling sleepy.  I almost always take my progesterone near bedtime because frequently it makes me a little sleepy, which is fine at bedtime.

I am totally convinced that micronized progesterone is the best way to go, and sublingually for me, but you have a vagina so that should work well, too, if your vaginal tissue permits the entry of the micronized progesterone into your bloodstream rapidly.

Where I live in Latin America, micronized progesterone is easy to obtain, legally and openly, at most large corner pharmacies.

I have heard that in some areas, countries, or regions of the world, that micronized progesterone can be hard to obtain, so I feel blessed to have this where I live because I want to keep taking my normal amount every day every day every it makes me feel VERY great, and very calm...it makes me feel like I can handle all things in life with calm.

Micronized progeterone is wonderful...and super powerful.

4 weeks on hormones, I already have always-erect protruding nipples that are starting to be noticeable under my shirt, if I wear my shirt tight.

No more body odor...that stopped after 3 weeks...wow that was fast.

No more acne of any kind on my face...wow, incredible.

The psychological results of micronized progesterone in the amounts I take are phenomenal, but are of course inside my head and not "proveable" directly...

My PHYSICAL results are indisputable.  PHYSICAL changes no one can claim these results aren't real with my body.

The physical realities about protruding nipples and white bumps on my areolas and nipples and no body odor and no acne...these are all fabulous, totally GENUINE, results in just 4 weeks!!!

What can I say...wowowowowow!

Hugs to all,
Johanna

[Rachel]

I will switch to taking the progesterone to before bed.

I am always tired and get 5 hours a night to sleep; however, I seldom sleep the 5 hours.  I have a super high stress job and am on call. My responsibilities are 24/7. I never noticed the progesterone sleep effect but if it helps then I am all for it.

[Hikari]

I will switch to taking the progesterone to before bed.

I am always tired and get 5 hours a night to sleep; however, I seldom sleep the 5 hours.  I have a super high stress job and am on call. My responsibilities are 24/7. I never noticed the progesterone sleep effect but if it helps then I am all for it.

It doesn't seem to make me very tired. I understand that the Dutasteride I take might inhibit this effect a bit though.

[JohannaJohn]

It doesn't seem to make me very tired. I understand that the Dutasteride I take might inhibit this effect a bit though.

I would say it doesn't me TIRED...it makes me SLEEPY which I feel is very different from tired.

[KayXo]

It doesn't seem to make me very tired. I understand that the Dutasteride I take might inhibit this effect a bit though.

Yes by inhibiting the conversion of progesterone and other hormones to sedative substances like allopregnanolone.

I would say it doesn't me TIRED...it makes me SLEEPY which I feel is very different from tired.

It makes me tired, sleepy, relaxed, giddy, high. Also depends when I take it.

[JohannaJohn]

Well, progesterone definitely makes me feel great, for sure about THAT!

4 and a half weeks in, I would say it borders on being a mild "euphoria", sometimes.  Maybe a little less "euphoria" now in the last week or so compared to the first 3 weeks plus, but man oh man does it keep me most of the time feeling very positive.

Does it make me "high"?  I don't know.  I don't take drugs at all, I don't drink alcohol at all, and I don't use tobacco at all.  I take no health medications at all.  I am 56 years old, so it is great I stay healthy with no harmful substances and I am fortunate enough that my blood pressure is good 120/80 and sometimes 110/70 which is good for my age.  I walk for exercise, and I live in a hot Latin climate so I go swimming multiple times a week because there is a pool at my apartment complex.

So it is hard to say if mild "euphoria" qualifies as "high" -- I am not a a psychologist so I am not sure.

What do other here think about this?

All the best,
Johanna

[Lady_Oracle]

Hmm I've been on progesterone since I first started hrt. Now that I'm on shots for estrogen I definitely notice P's initial effects more. From the sleepiness to the mild euphoria. On pills it was difficult to notice any changes.

[KayXo]

Could be that orally, if estrogen and progesterone are both taken, there is some kind of interaction that affects how progesterone is metabolized as both hormones, I think, are metabolized by the same enzymes or some of the same enzymes. So when estrogen is taken out the equation and taken parenterally, progesterone is metabolized differently, resulting in increased sedative effects. Just speculating...

In my case, switching to estrogen shots has definitely enhanced P's effects on me (i.e. softening of skin/hair, if that is in fact caused by progesterone). Could well be that when I switched to injections, because of my E levels shooting up quite significantly and remaining high for much longer (vs. sublingually), my body became more sensitive to progesterone (E increases progesterone receptors) and that's why I feel more P's effects. I'm happy.

I don't think I noticed a greater sedative effect from it though, I'd even have to say it is less than before but perhaps, that's because my body has gotten used to it. I do, however, notice a stronger euphoric, sedative effect when I take my P with food that is very fatty as opposed to lacking fat or without food.

[JohannaJohn]

Kay, those are some interesting points you make about injections vs. sublingually. and some possible interaction effects of E and P.

I am just 4 and a half week on hormones E and P, and my hair on my head SEEMS little softer...just maybe a small diference so far.

Part of the face on my skin SEEMS, anyway, to be softer and smoother, maybe with even a very slight glistening although the shine or glistening part may be my imagination, I am not sure...but certainly part of my face is smoother and softer.

I don't feel big moods swings like genetic girls do, at least not so far...

I wonder if progesterone make genetic girls feel mild euphoria sometimes?  Or is this only the case for trans girls?

Does anyone know about this?

Johanna

[Paige]

Hi All,
This thread is one of my favorites.  Thanks for all the information everyone.

I was just wondering what you think the effects would be for a male to take progesterone with low dose E or no E at all.  I understand men also produce progesterone and it diminishes as they get older.  Some speculate this is why DHT levels increase.   I'm particular wondering if low dose E and progesterone would ease gender dysphoria.  The euphoria being describe by people on progesterone makes me wonder if this might help.

Thanks,
Paige 

[Jessica Merriman]

Yes, there is a low dose protocol for people not wishing a full transition to ease gender dysphoria. I am not sure "P" is a part of it though.

[Eva Marie]

Every month when I start a new cycle the experience is different. Last month about 4 hours after taking the first P pill I was raging. This month about 6 hours after taking the first P pill I was weeping in my office at work. *sigh*......

I hope these ups and downs even out soon.

OTOH I owe every woman that's been in my life an apology, because I never understood what PMS was like and I wasn't sympathetic enough to what they were feeling each month. Lesson learned.