FTM Stealth Shaming?

[Dark.Knight]

Why is there stealth shaming? Hope its not a dumb question, but still fresh to being FTM (well knowing a term for myself). I noticed on some sites, forums, topics, etc. men are being almost shamed for being stealth or working on going stealth. We spend life savings on surgery to match up our outer shell, to match the male guts, never miss a T-shot to stay the way we feel we should be, exercise to rid of feminine hips pre and post T, opt out of some surgeries because they want make us look male/real enough, or function real enough etc. We spend so much time to transition to be male and be identified as male by others. God forbid some one calls you she who hasn't seen you and is confused? Don't take this wrong I'm listing off how many feel including myself. We don't want to be mis-gendered, don't want to be identified as our birth shells. We shoot to be the men we are or should be and want to pass, and be able to mark M on papers, yet its bad to be stealth.  We work our butts off spend thousands to pass and never go back. We fight off dysphoria by transitioning into who we want to be. So why are guys being called out, shamed, and harassed by other FTMs for not wanting to be all foot forward hi I'm FTM!  Its individuals choice, and for safety, I see why go stealth, if no one can separate the difference between cis/trans why can't being stealth be okay. Why must a guy disclose he was born female and transitioned into the man you see today. You were always a man, you just have a disorder so why disclose or be shunned for not disclosing you are a transsexual. 

I would love to be stealth one day and live as a male with no other knowledge of a past tense of female to others. I'm not openly out or on T yet, I pass sometimes and it feels good when no one questions or hesitates or apologizes for saying sir, mr, bruh, bro, man, etc. I love it. I feel being stealth there wont be a second thought to who I truly am and that's what we all want so why do guys get shamed? I think my music career could ruin going stealth to an extent, but my Aerospace major wont so its like the battle of passion and the idea my music career wont blossom to millions so why give up on the thought?

If you are safely at a point post surgeries, T, etc. why be shammed? Does anyone have a answer on why they shame or why guys are shamed?

[Simon]

Never seen guys being shamed for being stealth. I've seen where guys encourage other guys to be out but never anything berating them if they chose not to.

I'll never be anything other than stealth except to those whom I choose to disclose to. I'm not ashamed. It just gets old after awhile discussing it and being the oddity. It's nobody's business unless I make it their business which isn't often.

I wonder if these guys you're seeing do this are new to transition. That would make sense because maybe they think at this point it makes them edgy or special. After awhile even those who are loud n' proud usually settle down because it gets old after awhile.

[sneakersjay]

I'm stealth simply from the standpoint that it's nobody else's business what my history is.  I don't tell people unless they are medical personnel that need to know (ie I didn't disclose for a minor medical procedure done by a doc that didn't know me, nor when I've gone to places for testing, etc), or a potential intimate partner.  That's it.

I outed myself once and totally regretted it; all they wanted to know was about my former life as F, which is what I'm trying to totally forget.  I also had to out myself at a notary public once shortly after transition, and was given the stink-eye and treated poorly.

So yeah.  I have reasons for not wanting to tell everyone I meet that I'm trans.


Jay

[mangoslayer]

I've seen stealth shaming a lot online and even in real life (in the few spaces where I am or was out). Their logic was that by being stealth I am transphobic/perpetuating transphobia. That I am "hiding" because I hate trans people or that I owe it to "the community" to be out and fight transphobia.

[Nygeel]

I've heard more shaming towards getting bottom surgery than to going stealth.

I think what a lot of guys feel is that there aren't that many people out there who have transition behind them, and are leading their lives like any other guy. It's more often that people know of situations where somebody just came out, or hasn't been in transition for long compared to somebody just living their life like any other guy. Those sort of "success stories" where guys lead averagey lives don't really exist because those guys are stealth.

That's really my only big beef with everybody going stealth. Not the greatest out role models out there.

[Jack_M]

Haven't seen much stealth shaming personally. Perhaps there's an element of jealousy for some who can't be stealth, I dunno, I don't see that we have to assume trans individuals have to wave a trans flag or something. If we pass and choose to live stealth that's our choice. If we choose to wave a flag then that's our choice too. Both are acceptable. I don't think stealth people let the team down because I think it's good for the world to know that there's trans individuals out there and the only way they'd ever know it is if that individual told them. Puts the ignorant on their toes a little. Some folk just have the idea that all trans women are like OTT drag queens and trans men are just butch and obvious women. But that's far from the case and having a stealth community out there proves that. It's like being in a war, not everyone will fight the same battles, but we all fight for the same team.

[Simon]

That's really my only big beef with everybody going stealth. Not the greatest out role models out there.

There is at least a hundred (at least out online) guys on YT. Then there's Ian Harvie, Chaz Bono, Jamison Green, Loren Cameron, Lucas Silveira (lead singer of The Cliks), Malcolm Himschoot, Balian Buschbaum, Rocco Katastrophe, etc. There are PLENTY of transguys out there for the youth to look up to. I'm positive in the next decade there will be even more to hit mainstream media. In the past decade the visibility has skyrocketed.

Not saying that you have but (for this argument's sake), anyone who has shamed a transguy for being stealth because "there aren't enough role models" is blind or just being obnoxious.

[wheat thins are delicious]

Never seen guys being shamed for being stealth. I've seen where guys encourage other guys to be out but never anything berating them if they chose not to.

I'll never be anything other than stealth except to those whom I choose to disclose to. I'm not ashamed. It just gets old after awhile discussing it and being the oddity. It's nobody's business unless I make it their business which isn't often.

I wonder if these guys you're seeing do this are new to transition. That would make sense because maybe they think at this point it makes them edgy or special. After awhile even those who are loud n' proud usually settle down because it gets old after awhile.

Stealth shaming is rampant on Facebook trans groups.  The guys I've seen doing this are definitely not new to transition.  They've been transitioning/transitioned for longer than even I have.  I see a lot of it being that they think that stealth men don't think trans men are real men.  I mean those were legitimately their words.  Or that we are "hiding who we really are" by being stealth.  I'm really a man, so I don't see how living my life as a man is hiding.  Nor do I see how that means I think trans men aren't real men.  I see living stealth as keeping my private medical history just that, my private medical history.

I see a part of it as they don't view themselves as real men and that's why they feel the need to be so loud and open about it, or they don't want to lose that part of them that makes them seem special.

[aleon515]

I think that those who want and can be open, it's good, but I understand reasons for being stealth too. I think if you aren't entirely binary it's easier to be open, as I don't feel that I am entirely "man"-- though male yes. There are safety reasons as well. To me we are all brothers whether or not we are out or stealth. IMO, though there is actually a bit of a difference in the way open and stealth people see the world. I have definitely noticed this on the board here, but not shaming. I have to stretch myself to see it and I would guess that people have to stress to see why I'd be out. I feel that there is actually some difference in how we view being transgender.

OTOH, I did a video on why I am out, and didn't get any negative comments on it. I think people understand (and I was clear to state it) that I feel it is my decision.

I think it is important for *some* people to be out and more people than there are now, but that, I think, is probably going to happen.
BTW, there is a list of the 100 most influential trans people and there could be many more names on it, imo.

--Jay

[Simon]

I'm really a man, so I don't see how living my life as a man is hiding.  Nor do I see how that means I think trans men aren't real men.  I see living stealth as keeping my private medical history just that, my private medical history.

I see a part of it as they don't view themselves as real men and that's why they feel the need to be so loud and open about it, or they don't want to lose that part of them that makes them seem special.

Stop the presses...me and Wheat agree on something, lol.

I think like you do. This is a medical condition that I am correcting. However, as you're probably aware there are guys who see this as their identity. A lot of their lives in wrapped up in the fact that they are transsexuals, and that is fine. Whatever floats their boats.

I like being open with other trans people but not in the cis world. I respect those who think differently no matter how they want to conduct their lives but they have no reason to down those on the other side of things.

Now I kinda want to check out the trans groups on FB but I don't have a FB set up for trans stuff yet.

[Nygeel]

There is at least a hundred (at least out online) guys on YT. Then there's Ian Harvie, Chaz Bono, Jamison Green, Loren Cameron, Lucas Silveira (lead singer of The Cliks), Malcolm Himschoot, Balian Buschbaum, Rocco Katastrophe, etc. There are PLENTY of transguys out there for the youth to look up to. I'm positive in the next decade there will be even more to hit mainstream media. In the past decade the visibility has skyrocketed.

Not saying that you have but (for this argument's sake), anyone who has shamed a transguy for being stealth because "there aren't enough role models" is blind or just being obnoxious.

You just gave the names of a few guys I feel aren't good role models.

[Simon]

You just gave the names of a few guys I feel aren't good role models.

Just because they're not ideal for you doesn't mean they wouldn't be for someone else.

On a side note, the very first transguy I seen was Loren Cameron in the back of a Advocate magazine in either '96 or '97. I may or may not be a fan of his but his visibility raised awareness to a young kid in the South who never knew transition was an option. The visibility is what matters just as much as the message...and there is plenty of visibility these days.

[Edge]

My role models are all cis guys (not on purpose).
Personally, I think success stories are good to balance out all the bad stuff we hear about, but forcing someone to be out would be one of those bad things. Did that make sense?

[Nygeel]

Just because they're not ideal for you doesn't mean they wouldn't be for someone else.

On a side note, the very first transguy I seen was Loren Cameron in the back of a Advocate magazine in either '96 or '97. I may or may not be a fan of his but his visibility raised awareness to a young kid in the South who never knew transition was an option. The visibility is what matters just as much as the message...and there is plenty of visibility these days.

I meant good role models in general.

[Simon]

My role models are all cis guys (not on purpose).
Personally, I think success stories are good to balance out all the bad stuff we hear about, but forcing someone to be out would be one of those bad things. Did that make sense?

Makes perfect sense.

I also don't have any trans role models and never have. There are trans guys I would like to meet and possible befriend but all of the men I would like to be like are cis.

To me that is the whole purpose of being trans. To get to the point where I am comfortable with myself in cis society. To blend in and I'm almost there. Once my top is done and the final few pieces of paper are taken care of next year I'll be where I have always wanted to be. I know bottom is probably five years away but I'll eventually get there too.

I meant good role models in general.

I know what you meant but all of the guys I mentioned aren't bad guys. They're not druggies or criminals. They just have different ideals than you do, but that doesn't mean their thinking won't mesh with someone else out there looking for a trans role model.

[Dark.Knight]

As one of you guys mentioned. Its not so much on this forum actually I've witnessed none on here, its a safe haven for me being so new. I don't feel ashamed or dumb when I say something incorrect, I'm not kicked under a bus for being pre t and already talking going stealth, I get humor and humility out of you men and our sisters, this place is nice and supportive, but other social outlets and forums not so much. I thank all of you for the comfort I get here.
The shaming has come from guys who are old cats at this downing other old cats and new or pre T's. Its like an entitlement thing. They feel entitled to see how he does it? How is the girl he wanted for years from a far falling for him, how is he patted on the back and wrestling with other guys? Entitlement to see how is phallo looks on transbucket, but he doesn't post because he feels like a male with a disorder or awful now cured disease, who need not  tote it around.
I don't mind informing anonymously the knowledge I've gained or showing what could be, if my phalloplasty could show guys that they do not look bad, they function, aren't just a rolled up meat pocket, but outside of anonymity online no thank you. No seminar for me or outing myself when I feel there is nothing to out. I mean I'm a man just like a cis or trans male.
I think its said some of our brothers have that inside them to down someone who has been through the struggle of transition, acceptance, and living, be happy they came out on the other end and they've done all they can do to stop their dysphoria no shun/shame them. We are going for the same thing not to be a sub gender but male. To fix a disorder. It just sickens/saddens me pre-T that this is what I may face and have faced for saying already. I want deny a trans brother or sub him cause hes not stealth but we all know the struggle why the bs.

[chuck]

As one of you guys mentioned. Its not so much on this forum actually I've witnessed none on here, its a safe haven for me being so new. I don't feel ashamed or dumb when I say something incorrect, I'm not kicked under a bus for being pre t and already talking going stealth, I get humor and humility out of you men and our sisters, this place is nice and supportive, but other social outlets and forums not so much. I thank all of you for the comfort I get here.
The shaming has come from guys who are old cats at this downing other old cats and new or pre T's. Its like an entitlement thing. They feel entitled to see how he does it? How is the girl he wanted for years from a far falling for him, how is he patted on the back and wrestling with other guys? Entitlement to see how is phallo looks on transbucket, but he doesn't post because he feels like a male with a disorder or awful now cured disease, who need not  tote it around.
I don't mind informing anonymously the knowledge I've gained or showing what could be, if my phalloplasty could show guys that they do not look bad, they function, aren't just a rolled up meat pocket, but outside of anonymity online no thank you. No seminar for me or outing myself when I feel there is nothing to out. I mean I'm a man just like a cis or trans male.
I think its said some of our brothers have that inside them to down someone who has been through the struggle of transition, acceptance, and living, be happy they came out on the other end and they've done all they can do to stop their dysphoria no shun/shame them. We are going for the same thing not to be a sub gender but male. To fix a disorder. It just sickens/saddens me pre-T that this is what I may face and have faced for saying already. I want deny a trans brother or sub him cause hes not stealth but we all know the struggle why the bs.

I am 100 percent stealth. My family knows, my lover knows and thats it.  I have experienced this "stealth shaming".  There was a bit of it in a post a month back about the label "transgender" I told guys i was completely stealth and that I thought that sometimes people running around screaming about being "transgender" can be a detriment to trannsexuals. The argument didnt really get anywhere other than "ive stated my opinion, goodbye" But I was asked why I was on this forum if I didnt identify as transsexual. 

Anyway I think the shaming comes form two places - a twinge of jelousy and a feeling of betrayal. Some guys feel like they could never be stealth, and some guys probably will never be stealth no matter how hard they try. Be it physical differences, financial or interpersonal reasons. The betrayal part is this silly notion that it is somehow my job to educate the world about transsexuality. Fortuneately for me, it's not. If someone is rambling on about how disgusting 'trannies' are I usually tell them "Hey, if it makes that person more comfortable, then it's ok with me".

As far as the phallo thing. I have experienced lots of pre surgery guys feeling like it is somehow my responsibility to share photographs of my genitals. No thanks hefe. My dick looks great, passes in a locker room (although lots of comments/stares/attention since it is large for a flaccid penis). I did post pictures up in another group, but I took them down. I dont want my dick floating around as an example of an ftm phalloplasty.

I think in the end we all just make the best deicisions possible. I spent time, money and emotions to be that "kinda buff guy with a beard" not "that guy who used to be a girl'. My choice. I dont actually care if people respect it. We all have parts of our lives that we dont share, this one is mine.

[Edge]

As far as the phallo thing. I have experienced lots of pre surgery guys feeling like it is somehow my responsibility to share photographs of my genitals. No thanks hefe.

What? You don't want to share your private parts with the whole world? what a shocker! Sorry I'm being sarcastic. It's just odd how many people think trans* people's genitals are somehow less private than anyone else's genitals. It's your body. You decide who to show it to.

[aleon515]

DK, You are pre-T and stealth. Now I am really impressed!

--Jay

[Nygeel]

Seeing more phallo results would give some guys a little more hope about surgical options.