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You have to be a woman first before you transition

Started by angelats, June 10, 2013, 07:15:52 PM

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Tristan

im sorry i did not mean to offend anyone. those are all big consequences mentioned earlier when it comes to transition. 
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Naomi

Quote from: Tristan on June 15, 2013, 03:02:02 PM
wait so you can be transsexual and not transition? but wouldn't you still be really depressed or something if you did not. most likely leading up to suicide? i always thought to be transsexual meant you had to transition or you would be self destructive and depression/ suicide and all that stuff...
wo..... learn somethin new every day

In my case I need to transition, I don't believe that I could honestly go on without doing it.
あたしは性同一性障害を患っているよ。

aka, when I admitted to myself who I was, not when my dysphoria started :P
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Tristan

Quote from: Naomi on June 15, 2013, 08:52:59 PM
In my case I need to transition, I don't believe that I could honestly go on without doing it.
thats what i was starting to think from some of the post i have seen on this site the past 2 years. at first i thought it was doctors who decided you had to transition then i thought it was a need to do thing or people died. idk what to think now though from what everyone is saying? ???
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kyh

Quote from: Tristan on June 15, 2013, 09:19:22 PM
thats what i was starting to think from some of the post i have seen on this site the past 2 years. at first i thought it was doctors who decided you had to transition then i thought it was a need to do thing or people died. idk what to think now though from what everyone is saying? ???

All transsexual people have some amount of dysphoria, but not all of them have dysphoria that's strong enough that they need to transition. Though sometimes they have circumstances in their life that prevent them transitioning, even if they really want to. So yeah, not all transsexuals transition. :)
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warlockmaker

wow. I grew up not even understanding that there was such things as transgender, I knew i was not normal but associated that with being gay and knew I was not that. I know differently now, but i had obligations so I built up a real male personna and kept my secret. i still hide it but its harder and harder.
When we first start our journey the perception and moral values all dramatically change in wonderment. As we evolve further it all becomes normal again but the journey has changed us forever.

SRS January 21st,  2558 (Buddhist calander), 2015
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Just Shelly

Quote from: Renee on June 15, 2013, 04:09:16 PM
I really don't buy into that idea. I wasn't a woman before I transitioned and honestly, I really won't say I am one now. Most of the time, I feel like some kind of freak actually.  I do know what I would like others to see me as and for the most part they do or they humour me at least, which I can deal with most days if that's the best I can get.

I can relate with this as well...I never felt that feeling of a woman trapped in a mans body!! I think because I reluctantly accepted my fate....I can honestly say after two years of living legally as a woman I am a woman "now" ...the difference still being that I am not to the point of saying only the words "I am a woman"

The last two years has made me the woman I never knew I was or could be....these last two years have been nothing like I had imagined years ago when constantly being tormented of feeling I needed to be the person I  thought I was...the last two years has instead shown me I always that person.

I only feel like a freak if I let myself!!! and most days I like who I am now!!!
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Jean24

I know what she is trying to imply, I think most of us do. There will always be some doubt for me till I go through with it though. This is because my GID seems to be more mild than many transwomen who make a full transition.

-My GID started when I was about 6 as opposed to being present in the earliest memories of most transsexual people.
-I believe that my GID was caused somewhat by nurture (but being in my nature as well); an absence of other men through most of my life, being raised by women, and with my father abandoning my mother and me when I was 3 months or so. This is at odds with what most people believe, in that being transsexual is 100% nature caused.
-Most people feel so strongly compelled to begin transition before they reach their mid 20s and yet it took what amounts to a mid life crisis to force me out of the closet.
-Correct me if I am wrong, but one of the key symptoms of GID is cross dressing. While I don't have a problem with other people doing it, I personally couldn't due to my philosophy: I want to dress in clothes that look good on me, and I don't think I (a lanky 5'10" guy) would look good in women's clothing. If I take hormones,  fill out, maybe get some FFS, then that's a completely different story.

I could go on, but I'd rather focus on what would really make me happy. Would living as a woman for the rest of my life make me happy? Hell yes. I've been a man for a while and I really can't do it anymore. Everything feels backwards. The more people I tell about my issues, the better I feel and the more support I get. I'm lucky in that regard. All I need to do is talk to a professional to help me figure out who I really am and how far I should expect to go to feel comfortable. Not that I expect them to plan the route for me but to guide me through my journey. I hope I have helped you.
Trying to take it one day at a time :)
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noeleena

Hi,

So one needes to be a woman before one transitions,

. well try this,   i did not transtion from male to female or female to male.
was not posiable ether way. i did not live as a woman because i had not grown into being a woman.  i did not live as a woman to find out if i could live the rest of my life as one, or be accepted in to  ( my )  a  womens world,

The real life liveing of two years or what ever,  why, did not  need to & more to the point would not,

You see some of us are different , in many aspects of our life, hormones mind Emotions & how we are wired or put to gether,

Now what does  need to be a woman mean before trantsion  what is a woman first off, & how does one become one,

From where i stand . im a female not compleat in all aspects im missing my womb so that being the case am i then not a female,  you may answer that. , though you need more info. yes im female a intersexed female, born wrong  , well maybe not depends on how you see it,

Am i a woman my peers say so from thier point of view nothing to do with me or at my telling them i am,  this is how they see percive & understand me, & accept who i am,   now my hormones are mixed & changes took place 20 years ago well started  from then,   i have grown  into a woman, nothing i did, or tryed to do it all came natrualy ,

Yes iv had corrective surgerys that even did not make me a woman.  though wonderfull going through, another story,

before birth at conception as it is i was programed as female thats were it starts,  now there can & are differences to ones body just because we are female does not mean all aspects of  our body is female mine was not hence being intersexed, both male / female.  now how much will depend on many factors, too many to go through here,

Now can one be a woman before or after one transtions  depends  on the person & no one can answer that & have every one the same what happens to one will be very different for another,

say a 16 year old would she be counted as a woman or even a 12 year old what about a 70 year old,  in your thinking a 70 year old man decide's he wonts to  live as a women well like one, & have surgerys,  you need to look beyound the SQ or box,

for some its imposiable & will never happen  because there are some girls who never become women  again many reasons.

one size will never ever fit every one,

...noeleena...
Hi. from New Zealand, Im a woman of difference & intersex who is living life to the full.   we have 3 grown up kids and 11 grand kid's 6 boy's & 5 girl's,
Jos and i are still friends and  is very happy with her new life with someone.
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kelly_aus

Quote from: Gene24 on June 17, 2013, 11:10:48 PM
I know what she is trying to imply, I think most of us do. There will always be some doubt for me till I go through with it though. This is because my GID seems to be more mild than many transwomen who make a full transition.

My level of gender dysphoria is so low as to be almost non-existent - it hasn't prevented me transitioning..

Quote-My GID started when I was about 6 as opposed to being present in the earliest memories of most transsexual people.

I didn't know what was up until I was 12.

Quote-I believe that my GID was caused somewhat by nurture (but being in my nature as well); an absence of other men through most of my life, being raised by women, and with my father abandoning my mother and me when I was 3 months or so. This is at odds with what most people believe, in that being transsexual is 100% nature caused.

That's fine, beleive what you want. :) The admittedly limited research doesn't agree.

Quote-Most people feel so strongly compelled to begin transition before they reach their mid 20s and yet it took what amounts to a mid life crisis to force me out of the closet.

Most of the people I know who are transitioning are 30+ - myself included. I think the younger crowd are just better at shameless self-promotion, so we tend to notice them more.. :P

Quote-Correct me if I am wrong, but one of the key symptoms of GID is cross dressing. While I don't have a problem with other people doing it, I personally couldn't due to my philosophy: I want to dress in clothes that look good on me, and I don't think I (a lanky 5'10" guy) would look good in women's clothing. If I take hormones,  fill out, maybe get some FFS, then that's a completely different story.

The key symptom of Gender Dysphoria is the persistent feeling that one's physical gender and mental gender are mismatched.

Cross dressing is a coping mechanism for some, no more, no less.. It's not a symptom. 

QuoteI could go on, but I'd rather focus on what would really make me happy. Would living as a woman for the rest of my life make me happy? Hell yes. I've been a man for a while and I really can't do it anymore. Everything feels backwards. The more people I tell about my issues, the better I feel and the more support I get. I'm lucky in that regard. All I need to do is talk to a professional to help me figure out who I really am and how far I should expect to go to feel comfortable. Not that I expect them to plan the route for me but to guide me through my journey. I hope I have helped you.

You seem to think the 'standard trans narrative' is some kind of gospel - it's not. I'm not even convinced that it's true for any one.

We all follow our pwn paths, we all have our own truths. If this has been your journey, it's just as valid as any other - even if it's not the same.
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Northern Jane

Quote from: Kelly the Trans-Rebel on June 18, 2013, 03:41:37 AMYou seem to think the 'standard trans narrative' is some kind of gospel - it's not. I'm not even convinced that it's true for any one.

You have to remember that the standard transsexual narrative originated in the 1950s and 60s when the only ones who "came out" were the most severely afflicted and coming out was an act of absolute desperation. Even "coming out" was a bit of a misnomer because the vast majority of these young people had never been "in" - they had never fit their birth gender and their 'difference' was obvious to everyone around them. Their number were very small - in the informal network of the day I knew only about a dozen in the whole population of the Great Lakes and eastern seaboard - and the thing that struck me was how nearly everyone had the same life story even in the days before transsexualism was talked about in the media.

Times have changed a great deal since then.
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Jess42

Quote from: Tristan on June 15, 2013, 07:19:45 PM
im sorry i did not mean to offend anyone. those are all big consequences mentioned earlier when it comes to transition.

You didn't offend me in the least. I guess I am more genderfluid or bigender or whatever else. In my perfect world I would be free to express both at the same time. I can kind of sorta' do that now at certain times without any negative consequences but not during everyday life though.
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angelats

Quote from: Northern Jane on June 18, 2013, 06:54:09 AM
You have to remember that the standard transsexual narrative originated in the 1950s and 60s when the only ones who "came out" were the most severely afflicted and coming out was an act of absolute desperation. Even "coming out" was a bit of a misnomer because the vast majority of these young people had never been "in" - they had never fit their birth gender and their 'difference' was obvious to everyone around them. Their number were very small - in the informal network of the day I knew only about a dozen in the whole population of the Great Lakes and eastern seaboard - and the thing that struck me was how nearly everyone had the same life story even in the days before transsexualism was talked about in the media.

Times have changed a great deal since then.

Hello Northern Jane

It's amazing what you all have gone through then only to become who and what you were to destined to be. I still consider transition one of the toughest things a person can do in a life time.
And you were the first then, when there was hardly understanding nor knowledge, but trial and error.
We all owe much to all of you, thank you.

"how nearly everyone had the same life story ..." I explain this to me, that they have to come to terms with what and who they were in the "in the 1950s and 60s ". And yes, i agree with you, those 
"were the most severely afflicted and coming out was an act of absolute desperation".

"Times have changed a great deal since then." Yes, and is still changing.

with kind regards
Angelats
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angelats

Quote from: Kelly the Trans-Rebel on June 18, 2013, 03:41:37 AM
You seem to think the 'standard trans narrative' is some kind of gospel - it's not. I'm not even convinced that it's true for any one.

Hello Kelly i agree.

I thought a lot about the 'standard trans narrative' . This narrative has its function, for example to transition, to understand what one is, that you are not alone and so on.

I tried to analyze my transsexual self perception mostly not in genetic, biological psychological terms and methods. I prefer some kind of anthropological, philosophical explanation of transsexuality.
Although i see genetics, biology and psychology as very valuable resource to recognize
what a human is and how a human reacts.

For example i do not know, whether i had a hormonal imbalance before birth, that made me this way. This would be some kind of biological explanation, but as long i have not the hard evidence this happened in my life, its some kind of act of faith, to suggest this as cause for my transsexual feelings.
Its just a theory, that does not convince me.

We all have our experiences and we have to figure it out what it means  to us.
A 'standard trans narrative' may help us to come to terms with what and who we are.
But i also do think we have to consider our unique, personal, specific experiences,
that differ from the 'standard trans narrative'.

With kind regards
Angelats
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Tristan

Ladies ladies lets just say transsexual means to be really cool and sparkle awesomeness
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kyh

Quote from: Tristan on June 18, 2013, 02:57:48 PM
Ladies ladies lets just say transsexual means to be really cool and sparkle awesomeness

<3
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Ltl89

I don't get the hostility to the trans narrative.  If it doesn't fit you, that's cool.  However, it is applicable to some of us.  While we all deviate in some way, that doesn't make any of our experiences less genuine than anyone else.  My experience fits in line with elements of the trans narrative, but does differ to some extent as well.  I know some people that it explains there overall experience and others that it doesn't at all.  Is it fair to say one or all of us are lying?  Perhaps we all have diverse lives and had different circumstances to face.  I don't like anyone trying to argue that one side is more relevant or honest than the other.  I think that's an unfair way to categorize the experiences of other's.  Let's respect one another here and cherish our diversity. :)
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Ltl89

Quote from: kyh on June 18, 2013, 03:40:56 PM
I think the danger of having a standard trans narrative is that there will be some transgender people who see this narrative, but don't see themselves or their own experiences in it, and so they feel that because they're not like so and so, they're not really trans. That's how I felt for a long long time. All the media I saw about trans people wasn't anything like myself. I never played with dolls, I never tried on my mom's clothes or her makeup, I never had any early memories of wanting to be a girl... Nobody helped me understand my feelings, and the standard trans narrative pushed me farther and farther away from my true path. In fact I felt alienated by all those documentaries of those young transgender girls who knew they were trans before they could walk and talk. I was so different from them. And they were all that I knew to be trans; they were the standard I never lived up to. Luckily I discovered this forum otherwise I'd have gone on living my life as a depressed, confused gay man.

I see what you mean.  My experience is an altered version of the trans narrative, but overall I feel it can be applied to me. I was a weird bigendered kid until I really understood what I was feeling around 10-11.  Nonetheless, I think your experience and that of other's here is just as valid.  I just hate when people say, "to be trans you need this to have happened or feel like this when you were 6".  We are all different.  I think we need to be more accepting of the diversity within our own community.  Unfortunately, some of the proponents of the trans narrative try to target other's as "not as trans", and some of those who hate the narrative try to say the other side is fabricating their experience.  I feel this is unfair and does us all a disservice.  I feel we can all educate each other without invalidating the experiences of others. 

In any event, I think we are on the same page here, just vocalizing it differently.  The great thing about this site is that we are all so different in many ways.  I love that because total homogeneity can be quite boring.
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kyh

I agree 100% :)

I would like to see more diverse stories of trans people emerging, so that all trans people will be able to understand that there's no one way to be trans, and that they really can be trans without fitting into the trans narrative.
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Naomi

So by request I guess this qualifies as a weird trans narrative?

As a child I did play with dolls and I role played as female when I played imagination games with my friends. However I picked up the fact that boys were not supposed to play with dolls and stopped. Not once did I ever think to myself as a child that I was not a boy. Though I did often try on my mom clothes. Otherwise I was seen by everyone, including myself, as a "normal" boy. One weird point though was that in elementary school I had a girl friend. We only ever kissed because we didn't know anything past that XD. I have also never liked school but I can't really say if that's because I am trans.

Come puberty and I highly enjoyed discovering my genitals, though I started to wish that I was female and thoughts started to creep into my mind. Still though I went on doing "male" things. Possible signs at this age were always picking female characters in games, and my thoughts/dreams. Still though I only saw myself as male. I didn't believe that it was possible for me to be anything but that, since no one had ever told me to the contrary. So I ignored the thoughts and told nobody.

Come college the frequency of my thoughts increased until it exploded on me. Somehow I managed to suppress GID / GD for the majority of my current life, but the sudden and intense onset of it has been really difficult and probably could have been avoided if someone had just educated me on the subject. So I guess the moral is diversity and more info please. <3
あたしは性同一性障害を患っているよ。

aka, when I admitted to myself who I was, not when my dysphoria started :P
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kelly_aus

Quote from: Naomi on June 18, 2013, 05:21:33 PM
So by request I guess this qualifies as a weird trans narrative?

Nope, not weird.. Just your narrative.. Different to mine and probably many others, doesn't make it any more or less valid..
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