help me

[dlee]

I feel like im going crazy, I'm a christian and I have just recently started having troubles with my faith. It's hard being a christian and trans because many Christians believe that you can just be cured or change all of a sudden as you accept Christ into your life. Many Christians say "your going to hell" or your an "abomination" which it says in the bible and it eats me up because I feel i'm doing nothing wrong but being myself. If I cant live my life as the woman I see myself I don't want to live at all. When I dream about my future I see myself as a woman I can't just see it any other way either that or nothing I don't want to be a guy and I just don't understand please help!

[my mother's other daughter]

There is a huge difference between following the specific messages of Jesus and following the Old Testament and what Paul and others had to say about Christianity and the church.  Jesus: love one another, the Beatitudes, judge not, turn the other cheek, etc. vs. the abominations spelled out in the OT with all the punishments, and Paul, Peter, etc. interpreting what Jesus' gospel is.  For me, following Jesus is rarely truly practiced by those who call themselves Christian.  The loving God of Jesus is not the judgemental God of the OT and often not the God that shows up in many churches.  Look within yourself, not to the judgement of others.

[warlockmaker]

Society has many prejudices and its a sign of their ignorance and a complete lack of empathy. The Christian faith has no prejudices and is compassionate. Yes they may question your commitment out of love and concern - try talking to the priest/minister you may be suprised at their support.

I know a tg mtf that came out at a Mormon church - she still is a member of the congregation.

Peace and love

[King Malachite]

Hand the Bible to whoever is telling you this and tell them to find the exact scripture and verse were it says that being transgender is a sin.  They won't be able to find it because it's not in there.

Have you checked out the website called transchristians.org  ?  It's a really great website that strives to help transgender Christians.

As for the whole abomination thing, there are plenty of things considered an abomination that we don't consider an abomination today.  Thankfully, we are justified by faith instead.

A fellow member here posted something about this a couple of years back.  I hope he doesn't mind me sharing it but I think it could help.

If they are like the religous people I know (including myself) - they'll likely want a more scriptural view of this. I found this a few days ago and it helped me. Also there are lots of minsters out there that support trans/that are trans. Getting them to talk with one could help.



*note not written by me*
Introduction

Religious faith has inspired some of the greatest accomplishments in human history. Conversely, it has also been misused to perpetrate some of the most horrific acts in human history.

In the same way, a belief system can be a very important source of strength, hope, and fellowship for some transsexuals. It has also caused a great deal of misery for others.

Some of us were raised in faiths that condemned our actions as immoral or wrong. Like the similar pressure we receive from society, it often makes us try to be someone we aren't. The problem with religious pressure is that the stakes are higher. Society's disapproval is nothing compared to jeopardizing one's soul, some feel. I believe transition is about living more truthfully, but many of us set up a massive deception to hide our feelings from others. Sometimes, we even deceive ourselves. When this deception is caused by religious pressure, it can create an emotionally wrenching and devastating dilemma when one realizes she has to transition.

One of the things you'll need to work on early in transition is reconciling your transsexual feelings with your beliefs. It's a part of self-acceptance. Occasionally, this is not possible, but if it's important to you, there are ways to find acceptance within most belief systems, and there are certainly transsexuals who share your faith who can lend you guidance and support.

Much of this writing centers on Christianity, since I am well-versed in the Bible and had a Christian upbringing. I also assume most readers have had some sort of Christian background. I have links covering other religions, although that information is not as complete as I wish.

Judaeo-Christianity and transsexuality

Leslie Feinberg, in the must-read Transgender Warriors, makes a very important point that the Hebrews are not to blame for the origins of trans oppression. Leslie points out correctly that the real problem was the patriarchal class division that occurs when any culture begins to produce enough surplus to accumulate wealth. However, as with most religions, the Hebrews sought to codify and enforce laws that maintained the priestly class as designated keepers of much of the surplus. Rules also sought to maintain the status of the wealthy. This meant vilifying other belief systems that posed a threat to the Hebrew status quo. This is certainly widespread, but the Hebrews were among the first to put it in writing that's survived.

One cannot deny that the rules written in Hebrew Scriptures have been used ever since to justify hatred of transgender people. Hebrew thought permeated Christian thought, which permeated Western thought. The Bible is probably the most influential literary work ever written. As with the passages below, it's important to put Hebrew anti-trans motivations in context, but it's clear that the Bible has been misused as one of the most damaging weapons against the transgender.

Know thine enemy

Probably the most intolerant religious group regarding transsexuality in America is fundamentalist evangelical Christianity. They are certainly the largest. Many of the more fundamentalist sects believe in their literal interpretation of the Bible. They feel the Bible's eternal truths, as they interpret them, back them up in saying transsexuals are an abomination in God's eyes.

Religious groups like Americans for Truth About Homosexuality make it their full-time mission to oppose transsexual activism and other things they see as morally corrupt. These people are heavily funded, large in number, and politically connected. I believe these groups are the gravest direct threat to transgender rights we face.

However, it doesn't take much looking to see that their condemnations of transsexuals do not follow a literal interpretation of the Bible. I've included examples that expose their hypocrisy and hatred below.

Passages from Scripture

Many Jews and Christians look to the Torah and/or Bible for guidance. Keep in mind that these Scriptures were compiled over almost 2,000 years. Think of how much different the world is since the time of Christ, and you'll get an idea of the kind of time the Bible spans. Because of the radical differences in their dates of origins and authorial intent, there are many places where the Bible contradicts itself. See the section below on eunuchs for a good example.

Unfortunately, this often makes it possible for both sides to find passages that echo their sentiments. As Shakespeare writes in Merchant of Venice, "The Devil can cite Scripture for his purpose." Scripture passages are in red, important comments are in purple.

The best thing to try to do when someone quotes a Bible passage out of context is to try to put it back, both in that chapter's context, and in historical context. Allow me an example:

Deuteronomy 22:5

I call this the cross-dressing rule, though it could be broadly interpreted to include transsexuals. They weren't throwing the term "transsexual" around four millennia ago.

    * A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman's garment; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God.

Hebrew law was codified by priests who believed these laws were based on the received word of God, and that Hebrews were God's chosen people. This attitude is often a recipe for disaster-- any time someone thinks they have a divine right to do something, you probably won't be able to convince them otherwise without considerable effort.

Of Hebrew law, the Ten Commandments are best-known. However, Deuteronomic code discusses a vast number of rules and rituals to be followed.

Many of the Hebrew laws, including the cross-dressing rule, are about separation. When Hebrew marauders attacked and killed the agrarian inhabitants of Palestine and took their cities and virgins, they took great pains to make sure that their own culture and hierarchy was not polluted by the displaced inhabitants or their new forcibly converted wives.

The Hebrews were especially horrified by the polytheistic worship of the people they conquered, so their laws were especially strict regarding the LORD. For instance, the first four of the Ten Commandments:

   1. Worship no gods before me
   2. No graven images
   3. Don't take my name in vain
   4. Observe the Sabbath

Several Palestinian pagan sects involved worship where priests would crossdress in sex-changing rituals. Thus, for Hebrew priests-- cross-dressing idolatrous polytheists bad, monotheists good. And never the twain shall meet.

I believe that the current Western obsession with separation/distinction of sexes has its literary roots in ancient Hebrew law.

Mosaic law in context

Much of the Deuteronomic code is not followed these days, because many of the laws are ridiculous by current moral standards. Still, those with a political agenda, whether pro or con on an issue, often pick and choose passages that back up their claims, ignoring the fact that the passages appear amidst a lot of other stuff that seems ridiculous today.

Take a look at the miscellaneous rules which follow Deuteronomy 22:5--

    * A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman's garment; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God.
    * Don't take a mother bird from her nest.
    * Put a rail around your roof so no one falls off.
    * Don't plant crops with vines.
    * Don't hitch oxen and donkeys together.
    * Don't wear cloth combined of wool and linen.
    * Sew tassels on four corners of clothes.
    * If a man marries a girl, but later doesn't want her and claims she wasn't a virgin, her parents are to bring blood stained wedding sheet to the leaders, who are to beat him and make him give 500 silver pieces to the father, and he can't divorce her. If the husband's claims are true, she's to be stoned to death at the entrance to her father's house.
    * Men who have sex with others' fiancees are to be killed along with the fiancee. However, if it happens in the country, you should just kill the man, since no one could have heard the woman cry out.
    * Raping single girls requires payment of 50 silver pieces to her father and marriage with no divorce.
    * No sex with any of father's wives.

Being forced to marry your rapist, polygamy, stoning people to death... not exactly civilized by modern standards. Just as strange today is sewing tassels on your clothes or putting a rail around your roof.

As I mentioned earlier, the Hebrews were deeply invested in distinction and separation. Their dietary laws are about categories, and most unclean animals do not fit into an acceptable category. For instance, Jews can't mix dairy and meat. Rules against pork are because pigs have cloven hooves but don't chew a cud, thus are not neatly categorized. Only water creatures with fins and scales may be eaten-- no shrimp or frogs, etc.

Biblical scholars have commented that the laws above about mixing crops, livestock and fabrics are manifestation of this fierce urge to maintain distinctions. Think of other common phrases from the Bible: separate the sheep from the goats, or the wheat from the chaff...

The Hebrews were heavily invested in maintaining a distinction between their beliefs and the beliefs of those they conquered. This meant in part a very distinct separation of sexes.

However, there are numerous passages about people who blur these distinctions: eunuchs.

Eunuchs

Eunuchs are people assigned males at birth who have later been castrated. Technically, transsexuals fit that narrow definition, although eunuchs generally lived as men after castration. This custom appeared throughout Asia and peaked during the Byzantine Empire. The practice was used for servants in royal households and to a lesser extent, in harems. Many ancient religious rituals involved genital modification, including the Hebrew practice of circumcision.

The first chapter of Daniel shows that he and the Chaldean king's chief eunuch were close. Some have gone as far as to say Daniel himself was a eunuch, but that's not clear. An even more tendentious stretch is that Daniel was gay. Another eunuch, Ebedmelech, saved Jeremiah after he'd been put in a well by his enemies (Jeremiah 38:7).

Eunuchs get a bad rap early on in Scripture, but in later Jewish and Christian writings, they are allowed to join those groups in worship.

Deuteronomy 23.1

Immediately following the above miscellaneous rules in Deuteronomy, there's specific mention of eunuchs.

    * He whose testicles are crushed or whose male member is cut off shall not enter the assembly of the LORD.

Hmm. That doesn't sound good (the rule or the injury).

Also out of the club are pagan temple prostitutes and Israel's political enemies, among others. This chapter also tells how to deal with wet dreams and how to bury your excrement while camping. Again, put it back into context...

Remember, circumcision = genital modification

The rule probably applied to those who modified their genitals as part of pagan ritual. Like 22.5, it is about transgender practices by non-Hebrews. Of course, the Hebrew version of genital modification was OK, and some say this is because circumcision didn't usually interfere with reproduction. Anything that negates reproduction interferes with the system by which wealth is passed on-- a big no-no.

And let's not forget castrati

Further, remember that eunuchs known as castrati were highly respected singers in European cathedrals. Their full-throated soprano voices were considered an appropriate and inspirational form of praise to God.

However...

Isaiah 56:4-5

In contradiction to the rules against eunuchs in Deuteronomy stands this passage from Isaiah:

    * "For thus says the Lord: to the eunuchs who keep my sabbaths, who choose the things that please me and hold fast to my covenant, I will give, in my house and within my walls, a monument better than sons and daughters, I will give them an everlasting name that shall not be cut off."

"Shall not be cut off??" Who says the Bible doesn't have much humor! That's a pretty bad pun! This passage is especially useful for transsexuals, since it appears in the Old Testament along with the Deuteronomy passage.

Acts 8:26-39

This is the story of the evangelist Philip (not the apostle), who meets a devout Ethiopian eunuch. Philip offers to interpret a passage the eunuch was reading at the time. The passage was Isaiah 53:7-8, often interpreted as a prophecy of Christ's coming. Philip takes this chance to tell the eunuch about Jesus Christ, and the eunuch asks to be baptized. This eunuch is traditionally held to be the person who brought Christianity to northern Africa.

The point of this is that even eunuchs can be baptized as Christians or join in God's worship, in contradiction with Deuteronomy 23:1 and in keeping with Isaiah 56:4-5. In fact, eunuchs have been doing the work of the church since the time of Christ.

Matthew 19:12

This passage has Jesus speaking directly about eunuchs:

    * For there are some eunuchs, who were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, who were made eunuchs by men: and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Many interpretations of this passage have arisen. Some believe it is a discussion of voluntary celibacy, but the fact that Christ mentions people born that way indicates to me a birth condition. Some have also interpreted this to mean gays, which doesn't seem out of the question. However, I think the most literal interpretation would include intersexed (born that way) and transsexual persons (made that way). Regardless of interpretation, the main point is that anyone able to receive the Kingdom of Heaven may do so.

Mark 9:43-47

This passage has Jesus speaking directly about altering one's body:

    * If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell.

Many interpretations of this passage have arisen as well. While it is rarely taken as a literal exhortation, it does seem to say that your bodily form does not matter, and that altering it will not exclude you from entering heaven.

Your body is a temple

I Corinthians 5:19

The "your body is God's temple" argument is used for everything from suicide to poor eating habits.

    * If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you yourselves are his temple.

For transsexuals, this argument often manifests itself as, "If God had wanted you to be a woman, he would have made you that way." This argument is easily countered by asking if this applies to any sort of medical intervention, from wearing corrective lenses, to taking aspirin, to other surgeries.

God and discrimination

1 Samuel 16:7

In this passage, the lowly shepherd David is anointed king of Israel. Samuel assumes the LORD will choose one of David's many handsome brothers, but the LORD says to Samuel:

    * ...I do not judge as man judges. Man looks at the outward appearance, but I look at the heart.

Acts 10:34

This appears in the story of the first Gentile converted to Christianity.

    * Peter began to speak: "I now realize that it is true that God treats everyone on the same basis. Whoever fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him...

The original context was race, but a broader interpretation seems valid.

Galatians 3:28

Another catch-all comeback! If someone starts spouting Scripture to justify hating transsexuals, lay this one on them:

    * ...there is neither male nor female, for we are all one in Christ Jesus.

John 3:16

Of course, nothing beats a passage that's really familiar...

    * For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosover believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Sounds like that covers pretty much any believer, huh?

[Sarah Louise]

I'm a Christian also, my faith is in the Lord, not the local church.

When anyone asks you, just tell them you have prayed to Christ about this and you are at peace in your relationship with the Lord.

They might be able to stop you from attending their local church, but they can not separate you from your "personal" relationship with Christ.

[King Malachite]

When anyone asks you, just tell them you have prayed to Christ about this and you are at peace in your relationship with the Lord.

I agree with this.  The best thing you can do is have God's confirmation.  Once you do, then it doesn't matter what anyone thinks or says.

[ZoeM]

I think it's important to distinguish between hate and disagreement. 90% of Christians, probably, don't hate you. But they will not believe that what you do is right. And they may challenge you on it. But to accuse them of, or think of them as, hateful, is helpful neither to you nor to them.

That said, remember the Bible lays out one condition and one condition only as worthy of hell: if you do not trust in Christ as your savior. No matter how many sins we commit (and we all commit thousands) salvation is constant and eternal.

No one is an abomination to God. Keep that in mind. Nonetheless, certain acts are described as such - and God's opinion of said acts is unlikely to change just because we of the modern era say it should. This is why I am so torn on the issue of sexuality myself, and the reason I will not be with anyone until and unless I know what God views as right. Not because I want to please man - but because I want to please God.

[Jess42]

Well, I'm not really Christian as much as bits and peices of everything rolld into one. But all I can say is you can always use the glass houses parrable. I have seen some pretty "shady" Christians like Jimmy Swaggart and Jim Baker. You can also use the Freewill argument in that God gives us Freewill on all aspects of ourselves and if God gave us Freewill, why can't a church let us be Free to be who we are. If those arguments or talking points don't work use the "God don't make mistakes" argument and you were indeed created by and in God's image and ask them if they think God is an abomination too. The last one may cause some aggression though depending on the person but may allow them to think about it too.

I think a lot of people don't realize that Christ came to us to change the old way of thinking and perceptions. How someone can believe in or worship Christ and still think that the Old Testement is relative with all the old perceptions is beyond me.

I wish you luck dlee. Don't turn your back on Christ and your Faith even though a lot of Christians do to us or anyone they feel isn't living life accrding to there own principles. You don't need a church to be a good person and that is the key, to model your life and live according to Christ's teachings. Christ was condemned by the church too. Also the people were given a choice to allow a criminal or Christ to walk free and the other to be crucified and we all know who was nailed on the cross. Just stand strong and firm in your own beliefs and morals, don't be afraid to doubt it sometimes and just be prepared to be persecuted. Christ faced these same problems.

[spacial]

This stuff isn't Christianity.

[dlee]

That's what I always tell myself ladies that i'm perfect the way I am there's nothing wrong with me, I just second guess myself when others push their opinions on me. Also this may be surprising I talked to my pastor and I have his total support he said there's nothing in the bible about it and he said god will always love and and it's between me and him and no one else. He also said that people who don't agree with it that are Christians just don't agree with it period it has nothing to do with Christianity but they put it against us because they simply don't agree with us, so it made a lot of sense.

[King Malachite]

I'm glad you have a supportive pastor.  In my personal experience, I find that the people who don't agree with ->-bleeped-<- typically don't because they equate it to homosexuality.  That's one of the reasons my pastor has used, along with the "God doesn't make mistakes" line.  It really hurt me when she said that (even more so since she's my sister), but you just have to be firm in this.  Don't let other people's opinions make you second guess yourself because if they see that, they are going to think you have no clue what you want.

As long as you know who you are then you don't need anyone else's negative opinion.  Stand strong sister. -hugs-

[Catalina]

O GOD whose ways are hidden and Thy works most wonderful,
who makest nothing in vain and lovest all that Thou hast made:
Comfort Thou Thy servants, whose hearts are sore smitten and oppressed;
and grant that they may so love and serve Thee in this life,
that they may obtain the fullness of Thy promises in the world to come;
through our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.

-- traditional Christian prayer for the oppressed and victims of danger

I am also a Christian, and I make sure that I am in a congregation that either accepts me for who I am, or does not know about my history. I mean, really, the only reason to come to church is to worship God (and for the 'Apostolic' Churches, like Anglicans, Catholics, Orthodox, etc., to receive the Holy Eucharist and the Sacraments, and worship in the Divine Liturgy).

There is absolutely nothing in the Bible or in the Church Fathers and Mothers about transsexualism being anything horribly abhorrent against God. For me, transsexualism is my medical experience, not who I am. I am just a daughter of God, and I'll be damned if anyone can take that away from me!

Good luck hun, and have a blessed Sunday! I'll be at church praying for the state of the world concerning who we are!

[Jess42]

That's what I always tell myself ladies that i'm perfect the way I am there's nothing wrong with me, I just second guess myself when others push their opinions on me. Also this may be surprising I talked to my pastor and I have his total support he said there's nothing in the bible about it and he said god will always love and and it's between me and him and no one else. He also said that people who don't agree with it that are Christians just don't agree with it period it has nothing to do with Christianity but they put it against us because they simply don't agree with us, so it made a lot of sense.

Sounds like your Pastor is very wise dlee. I'm glad you are accepted and can get support from that source.

[Vicky]

A very quick comment on an overused word by many Bible quoters.  The word abomination in the ancient Hebrew and Sumarian only meant "ritually unclean" and applied only to the priestly class who performed the actual religious sacrifices.  It did not apply to anyone else, and today means the clergyman would not get a paycheck for that Saturday or Sunday, since it would put them on unpaid leave.