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More MtF than FtM. Your thoughts

Started by Mr.X, June 21, 2013, 03:14:22 AM

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0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

aleon515

I agree with the idea that it is more socially acceptable to be a masculine woman. I lived for years in a sort of androgynous place. I don't think anybody looked at me strangely-- except for a couple therapists. It is socially acceptable to be in a more masculine state on the spectrum somewhere. Males can't be at all feminine, you only see this in young guys (25 or younger).

Also males tend to be stealth more often, because they can be. OTOH, I think there are gains in FTM visibility lately. Our FTM group may even be a bit larger than the MTF group, just a group not how many FTMs vs MTFs.

--Jay
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Devlyn

Quote from: Jess42 on June 21, 2013, 02:31:56 PM
Yeah but that's not far from the 1:1095 that Devlyn posted. Of course I feel sorry for the person that is 0.095. I do believe they have bigger problems than being transgedered.

No, you got the math wrong, there are 109.5 people who identify as female to 1 who identifies as male on this site. The guys are drastically outnumbered, or swimmin' in women, depending on how you look at it! Hugs, Devlyn
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spacerace

In the near future, I think we are about to see an explosion (relative to the past at least)  in the number of young guys who have transitioned given the current visibility of the process, so the FTM side may start to catch up at least a bit.

That study that was posted about awhile back showed that MTFs actually transition much later in life than FTMs,.

With FTMs transitioning younger as they realize they have options that previous generations may not have known about, the numbers may temporarily flare up in one age group, IE - 18-30 year old  FTMs may even all ready out number 18-30 year old MTFs.

(for convenience, I am using the terms FTM and MTF despite a dislike for them)
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Lara1969

As far as I know in Germany the ratio is near 1:1

Lar
Happy girl from queer capital Berlin
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Jess42

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on June 21, 2013, 03:17:32 PM
No, you got the math wrong, there are 109.5 people who identify as female to 1 who identifies as male on this site. The guys are drastically outnumbered, or swimmin' in women, depending on how you look at it! Hugs, Devlyn

Oh crap. It's official now, either I'm old and need glasses or just plain stupid. Okay that is one heck of a difference then.
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Michelle S.

I think this has been mentioned a few times but what the hell :)

I definitely think it has to do with society. It seems to me that it is dramatically more acceptable to be a masculine woman than it is to be a feminine man. A personal experience, I remember in high school we had a very masculine girl who played on our football team. She was just "one of the guys" and was extremely popular. The male cheerleaders, well they were the butt of many jokes. I think this loosely describes our society.


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AdamMLP

I think there are a few reasons why there are more transitioning trans women than trans men out there, and on this site.

1.
It's easier for AFAB people to live as gender non-conforming than it is for those AMAB.  Society doesn't give a toss about me, who's supposedly female, wearing and presenting male the entire time.  The last time I wore female clothes out of choice was two or so years ago, and no one's mentioned a thing.  I'm not the only AFAB person who wears male clothing, and presents male.  If someone AMAB was to do the same thing in reverse there would be daggers thrown at them when they walked down the street at least, and one of the biggest insults for a man is to be called a "sissy" or similar terms indicating that they aren't masculine enough.  Being able to dress and act in a masculine way might be enough for some trans men, and they can live their life as a tomboy without ever having to consider gender/gender roles enough to explore their gender identity.

2.
Trans women are more visible in the media than trans men.  The majority of people know that trans women exist, a large percentage of people don't seem to realise that they have male counterparts.  Quite frequently I hear the same story from trans men, particularly those who realised they were trans in their teens rather than as a young child, they knew something was right, but until they discovered that trans men existed they didn't know they were trans.  If someone didn't know it was possible to be trans then the majority of the time I could imagine that they would just think they're crazy and not mention it to anyone for fear of ridicule.

3.
(N.B.: This part isn't intended to offend anyone, I don't believe that one side has it "better" than the other at all.  It's a huge generalisation.)  Trans men seem to pass as male easier and quicker than trans women as female, in general.  This throws up more problems for trans women in terms of the social aspects of transitioning, so they might be more inclined to stick around for longer, because the issues they face may be on going.  If a trans man is passing and stealth then he doesn't need to worry about the social aspect to the same degree, and the questions that would be raised would be more about surgery/packers/binders, and the majority of the time they can be googled.  The social aspects of life are going to be harder to find definitive answers on, or the exact same question asked and debated about before.

Of course there could then be genetic things, and AMAB people are more prone to it occurring, but I've never been a biologist.
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peky

Quote from: Jess42 on June 21, 2013, 02:31:56 PM
Yeah but that's not far from the 1:1095 that Devlyn posted. Of course I feel sorry for the person that is 0.095. I do believe they have bigger problems than being transgedered.

Devlyn posted the ratio found in this site....the ratio in most western countries, including the USA, is 3:1 MTF:FTM
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peky

Quote from: Michelle S. on June 21, 2013, 04:35:43 PM
I think this has been mentioned a few times but what the hell :)

I definitely think it has to do with society. It seems to me that it is dramatically more acceptable to be a masculine woman than it is to be a feminine man. A personal experience, I remember in high school we had a very masculine girl who played on our football team. She was just "one of the guys" and was extremely popular. The male cheerleaders, well they were the butt of many jokes. I think this loosely describes our society.

^^^ +1  sadly but true
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peky

http://tgmentalhealth.com/2010/03/31/the-prevalence-of-->-bleeped-<-/

This ^^^ link articulates the issue better than I ever could, and supports the 3:1 ratio
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Jess42

Quote from: peky on June 21, 2013, 06:40:00 PM
Devlyn posted the ratio found in this site....the ratio in most western countries, including the USA, is 3:1 MTF:FTM

Yeah I read it wrong. But still 3:1 is quite a big difference compared to 1:1 in Poland.
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Devlyn

Quote from: peky on June 21, 2013, 06:51:31 PM
http://tgmentalhealth.com/2010/03/31/the-prevalence-of-->-bleeped-<-/

This ^^^ link articulates the issue better than I ever could, and supports the 3:1 ratio

Yeah, because you know we were going to hold your feet to the fire for a source! How's your own medicine taste?  >:-)

Hugs, Devlyn
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peky

Here is another link, where Lynn Conway takes stab to the topic...very interesting indeed

http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TSprevalence.html
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peky


http://www.tgender.net/taw/thb/THBPrevalence-OE2008.pdf
This link ^^^ by Dr. Horton is pretty revealing for the situation in the USA
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aleon515

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on June 21, 2013, 03:17:32 PM
No, you got the math wrong, there are 109.5 people who identify as female to 1 who identifies as male on this site. The guys are drastically outnumbered, or swimmin' in women, depending on how you look at it! Hugs, Devlyn

I like to think of it as opportunity. ;)

--Jay
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Naomi

I not sure what its like at my college as a whole as apparently there as numerous stealth trans* people but in the trans* student group there are 2 FTMs, 1 FAAB genderqueer person, and 6 MTFs which perhaps coincidentally meets that 3:1 number. Of course possible factors in that number might also come from the fact that there is 2. something : 1 ratio in the school population at large.
あたしは性同一性障害を患っているよ。

aka, when I admitted to myself who I was, not when my dysphoria started :P
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insideontheoutside

Quote from: veltiro on June 21, 2013, 04:35:16 AM
My personality is that being a woman is great. You get to look nice, act civilised be protected and taken care of, be traeted like a possession. It is just great. When I finally transition I will be so much happier. Who wants to be male anyway?

Talk about a 180 degree perspective difference. In my opinion if you honestly want to be "treated like a possession" that's something beyond just feeling/wanting to be female. I mean, females everywhere rally against being anyone's possession. I'm sure you'll find some guy out there willing to do that for you though.

I had topic like this awhile back because it was something I noticed as well. My theory was a lot like other people's in that masculine women are a lot more acceptable in most western societies and therefore can fly "under the radar" so to speak for some time.





"Let's conspire to ignite all the souls that would die just to feel alive."
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Jamie D

Quote from: Liminal Stranger on June 21, 2013, 07:37:37 AM
Well, you are posting in an FtM thread  :laugh:


This is not inherently an FtM-only topic, so I have moved it up a level for a wider discussion.
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xchristine

I believe we are a design by motjer nature for population
Control....were designed in for a balance. .
What reason do we exist for?? We don't produce children...

What we can do is lure men from woman..and quite effectively ...
For every time a man is with us...that is potentially one less
Baby ..

And why the super increase of trans children?? We are that over
Populated.  Our incident level went up 200 fold in children lately .

M'y crazy ideas after studyig us girls boys ..homos...trans....
And thé massive population....

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Lara1969

Quote from: JulieR on June 21, 2013, 08:43:05 PM
My own crackpot observation is that there doesn't seem to be as many older ftms entering the process at any one time.  I might be wrong, in fact that's usually the case, but what factors would prevent an older genetic female from transitioning?  Having a family perhaps?

There was a recent study in Germany that FTM start their transition approx. 10 years earlier than MTF. I am not sure if the reasons were studied. The same study showed a nearly 1:1 ratio.

Lara
Happy girl from queer capital Berlin
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