Huge Dilemma - What do you guys think about this... (Stealth & Dating)

[lost.cowboy]

Hi guys,

I would appreciate any thoughts on this situation and please be honest/harsh - I know I have really messed this up and I just need to know what I should do next...

I'm stealth, 100%. However, when I first joined my workplace 18 months ago it was really bad timing - I ended up being introduced into the organisation as [Birthname] and then changing a month later. The thing is, I moved departments since then and people have moved around so much that really nobody remembers.

I have always liked and had a very flirty relationship with a girl in a different department to mine. She had a boyfriend, but they split up just before Christmas and we started getting closer and closer. We had a lot of false starts, because she had this big thing in her head about not wanting to go out with anyone from work. I took her on  few dates and made a huge effort to make her see how much she meant to me, and in the end she "let herself go" so to speak, and we officially got together. We kept it a secret at work for a bit, but now she has told everyone in work and her family... which is a really big deal to her.

Now here's the thing - just as we were on the brink of breaking that barrier and getting together, she mentioned the fact that she knew I had joined the organisation as [Birthname] and wanted to understand. I was suitably vague and said that all that didn't matter, it was the present and future that mattered. But -  I said I had nothing wrong with me, equipment wise, which is now the huge dilemma.

Through the use of a prosthetic, everything she has felt so far (over clothes etc) would have seemed fine, but we want to get more physical and I'm holding back and she has become very suspicious about me holding back.

I feel like, I wouldn't have wanted to spill everything up front before it became relevant - because it may not have, we may have dated and not worked out... and now, all of a sudden we love each other and I'm so serious about her but feel like if I try to explain all this she will feel lied to, hurt, and leave.

Thoughts please? Has anyone been in a similar situation? I know I could have handled this better, I've just been terrified the whole time.

[Mr.X]

I have not been in your situation, so you can take this with a grain of salt due to a lack of experience.

But I think if I were in your shoes, I would be brutually honest. You have already lied once (for good reasons, but it was still a lie) which is never a good start of a relationship. In order to show that you like to make up for it, and create understanding as to why you lied, I would tell her exactly why you lied. Be honest and answer her questions truthfully to show that you are serious about her, care about her, and will be honest with her from now on.

Also, I assume you have not had bottom surgery, so your equipment is still more in the female spectrum? I don't know how straight she is, but if that is an issue, I would guess her love for you goes not as deep as one might think. They do say that love conquers all, do they not? Or maybe this is too black and white?

[Devlyn]

Big hug! I hope you can work it out. We see this a lot, someone who is stealth often feels that it's their life, their body, their business, and no one else's. They expect to be able to control all aspects of their circumstances.  But the other person wants control of their lives and decisions, too, and frankly, being in a relationship with someone who is stealth takes that away in a sense.

This is one way of looking at it, there will be other opinions, of course. I'm not trying to be harsh, despite your invitation, just trying to present another perspective.  Hugs, Devlyn

[Nero]

Hmm, I understand not wanting to disclose immediately. Some people who would be turned off by you as a 'concept' before getting to know you, may not have a problem once they like you as a person. Also, it's especially tricky disclosing to dates when you're stealth. And doubly so at work. You don't want to be outed if it goes sour.

But I think the issue here is that she did give you an opening to disclose and you didn't take it. She will feel lied to because you did just that pretty much when you said/led her to believe you had standard equipment. The upside here though is that she did have some inkling early on due to your birth name and seemed like she wasn't too bothered. Or was she? What was the tone when she asked this - was it more like 'um you're not a girl, are you? because otherwise...' or just one of wanting to know more about you?

[lost.cowboy]

Thank you very much for your responses already (am sitting in a Starbucks fretting away about this).

Mr X - that is exactly what I think, about maybe this being a black and white situation and if I don't meet the criteria I'm gone. (No bottom surgery here yet).

Thank you, Devlyn. That is the dilemma really isn't it - who has the stronger right - my right to privacy or her right to know exactly what's going on right from the start? I just don't know.

Fitter Admin, I think that is what worries me most - why did I not take the bloody chance !?! I guess it was early days and like I said I never knew we would go this far. When we first kissed, she had no idea about anything - it was after that when she asked about the birthname situation. Which maybe could be an upside, or maybe it's gone too far.

Do you think there are guys out there who have had unsuspecting relationships with some form of prosthetic - or is that just not possible? (not saying it's right, just wondering if it's something that happens.

Thanks again for the chance to discuss, I have nobody to talk to so really appreciate it.

[Devlyn]

Thank you very much for your responses already (am sitting in a Starbucks fretting away about this).

Mr X - that is exactly what I think, about maybe this being a black and white situation and if I don't meet the criteria I'm gone. (No bottom surgery here yet).

Thank you, Devlyn. That is the dilemma really isn't it - who has the stronger right - my right to privacy or her right to know exactly what's going on right from the start? I just don't know.

Fitter Admin, I think that is what worries me most - why did I not take the bloody chance !?! I guess it was early days and like I said I never knew we would go this far. When we first kissed, she had no idea about anything - it was after that when she asked about the birthname situation. Which maybe could be an upside, or maybe it's gone too far.

Do you think there are guys out there who have had unsuspecting relationships with some form of prosthetic - or is that just not possible? (not saying it's right, just wondering if it's something that happens.

Thanks again for the chance to discuss, I have nobody to talk to so really appreciate it.

There's the issue right there. When you say right to privacy, it infers that you reserve the right to keep your matters strictly to yourself, and you're the only one who gets the whole picture. But then you want others in the picture, complicating matters greatly.

And I hope "unsuspecting relationship" was just careless wording. Intentionally  misleading someone is wrong.

[Nero]

Do you think there are guys out there who have had unsuspecting relationships with some form of prosthetic - or is that just not possible? (not saying it's right, just wondering if it's something that happens.

Do you mean just doing it in the dark without her knowing the difference? That would add a dimension to the deception that would be a lot less forgivable. If she couldn't tell, it would also probably make her feel stupid which won't win points. And what if she did somehow detect during the act?
The longer you go on and the more deceptive you get, the worse her reaction's going to be. At this point, she either likes you enough for the trans issue to not be a problem or she doesn't. Going any further will surely erode any trust and she'll be less likely to forgive you even if she wouldn't have had a problem with the trans thing.

[lost.cowboy]

You are both right - that was a stupid thing for me to say.

[Nero]

You are both right - that was a stupid thing for me to say.

Maybe. But I don't think it's unnatural to wonder - you like this girl, you want to please her, sooner or later she's going to want sex...
It's wrong, but the important things are what you actually go through with not whether you ever had a weak moment and considered doing something else.

Being honest now with tips from Mr. X is the way to go:

But I think if I were in your shoes, I would be brutually honest. You have already lied once (for good reasons, but it was still a lie) which is never a good start of a relationship. In order to show that you like to make up for it, and create understanding as to why you lied, I would tell her exactly why you lied. Be honest and answer her questions truthfully to show that you are serious about her, care about her, and will be honest with her from now on.

Be a man about it. That will go a long way. Explain everything - that you're stealth and this isn't something you tell normally, it's a risk for you to tell prematurely on dates (especially with people from work), and you were scared because you really liked her and didn't know what to do.

Think about being the kind of guy she needs. And that guy admits his mistakes and is honest and trustworthy. Women seem to fall in love with character about as much as looks - show you're a good guy who can admit his mistake and try to make it up. If she rejects you, then at least it's better now than down the road when you both have even stronger feelings.

[Devlyn]

Not stupid, you're in an awkward situation trying to find a solution and asking for help. Your need to go stealth may be your number one priority. If it trumps relationships that wouldn't work out, so be it. You can find the right person, regardless. If you're not going to disclose the lack of equipment appropriate to your target gender to your partner, a non-sexual (penetrative, anyway) relationship is in order.

This is where privacy extends outside you, and starts affecting others. It's a difficult choice. If you're getting involved in relationships that may become life partners, it's paramount that your expectations are both considered. You're at a crossroads, you're 100% stealth, and that is about to be compromised.

[stavraki]

You're living the two sides of the privacy issues created by a world that struggles to dissociate genital configurations when it thinks about 'gender': declare or stealth.

If this person you've met has the kind of empathy faculty that sets them apart from the mainstream world, they'll already have smelt you out, and you'll have 'leaked' in ways that you've not realised (70% of communication is non verbal).  And if they have that kind of empathy, they'll know that it's society's limits that make your stealth acceptable and forgivable and they'll be sad that you needed to hide at all, or in any way, and appreciate that your beauty, sexiness to them, and bodily form are a package.

I do not know what the quality of this person you describe is, how well they've discerned what you're hiding, and what they felt from the prosthesis (hopefully--it felt somewhat different to them--).

I also read 'haven't had bottom surgery yet'.

May I now, change track: I'll share my wisdom by how I tackle this same situation, though I am a gay male, who lost his genitals in a tragedy, and, like you have not had bottom surgery 'yet'.

I spell my situation out from the beginning, because I don't want people in my life who can't extend their empathy faculty to find compassion for what I don't have.  I also use humour as I take ownership of the loss and make that a winner.  Believe me, I'm beating them off with sticks ATM (for future dating--I disclose up front and refuse coitus atm, and take ownership by saying "no!  Not yet, you'll have to wait" - there's something that makes a lotta lovers very excited knowing they getta guy who can perform, and perform..

"I will be able to perform as long as you need, and I will have a bionic phallus.  You'll never have to worry that I'll need to go too long or too short.  You'll get a lover who will be matched to your cycle.  You'll get someone who knows how to make lovemaking  more about you than anyone you've known before."

You know, as a guy who had a phallus and lost it - ya know what - I don't miss the darned thing that much.  Never did what it was told.  Darned thing was a nuisance.  I'm looking forwards to my bionic replacement--I really am.  I will be able to concentrate on the building of a real sexual connection with a partner, without having to worry about erectile *bleeping* function.  So much about having a phallus for a man is about shame and performance anxiety.  I swear to god man, the number of times I wanted to perform when I've been with someone really sexy and just was not able to--not enough sleep/anxiety/stressed/yada yada yada!

Suggestion: when you disclose - be in two places at once.  Here and now - and in the future - when you're going to be a star, perpetual performing man.

Kind Regards - if you're rejected for the stealth - remember!  As my cousin said to me in Athens about dating "Never run to catch a bus--there's always another one on the way!"

[stavraki]

In a sentence

Those Who Care Don't Matter and Those Who Matter Don't Care

Let us know how you get on, matey....best of luck

stav

[Simon]

I have a sorta similar situation in how I met my gf. Next February will be a decade together for us so sometimes it does work out.

I was working in a diner and had my name changed previously to getting a job there. My gf's mom worked there and she would pop in from time to time to see her. That is how we met. She then left her previous job and started working at the diner too and I was her trainer. I had liked her from the first time we met but at the time she had a cis male bf. They were fighting constantly and she used me as her shoulder to cry on and we started hanging out after work. About two weeks or so after we started hanging out she kissed me in the car one night. This was all happening a little quick for me because I had just moved back to NC from CO after ending a two year relationship and was spending a few months at my mom's house until I could find some roommates and get back on my own. Well, my mom had seen her kiss me. I go inside and my mom asks me if I had told her or not. I say no and then my mom tells me I just need to cut her loose before something bad happens and then my whole workplace ends up finding out. I decided to call her that night and tell her I thought we shouldn't see each other anymore but didn't want any static at work about it. She starts crying (my weakness is crying women) sooooo I decided to disclose. To my amazement she didn't care. I was one of the lucky ones.

If that girl knows your birthname and that name is overly female there is a good chance she has suspicions. I think (like others have pointed out) that you had your opening when she questioned it and you lied. Then even took it a step further saying you were anatomically correct. If I were in your shoes I would either break it off or (if you can handle the possible consequences and melt down) tell her asap. I think I would make sure I explained it in a way that the ball was left in her court. No pressure about it but if things don't work out a expressed feeling that you hope you two can remain best friends because you don't want to lose her in that aspect.

I wish you luck.

[stavraki]

I have a sorta similar situation in how I met my gf. Next February will be a decade together for us so sometimes it does work out.

I was working in a diner and had my name changed previously to getting a job there. My gf's mom worked there and she would pop in from time to time to see her. That is how we met. She then left her previous job and started working at the diner too and I was her trainer. I had liked her from the first time we met but at the time she had a cis male bf. They were fighting constantly and she used me as her shoulder to cry on and we started hanging out after work. About two weeks or so after we started hanging out she kissed me in the car one night. This was all happening a little quick for me because I had just moved back to NC from CO after ending a two year relationship and was spending a few months at my mom's house until I could find some roommates and get back on my own. Well, my mom had seen her kiss me. I go inside and my mom asks me if I had told her or not. I say no and then my mom tells me I just need to cut her loose before something bad happens and then my whole workplace ends up finding out. I decided to call her that night and tell her I thought we shouldn't see each other anymore but didn't want any static at work about it. She starts crying (my weakness is crying women) sooooo I decided to disclose. To my amazement she didn't care. I was one of the lucky ones.

If that girl knows your birthname and that name is overly female there is a good chance she has suspicions. I think (like others have pointed out) that you had your opening when she questioned it and you lied. Then even took it a step further saying you were anatomically correct. If I were in your shoes I would either break it off or (if you can handle the possible consequences and melt down) tell her asap. I think I would make sure I explained it in a way that the ball was left in her court. No pressure about it but if things don't work out a expressed feeling that you hope you two can remain best friends because you don't want to lose her in that aspect.

I wish you luck.

this one made my day.  after I was neutered - I was despairing for a while.  No gonads - I thought 'love life's over stav--get used to life the way you are'.  Was dark, very for a while.

Like you, I had a moment that stayed with me forever--one of my old friends, watching me on the sidelines for a long time, opened up and spoke of things of love and of a preparedness to be with me, in the form I am, and was able to see past normal limits.

That night still evokes tears, if I think on what happened long enough.  I realised that the human heart was more generous than my fears whispered to me.

Your partner is a beautiful human being--how could you not love someone like that.  Though this whole area of 'what kind of genitals do you have' is so vexing, hard, heart breaking, challenging, scary, shaming, there are such stories of beauty, grace, generosity, triumph, vigour and amazing awe that come from them.

I would *never* have known the love being born in me had I not lost my genitals.  Life's better, after the tragedy.

Kind Regards
stav

[spacerace]

Maybe I missed the explanation for this -

but if she knows your birth name there is some questioning going on, right? How would she have known to ask you about this, if not for someone telling her about it?

People gossip. The extent of any perceived femaleness about you before you changed your name may have been noticed - even if was just the name change.

Basically - she probably knew something about the answer before she asked, and now she is just even more confused. Clarify it for her. Her asking you about it was her way of saying, I know something is different, are you ready to share it with me.

edit, I should have read more of the thread, Simon said this better than I:

If that girl knows your birthname and that name is overly female there is a good chance she has suspicions. I think (like others have pointed out) that you had your opening when she questioned it and you lied. Then even took it a step further saying you were anatomically correct. If I were in your shoes I would either break it off or (if you can handle the possible consequences and melt down) tell her asap. I think I would make sure I explained it in a way that the ball was left in her court. No pressure about it but if things don't work out a expressed feeling that you hope you two can remain best friends because you don't want to lose her in that aspect.

[TheLance]

All I can say is that I fully agree with the others on this. You should have taken your chance, but that can't be reversed, so you need to either do what you can to fix it or abandon ship. I seriously hope things work out well for you either way keep us posted!

[Kreuzfidel]

Just let it out - you will feel so much more free when you do.  I did something similar, but my "skirting around" the issue went on for years and it caused a tremendous amount of pain and emotional damage to my partner - had I only been honest from the start, it would have saved both of us that suffering.