Information vs Ignorance

[King Malachite]

Forgive me if this seems to be worded weirdly

So I'm planning on coming out to my family (and re-come out to my oldest sister) about being transgender within the next 1 1/2 to 2 years (about when I should have the money to book for a top surgery date).  My family is very religious.  When I come out to them, I want to be prepared, so I'm thinking about printing off some information about ->-bleeped-<- and how it is a legit medical condition. I also plan on printing out some information concerning ->-bleeped-<- and Christianity using scriptures, as well as smash the common religious arguments used against ->-bleeped-<-/transitioning (God doesn't make mistakes, etc.).  Basically when I'm done, I want to be able to prove my case in a way that proves that this isn't just an overnight decision and that I have done years of research and soul-searching about this.  I want to have the medical, emotional, mental, spiritual, physical aspects covered in this presentation.

The problem is that, a part of me feels like this is a useless endeavor and  a waste of time because my mom can be very stubborn and is vehemently against LBGT rights. Both of my sisters are preachers and I feel it's a strong possibility that even if I present all the information in the world, they still will not try to hear me out and deny everything.  That's what my oldest sister did the first time around when I came out to her.  When I told her it was a legit condition that can be diagnosed by therapists, she pretty much said they don't count since many of them are secular and she proceeded to deny everything I told her. Thankfully she isn't my top priority to come out to.  It's just my mother and other sister, but I feel they may do the same thing.  It's making me wonder if I should even pursue getting the information.

On top of that, I'm afraid that they all might consider me brainwashed or "not legit" about this because I will have a response for a lot of the things they might say or question and since I would have this stuff down on paper and reading some of it, they might think that it's not coming from the heart if that makes sense.  I do plan on speaking from the heart as well and not JUST read from the information.


What do you guys think?  Should I proceed and gather up this information anyways, or is it not worth my time based upon having a religious family that will probably hold on to how they will feel about the situation?

I'm still trying to make a decision about this because if I proceed, then I try to gather a lot the information up within the next three weeks.  I know that's pretty early but I get a certain amount of free printouts from my college and I will probably have some left over after the summer semester is over and I don't plan going back to school after that.  I figured I won't let them go to waste and use them since once I'm out of school, it will be harder for me to gain access to a printer. 

[Devlyn]

The more complex your plan, the more chances there are for someone unfamiliar with the plan to sidetrack you. Can't you just blurt it out? Once it's out, it's behind you, and you can start moving forward with your life. Hugs, Devlyn

[King Malachite]

I wish it would could just be that easy but I'm also considering my living arrangements etc.  I just want the timing to be right.

[Devlyn]

Worst case, they throw you out, you go to the recruiters, your living arrangements are all set for four years. Maybe not the course you want, but the point is, you can make your own options. Parents know it's coming, everyone leaves the nest at some point. Usually followed by the ramen noodles survival plan, but it's part of achieving independence. My friend Tina says when you're out on your own, nothing tastes better than a peanut butter sandwich made with YOUR knife, on YOUR table, in YOUR kitchen. And she's right. Hugs, Devlyn

[Soren]

Well, if they do bring up the 'god doesn't make mistakes' thing, just tell them it isn't a mistake, that god is testing your faith or something like that.

[ZoeM]

Religious folks can be some of the nicest people around, especially towards those they view as in spiritual jeopardy. I don't speak for everyone obviously, but my family has been nothing but kind and considerate even though they don't agree.
Of course, if you want them to accept what you're doing - and/or call you 'son'/treat you as male, you'll have a much harder road ahead of you. I can't make promises or suggestions there, i'm afraid.

Still, best of luck. And remember, we're all here for you.

[Adam (birkin)]

I found that in my own coming out, I overshared with my family. I didn't really mean to, my intention was to show them that I had thought out the transition as thoroughly as I could...what I would do, is inform yourself so you feel comfortable, but kind of ease your family into it and don't say more than you have to. I think, sometimes just accepting a trans child is hard enough, and then all the stuff to worry about with hormones and surgery just sort of makes it worse.

Though, one thing that did help my grandma, was seeing some guys on Youtube who are later into transition - you know, pass completely as cis guys. It made her feel better to know I'd blend in with other men and not be a target.

[DriftingCrow]

Well, I haven't come out, but here's my thoughts anyway (warning: I am kind of a hippie  ):  I think in the 1.5-2 years before you plan on coming out, you should really focus on trying to bring love to your family. I think if you try to bring a culture of trust, understanding, comfort, and love between you and your family members, it'll make it easier for them to accept you when you come out. I think when you learn to accept other's faults and learn not to unduly criticize others, that over time it leaves an impression on those around you, and they stop being so critical as well; and when you support others in a time of need or accept them even if they do something you dislike, they'll do the same in return. Try to remind them that Christianity is a loving religion and that Jesus cared for and served those others deemed untouchables over the next few years, and hopefully things will sink into their hearts.

I don't think reading Bible verses will change their minds on their views on being transsexual, but you can hopefully make them love you even if they disagree on your choices.  (And, this reminded me of this StoryCorp interview I posted over in the news section earlier today: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,144042.0.html)

[King Malachite]

Worst case, they throw you out, you go to the recruiters, your living arrangements are all set for four years. Maybe not the course you want, but the point is, you can make your own options. Parents know it's coming, everyone leaves the nest at some point. Usually followed by the ramen noodles survival plan, but it's part of achieving independence. My friend Tina says when you're out on your own, nothing tastes better than a peanut butter sandwich made with YOUR knife, on YOUR table, in YOUR kitchen. And she's right. Hugs, Devlyn

I wish I could join but I have a couple of physical conditions that would probably prevent me from doing so.  I'm slowly coming to an understanding that millitary is just not in the cards for me.  I have been looking into places to go in case I do get thrown out so I'm always thinking about that too.

Well, if they do bring up the 'god doesn't make mistakes' thing, just tell them it isn't a mistake, that god is testing your faith or something like that.

I have a few responses to that particular statement especially.  I was told that before by my oldest sister and while and my initial response wasn't as thought out as I wanted ot to be so hopefully this time around I can a little more meat on it.

Religious folks can be some of the nicest people around, especially towards those they view as in spiritual jeopardy. I don't speak for everyone obviously, but my family has been nothing but kind and considerate even though they don't agree.
Of course, if you want them to accept what you're doing - and/or call you 'son'/treat you as male, you'll have a much harder road ahead of you. I can't make promises or suggestions there, i'm afraid.

Still, best of luck. And remember, we're all here for you.

For me, I feel that's the biggest concern for them and big part of the process of coming out to them is emphasising that my spirituality is not compromised, but actually enhanced, by realizing who I am and knowing what I need to do.  I appreciate the luck.  I'm going to need all the luck I can get.

I found that in my own coming out, I overshared with my family. I didn't really mean to, my intention was to show them that I had thought out the transition as thoroughly as I could...what I would do, is inform yourself so you feel comfortable, but kind of ease your family into it and don't say more than you have to. I think, sometimes just accepting a trans child is hard enough, and then all the stuff to worry about with hormones and surgery just sort of makes it worse.

You make great points.  Would you say that oversharing with your family did more harm that good and when you say ease my family into it, do you mean over time or at once but don't have so much information in their face?  I know they probably think I'm a lesbian but we don't really talk about it.    I don't know if they will ever accept me as a man though.  I hope they do in time, but I doubted.  I think what makes it worse is having the whole family and church politics playing into it.

[King Malachite]

Well, I haven't come out, but here's my thoughts anyway (warning: I am kind of a hippie  ):  I think in the 1.5-2 years before you plan on coming out, you should really focus on trying to bring love to your family. I think if you try to bring a culture of trust, understanding, comfort, and love between you and your family members, it'll make it easier for them to accept you when you come out. I think when you learn to accept other's faults and learn not to unduly criticize others, that over time it leaves an impression on those around you, and they stop being so critical as well; and when you support others in a time of need or accept them even if they do something you dislike, they'll do the same in return. Try to remind them that Christianity is a loving religion and that Jesus cared for and served those others deemed untouchables over the next few years, and hopefully things will sink into their hearts.

I don't think reading Bible verses will change their minds on their views on being transsexual, but you can hopefully make them love you even if they disagree on your choices.  (And, this reminded me of this StoryCorp interview I posted over in the news section earlier today: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,144042.0.html)

This will seem a bit embarrasing but I'm not too sure how I'd go about doing that as it doesn't really seem like those situations don't arise as much.  My sisters are in their 30's so they usually just go to each other for support.  I try to be there for my family though and love them.  The Bible verses may not change their views on transsexualism at all, but when they don't accept me because of religious reasons, I would like for them to show me exact chapter and verse as to why it would be wrong for me to transition.  After that I would use the scriptures that I've found to help build my case.  Basically I just want them to know where I'm coming from, even if they don't accept it. 

[Simon]

My friend Tina says when you're out on your own, nothing tastes better than a peanut butter sandwich made with YOUR knife, on YOUR table, in YOUR kitchen. And she's right.

^This. Personally I don't see how people live at home past 20 (at the most). I was barely 18 and couldn't wait to get out. It's just nice having total freedom under your own roof. Answering to no one but yourself.

You've gotta go about it your own way Malachite BUT I don't think there is any way you can try to explain it that your family isn't going to zero in on "sex change". I come from a very religious family...Southern Baptist even. I don't want to scare you but things still haven't been smoothed over with most of them even after almost 15 years. Their big thing is I am "going against God". I never told anyone except my mom about what the doctors told me about the possibility of being intersexed because if they can't accept me now then screw them.

Get your plan together and cover your bases. Personally I would already be living on my own. Avoid the awkwardness and the possibility of being asked to leave. That way you can tell them and they can decide when to contact you after things have cooled off. Being there and constantly "in their face" may aggravate the situation if they're not too keen on what is going on.

[King Malachite]

^This. Personally I don't see how people live at home past 20 (at the most). I was barely 18 and couldn't wait to get out. It's just nice having total freedom under your own roof. Answering to no one but yourself.

You've gotta go about it your own way Malachite BUT I don't think there is any way you can try to explain it that your family isn't going to zero in on "sex change". I come from a very religious family...Southern Baptist even. I don't want to scare you but things still haven't been smoothed over with most of them even after almost 15 years. Their big thing is I am "going against God". I never told anyone except my mom about what the doctors told me about the possibility of being intersexed because if they can't accept me now then screw them.

Get your plan together and cover your bases. Personally I would already be living on my own. Avoid the awkwardness and the possibility of being asked to leave. That way you can tell them and they can decide when to contact you after things have cooled off. Being there and constantly "in their face" may aggravate the situation if they're not too keen on what is going on.

I understand that mentality.  I often try to get my plan together in case it all just hits the fan.  It's constantly changing though.  I'm open to the possibility that my family may never accept me and if things just get too intense I don't want to put an extra burden on them but I guess it's just one of those deals where I have to see how it plays out.

[Adam (birkin)]

You make great points.  Would you say that oversharing with your family did more harm that good and when you say ease my family into it, do you mean over time or at once but don't have so much information in their face?  I know they probably think I'm a lesbian but we don't really talk about it.    I don't know if they will ever accept me as a man though.  I hope they do in time, but I doubted.  I think what makes it worse is having the whole family and church politics playing into it.

It is hard to say if it did more harm than good. One thing about some members of my family is...they are cruel and they will use something they see as a weak spot against me. That's something to keep in mind. So, for example, my dad knowing more about hormones led him to say some extremely hurtful things to me as a result. That was in addition to the whole "you'll never be a real man" crap. So for me personally, it made it harder, and that was why.

For the family members who were not so cruel, I do think oversharing came with a price. So, my mom knew a lot about hormones because I told her, and that made her feel really uneasy about that change. She was already thinking "sex change surgery", so the hormones on top of that just made it weirder for her, I think. Whereas I never told my grandmother a thing about hormones (BECAUSE I WAS SICK OF FIGHTING WITH HER ABOUT THINGS  ). In fact, 15 months on T and I haven't even mentioned starting them. It wasn't worth the fight when she'd see the changes anyway...she knows I am a man, with or without hormones, she just has to accept it. I know she knows I've changed, but it did make it easier for her to just leave it unsaid. If I had told her about hormones, she'd be upset, thinking "my little girl is going to have a new face, I won't recognize her", "she's going to have a beard", "people will start calling her 'he' in public when I still use 'she'", and all the other small details that would take away her "granddaughter." Instead, she saw them popping up as they came along, and it was more gradual, so instead of worrying about the future, she just accepts them as they come. I really do think most things were best left unsaid. If they asked, I'd be honest and tell them the information, but otherwise, I just leave it be because I find it easier.

I guess that's what I mean by ease them into it over time...let them ask the questions when they want and answer truthfully when that time comes. Because you can't delay your transition for their sake (and I doubt that, when you are able to, you would, but I am just saying). I messed around for 2.5 years, hoping they'd come around, and it cost me nothing but pain tbh. In the end, when it was time for hormones (I couldn't take it anymore), I simply stood my ground. I think to one person I said something along the lines of "I know this is hard for you to accept, but this is something I have considered very carefully and I have to do this for myself. If you have any questions, I will answer them." And sometimes I made compromises, like "I know you aren't ready to use my new name, but can we try to find something to use that's not my old name?" Like I asked my grandmother to call me "sweetie" as a compromise, and actually, she skipped right over to Caleb when I asked. Keep in mind that was almost 2 years after she found out, lol, because I didn't have the balls to ask beforehand.

My grandma has church politics too. But I haven't gone to church in years. For a long time she asked me to come back, but I said "I'm not going somewhere where I won't be accepted for who I am." I am certain that no one at her church has been told about me, but I don't care because I don't see them. They ask about "K" now and again, and they get the "oh she's working on her master's degree..." Lol. I let her live her church life and I live mine.

[dreaming.forever]

Yeah, I'd say don't go into a whole lot of detail when telling them you're trans. Even for people who are ultimately accepting, it's quite a shock for them to hear about it, so it's best to let them ask the questions they have and not give a whole "trans 101" speech. Most people don't like change, and some will do whatever they can to avoid it (even if that means living in denial forever). So if you can gradually tell your family about your transition, instead of the moment you come out tell them your entire plan for your whole transition (such as what surgery you want, what your hopes/expectations for T are, etc), it'll be more likely they won't feel as overwhelmed by it.

As for the religion aspect, I personally don't think you can win an argument based on scripture, simply because it's so subjective. Different people within the same religion, even within the same church/congregation/thingy, have different interpretations of what it all means, with some people even coming up with completely opposing conclusions on one specific verse/chapter/section. I'd be more inclined to go the route of "god loves everyone and we're supposed to love each other" instead of "this is why it's not morally wrong to be trans" since virtually everyone agrees that the whole point of religion is to be loving towards others. Then, even if they do decide it's "wrong," they might accept you anyway because nobody is "perfect" or whatever.

Anyway, I rambled on for a bit longer than intended. Good luck. Hope everything goes well

[FTMDiaries]

+1 to the recommendations to keep it simple.

The more information you give them upfront, the more angles you will give them to pick holes in your argument. You'll just be giving them ammo to use against you and even though you know you've done your homework, it'll be painful to have to go through all of that with them.

If I were you I'd leave it at the very basic stuff and offer to answer any (genuine, polite) questions they might have. Then if they do ask you any questions, that's when you go away and 'research' the subject (which you already have researched, natch) and present them with the relevant printouts.

[LordKAT]

Personally, leave a letter, take a week off somewhere else, then return to discuss if they want to.  You get your point across without any anger or defensive emotion screwing things up, they get time to ponder and calm down, you get a much needed prep and relax time. Coming back after to return to normal life or not as needed.

[King Malachite]

All of you guys have great points.  I was talking to a cisgendered friend about this earlier and here's what she had to say.

"I think it might be too much as well I get that you want them to be well informed and try to understand where your coming from but at the same time also remember that its going to be overwhelming for them and no matter what kind of info or facts you may have it will be a lot for them and any facts or paperwork you give them won't register anyway."

So she's also in agreeance here.  Needless to say that not giving them a lot of information upfront may not be the best way to go.  I still believe it is best for me to give them sciptures and tell them that "here is my interpretation based upon these scriptures".  As far as the information ->-bleeped-<- goes.  I may just study that for myself and show it to them when they ask for it.  Usually, I am the type of person who over-analyzes many things and try to get all of my ducks in a row before proceeding with something.  Sometimes, it causes me to overlook little things.  If I were to have this presentation, they would probably just accuse me of having biased information that obviously would be in my favor and not count it or like others said, would attack weak points on it and just focus on those.

Here's what I will try to do within the next year and a half to two years now:

-Start to be more open about myself by easing things on them gently and if they ask any questions then answer truthfully (hope I get up the courage to)

-Finding alternative places to live/start networking with people so if it all hits the fan, then I may have a few places lined up to stay for a while

- Don't get them too much information when I do come out.  Keep it short.  Focus on explaining to them one goal at a time. 

-Present the relevant information only when asked.

-Don't get upset if they initially reject what I have to say.

[AdamMLP]

If you're going to bring scriptures into it, maybe discuss the relevant parts beforehand and try and get them to see your point of view without letting out that you're trans.  That way they might already be seeing things a little more how you do before everything gets heated, because from what I've seen on the internet (I live in what's apparent the least religious part of the UK, so don't have any real life experience) fighting scripture with scripture just doesn't work.

[Devlyn]

If you're going to bring scriptures into it, maybe discuss the relevant parts beforehand and try and get them to see your point of view without letting out that you're trans.  That way they might already be seeing things a little more how you do before everything gets heated, because from what I've seen on the internet (I live in what's apparent the least religious part of the UK, so don't have any real life experience) fighting scripture with scripture just doesn't work.

Whaddya mean it doesn't work? People have been at it for thousands of years.........er, never mind......