can we have a NT board?

[DriftingCrow]

After being on here for about half a year now, I've noticed (at least in the FTM section where I mainly frequent) that anytime anyone mentions naturally transitioning, there's always trouble since most people believe firmly in the just get on T route.

This atmosphere isn't very welcoming to opening up conversation for people interested in looking at alternatives for various reasons, such as not being able to get on T in their country or having medical conditions or beliefs that prevent it.

While I don't expect it to be a high-traffic section of Susan's, it would be nice to have an area where people interested in alternatives can ask questions or share experiences without worrying about being pounced on by the T is the only way group? 

[Soren]

I agree. While I understand that many people prefer T, I would like to have a place where I could talk about alternatives without being backhandedly insulted.

[Devlyn]

Due to the traffic issue, I'm not sure a dedicated forum is in order.

I am personally disappointed in the way the most recent thread went. We should be able to exchange ideas without insults. All of our members should periodically review the TOS to avoid posting things that violate the rules or run counter to the supportive nature of the site.

[Jamie D]

There are plenty of topics about the use of herbals in the Transitioning (main) and HRT boards.

[insideontheoutside]

I would definitely support this. Even if it isn't a high traffic area, I think it's important to have an alternative place to discuss things where you don't have to get the constant barrage of medical transition talk. I get that that's the route the majority of people (at least the people who post) take, but there's plenty of trans (and even genderqueer) people who aren't going that route and there's no where to discuss it without it being quickly buried on the main board or it going in a direction where people start to get unruly.

You have a non-op board under Transsexual forms ... so how about just starting a natural board under that and see how it goes?

[Oriah]

I think a natural transition board is a fantastic idea too, not only for F2M but also for M2F.  I've been on an all natural transition for quite a while now.  It seems like it's awfully looked down upon and great lengths are taken to sweep it under the rug.

Why is it that in the HRT forum there's a specific ban on talking about pueraria mirifica, an herbal substance that's been the subject of tons of medical studies and proven to have phytochemicals more strongly estrogenic than estradiol, and used as a natural HRT for menopausal women across the globe?  I could understand if there wasn't science behind it, but banning discussion of something that's been so heavily researched by scientific and medical professionals for years and years seems ridiculous. 

There are also natural antiandrogens that work similarly to prescription antiandrogens....but I'm willing to bet threads on them would be discouraged by staff.

Why all the opposition against naturals?

[Devlyn]

Site policy is not a subject for public discussion.


2. Any attempts to stage protests, dispute the site policies, the TOS/rules, or actions of the staff; in the public areas of this site will not be tolerated and will result in your removal. If you have any issues contact Susan by email, or forum private message, and not bring these types of issues into the public spaces on this website. For the proper way to handle problems of this nature see item #20 below.


20. The staff of this web site are here to provide peer support to our members and visitors and to provide a safe environment by enforcing the TOS and rules of this web site and chat server. If you disagree with their actions, or in regards to a specific situation you may contact Susan or any of the other administrators by email or forum private message, with the details of the situation. They will review your complaint and take any corrective action that may be required by the situation. All user complaints and issues are taken seriously and will be investigated thoroughly.

[insideontheoutside]

Site policy is not a subject for public discussion.

2. Any attempts to stage protests, dispute the site policies, the TOS/rules, or actions of the staff; in the public areas of this site will not be tolerated and will result in your removal. If you have any issues contact Susan by email, or forum private message, and not bring these types of issues into the public spaces on this website. For the proper way to handle problems of this nature see item #20 below.

Remember, the whole "natural" debate is fairly recent, and I haven't seen any update to the TOS to include why we can't otherwise discuss natural alternatives. The issue from this week I believe was using the full phrase NT because it is trademarked by someone (and that same someone also has a very specific program outlined). And someone else brought up "self medicating", but if that is the case then you need to add alternatives such as herbs, vitamins, etc. in a new clause otherwise every time it's brought up on boards people are going to break that unwritten rule without knowing about it.

So if the mods can let us know what we can or can't discuss, I think that would be more helpful than just posting the rule about disputes/protests.

Thanks

[Arch]

It's not just that the term is trademarked. Susan has concerns that if members disclose too much information from the book, they will stray into copyright infringement. The site would be vulnerable to a lawsuit in such a case and could be shut down entirely. She has made it quite clear that the site is safer without a special board on this topic.

In addition, some of the mods have noted that problems could arise because these substances are unregulated, understudied, and easily obtainable without a prescription. Some people use them without a doctor's supervision, too, and we don't want to facilitate that, especially since some of the substances appear to have some dramatic side effects in some people. Also, members could easily make recommendations to other people about dosages and such. Finally, we do not allow discussions of similar substances used by MTFs, so this is the same situation.

I, too, wondered why we could not have such a board, but I understand now.

I expect that Devlyn Marie posted the TOS notice because this topic has already caused problems on another thread or two recently, and bringing it up yet again looks like a public protest. If you have issues with Susan's preferences regarding a board on the topic in question, you will have to take them up with her. I'm sorry, but that's the way it is.

[Susan]

Remember, the whole "natural" debate is fairly recent, and I haven't seen any update to the TOS to include why we can't otherwise discuss natural alternatives.

You can discuss over the counter (OTC) herbal supplements in the HRT board provided doing so falls under the terms of service.

You may not disclose excessive copyrighted information on the site that you do not own, and you may not use trademarked program names.

You also may not make any medical diagnoses or recommend a specific product or course of treatment. You may recommend someone should discuss things of that nature with their doctor.

The following two items under rule 8 would apply to discussion of OTC herbal alternatives to prescription HRT drugs.

A. You may not advocate for or against a specific medication or combinations of medication for personal gain. This is strictly prohibited.
C. The discussion of recommended or actual dosages is strongly discouraged to prevent information obtained on this site from being used to self medicate.

There is one further restriction. You may not dicuss Pueraria Mirifica on this site at all due to it being linked with serious health complications.

If we feel that someone is intentionally violating part A of rule 8, all mention of that product will be prohibited on the site. This happened has already happened with Diane-35.

[insideontheoutside]

Thanks for the clarifications