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Androgyne Subtleties

Started by Shantel, July 20, 2013, 10:27:24 AM

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jesseofthenorth

Quote from: Shantel on July 27, 2013, 05:14:07 PM
I don't have a good answer for you other than it's something we all have to develop on our own. I come from a situation which isn't common to this community. I spent two enlistments in the paratroops in my earlier life, it left me with a no-nonsense attitude which I'm told I somehow project just by my presence. My face is intentionally shaded in my avatar photo on purpose because I'm not an attractive feminine type, oftentimes being mistaken for an FtM or a lesbian dyke. There is no "how to" school here, wish it was that easy for those who could use the help! I'm sorry that you have suffered for just trying to be yourself. I live in Washington, one of the most liberal states just north of Seattle, still there are a fair share of Neanderthals here as well.

I guess this the challenge for all of us. I lie in small town western Canada and as free as I am here I still get deal with a lot of narrow minded ignorance. The most I can do is keep my chin up because i have nothing to be ashamed of (despite the fact of being raised in an atmosphere of shame for who I am).  That being said sometimes keeping your chin up will only take you so far. i have, unfortunately, had to learn to fight, in more ways than one. It is a fine line to walk between protecting yourself physically and not closing yourself off from people because of the few who would do you harm.
Still trying to find all the facets of my identity now that I am firmly and forever out of my closet. The question is: who am I really?
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Shantel

#21
Quote from: jesseofthenorth on July 27, 2013, 07:23:56 PM
I guess this the challenge for all of us. I lie in small town western Canada and as free as I am here I still get deal with a lot of narrow minded ignorance. The most I can do is keep my chin up because i have nothing to be ashamed of (despite the fact of being raised in an atmosphere of shame for who I am).  That being said sometimes keeping your chin up will only take you so far. i have, unfortunately, had to learn to fight, in more ways than one. It is a fine line to walk between protecting yourself physically and not closing yourself off from people because of the few who would do you harm.

There will always be a few jerks to contend with. I have been challenged only once and in a loud voice offered him the opportunity to walk away. I carry a 4" razor sharp lock back buck knife with a hollow ground blade that I flicked open one handed rather quickly, he left. No-one should allow anyone to do them physical harm, when they know you aren't a helpless victim type, they leave you alone. Just don't let them get inside your comfort zone.

Note: I'm not an advocate of violence but we need to be prepared to take care of ourselves in the event someone commits a violent act against us. Police are always good at taking reports after the fact, so unless you don't have some kind of plan for self protection, you may as well stay at home where it's safe.
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insideontheoutside

Quote from: Shantel on July 27, 2013, 10:11:23 AM
When we reach the place where we are unconcerned about what others think or say, then we are no longer fair game for taunts and intimidation. When we are out in public places and we move our eyes around furtively and wonder about what others are thinking when they see us and act timid and fearful, some will invariably view it as an outward sign of insecurity, then we become a potential target for derision and negative remarks from social bullies. That dynamic changes dramatically when we make the choice to project a sense of self confidence and pride that shows in how we carry ourselves and in our outward attitude and behavior, then those obnoxious types who prey on the insecurities of those who are different from them lose interest in trying to emotionally intimidate because we have chosen to take their power over us away.

Good advice. I've mentioned this sort of thing myself to plenty of other people. I used to live in L.A. and occasionally would find myself in "bad" parts of town, but never had a problem the 12 years I lived there. So I've got the overall outward confidence thing down. I'm just trying to be able to ditch my internal dislike (not fear) of some things about my body. As far as my outward appearance or how I choose to dress, I'm definitely closer to the "I don't care what external parties think" goal.
"Let's conspire to ignite all the souls that would die just to feel alive."
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Taka

thus far i've managed to survive male clothing and a whole rainbow of different hair dyes, without looking intimidating at all. especially those hair dyes taught me that the best explanation for wearing green or pink hair tend to be "isn't it a nice color?" for clothing, it's more about comfort. no need to be so conscious about the whole gender thing, the less i speak of it, the less people will think of me as weirder than i really am. i wear dresses because i want to, and just the same with anything else.

"because i want to", "i like these clothes", "this hat's so cool".
come to think of it, those are the real reasons, my most honest opinions. much more than "being non-binary" would be a reason for dressing unconventionally.
and now i suddenly lost any sense of how gender is supposed to control anything about a person's preferences and expression... how does binary gender work again?
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Shantel

Quote from: Taka on July 30, 2013, 09:07:36 AM
thus far i've managed to survive male clothing and a whole rainbow of different hair dyes, without looking intimidating at all. especially those hair dyes taught me that the best explanation for wearing green or pink hair tend to be "isn't it a nice color?" for clothing, it's more about comfort. no need to be so conscious about the whole gender thing, the less i speak of it, the less people will think of me as weirder than i really am. i wear dresses because i want to, and just the same with anything else.

"because i want to", "i like these clothes", "this hat's so cool".
come to think of it, those are the real reasons, my most honest opinions. much more than "being non-binary" would be a reason for dressing unconventionally.
and now i suddenly lost any sense of how gender is supposed to control anything about a person's preferences and expression... how does binary gender work again?

Yup, right on Taka, you are just so you hon!  :eusa_clap:
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Lara the Lover and the Fighter

Quote from: Taka on July 30, 2013, 09:07:36 AM
thus far i've managed to survive male clothing and a whole rainbow of different hair dyes, without looking intimidating at all. especially those hair dyes taught me that the best explanation for wearing green or pink hair tend to be "isn't it a nice color?" for clothing, it's more about comfort. no need to be so conscious about the whole gender thing, the less i speak of it, the less people will think of me as weirder than i really am. i wear dresses because i want to, and just the same with anything else.

"because i want to", "i like these clothes", "this hat's so cool".
come to think of it, those are the real reasons, my most honest opinions. much more than "being non-binary" would be a reason for dressing unconventionally.
and now i suddenly lost any sense of how gender is supposed to control anything about a person's preferences and expression... how does binary gender work again?

Same here!  I seriously forgot the "Man rules".  Like no nail polish and such.  Im going to have to make a check list for times when I need to be in "Man Mode". 

Like this guy:

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Shantel

Quote from: dr girlfriend on July 30, 2013, 10:17:47 AM
Same here!  I seriously forgot the "Man rules".  Like no nail polish and such.  Im going to have to make a check list for times when I need to be in "Man Mode". 

Like this guy:


That's a 10-4 good buddy!  ;D We do have our times and seasons both serious and goofy!
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Taka

Quote from: dr girlfriend on July 30, 2013, 10:17:47 AM
Same here!  I seriously forgot the "Man rules".  Like no nail polish and such.  Im going to have to make a check list for times when I need to be in "Man Mode". 
i took me a while to get what you meant...

there are times when i'm expected to be in female mode. wearing female clothing doesn't help unfortunately, i still manage to forget that all the words women are called by men and other women also refer to me when i'm wearing a pretty dress.
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DriftingCrow

Another thing I need to add to my list of things to forget about when in "girl mode" is shaving. I went to work today in a skirt (I am in desperate need to dropping pants off at the dry cleaners) and wore black nylons since I didn't shave my legs. One of my coworkers said "{Birth Name}! Why are you wearing nylons!?!?" So I said it's because I didn't shave my legs, then she picked up her leg (wearing capris) and said "she I didn't either, no one cares about shaving."

[now, she was just prickly, probably didn't shave in a few days. maybe it's different if there's no shaving in like a month or more, which I tend to do]

This is great, now I feel better about letting my eyebrows grow out and having furry legs, since no one really cares about these little subtleties. I would've never noticed that she didn't shave (and today I took a closer look and saw she doesn't pluck her brows) if she hadn't shown me her leg. I think overall, no one really notices these little things unless they're actively looking for them.  It's so easy to overthink things when we're trying to fit into a certain mode.
ਮਨਿ ਜੀਤੈ ਜਗੁ ਜੀਤੁ
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Jamie D

Quote from: blue on July 23, 2013, 11:44:16 AM
Thank your for this post! I love reading about what you wore and how you thought through an androgyne presentation.

Wish there was a safe place to share photos.

Actually, there is a safe place.  I created it just for my friends here.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,145701.new.html#new

I have set my blog so that it can not be seen by any "guests," "visitors," "newbies" (members with fewer that 50 posts).  And my blog does not get crawled by spiders or bots.

The settings are safer than those of the old "Just for Us" section.
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Lara the Lover and the Fighter

Quote from: Taka on July 30, 2013, 04:33:28 PM
i took me a while to get what you meant...

there are times when i'm expected to be in female mode. wearing female clothing doesn't help unfortunately, i still manage to forget that all the words women are called by men and other women also refer to me when i'm wearing a pretty dress.

I type so fast and have so many thought trigger off at once that sometimes only a portion of my thoughts make it to the computer screen.  I'm impressed when anyone can decipher what I am talking about.  But NO MORE!  No more riddle talk for Dr Girlfriend and no more half typed sentences!  From this point on I shall increase the quality of my posts and strive for sentences that at least make sense.  There have got to be folks that assume that I speak another language or something.

Though I shall retain my tinge of goofiness and slapstick, I will work hard to avoid responses such as "HUH?!" or "what the heck was this person trying to say?"

What I was trying to say was that I spend so much time being feminine that when there comes a time to be masculine I forget all of the unspoken "guy rules".  Like dudes dont shave their legs!  and Why the heck are your nails purple sir?!  Its come to the point where I have forgotten all of those rules and don't really care to follow them.  He? She?  I can only be me!

I only hope that I can be as confident with myself as all of you seem to be.
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Taka

Quote from: dr girlfriend on July 31, 2013, 08:31:32 AM
What I was trying to say was that I spend so much time being feminine that when there comes a time to be masculine I forget all of the unspoken "guy rules".  Like dudes dont shave their legs!  and Why the heck are your nails purple sir?!  Its come to the point where I have forgotten all of those rules and don't really care to follow them.  He? She?  I can only be me!
i did understand that, it just took me a couple minutes of deciphering. i have no problems dressing correctly, but then i forget to have the right state of mind.
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Shantel

Quote from: Jamie D on July 31, 2013, 12:53:49 AM
Actually, there is a safe place.  I created it just for my friends here.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,145701.new.html#new

I have set my blog so that it can not be seen by any "guests," "visitors," "newbies" (members with fewer that 50 posts).  And my blog does not get crawled by spiders or bots.

The settings are safer than those of the old "Just for Us" section.

Cool, count me in Jamie!
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Shantel

Quote from: LearnedHand on July 30, 2013, 06:35:11 PM
Another thing I need to add to my list of things to forget about when in "girl mode" is shaving. I went to work today in a skirt (I am in desperate need to dropping pants off at the dry cleaners) and wore black nylons since I didn't shave my legs. One of my coworkers said "{Birth Name}! Why are you wearing nylons!?!?" So I said it's because I didn't shave my legs, then she picked up her leg (wearing capris) and said "she I didn't either, no one cares about shaving."

[now, she was just prickly, probably didn't shave in a few days. maybe it's different if there's no shaving in like a month or more, which I tend to do]


This reminds me of a woman I saw living on a supposedly desert island in the South China sea. Her legs were skinny as broomsticks with really coarse black hairs poking straight out, she reminded me of a spider. Anyway, I used to shave my legs but finally the hair never grew back. Must have something to do with age, anyway I get a small patck under each kneecap that I mow once a month.  ;D
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Edge

Quote from: Taka on July 30, 2013, 09:07:36 AM
"because i want to", "i like these clothes", "this hat's so cool".
come to think of it, those are the real reasons, my most honest opinions. much more than "being non-binary" would be a reason for dressing unconventionally.
and now i suddenly lost any sense of how gender is supposed to control anything about a person's preferences and expression... how does binary gender work again?
Precisely. Those should be the reasons dictating what to wear. (Well, within reason and following local nudity laws.)
Quote from: Jamie, Bana-phrionnsa Gaidhealtachd on July 31, 2013, 12:53:49 AM
I have set my blog so that it can not be seen by any "guests," "visitors," "newbies" (members with fewer that 50 posts).  And my blog does not get crawled by spiders or bots.

The settings are safer than those of the old "Just for Us" section.
We can do that?
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