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">-bleeped-<"

Started by beth_finallyme, May 28, 2005, 01:20:04 PM

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Terri-Gene

yeah, if were going to get offended about commonly used words that probably the greater majority of us do not see as offensive then perhaps we need to make aout a mile long list of commonly used offensive words.  We all use them every day and probably offend all to many people who are just to polite to say anything when we do.  in fact, lets ban books, videos and any kind of media as I'm sure no matter what it is, someone will take offense at it, so just get rid of it all and we can have a happy peaceful world where nobody is offended, of course theres nothing left to offend anyone with, but thats the point, right?

Hell, jsut a dumb Gender Queer Trannies opinion so trash it.
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Leigh

If this forum was not open to the underage public I would personally have no problem with words however they might be used unless they were directed at me and the context used.

However, this is not the case with Susan's.  Please remember that we are, according to a large % of society, the
QuoteImmoral Minority
and do not think that they would not shut us down if they could. 





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Svetlana

well just to compare, somebody seeing "drop down box" on a computer screen isn't going to make them feel sufficiently threatened enough about a certain perceived "type" of person to want to go out and beat somebody up for it.  ">-bleeped-<", in some cases, does.  there's your difference.

of course i don't give a flying monkey's what the word is or to any significant degree even what some dictionary might or mightn't say that it means... language is only invented to have persuasive effect on people... and it's those effects i'm concerned about.  if that fictional "idiot" i was referring to before (alike which there are plenty of real ones out there) saw all these media and heresay interpretations and associative links of "trannies" and didn't connect them to me at all, then of course i wouldn't be worried.  and believe you me, i'm one of the people who most holds the view that with all the horror that goes on in the world today, "naughty words" are the very least thing anybody aught be concerned over.  but in this case it's not "naughty words", it's slander i guess.  and i'm not just categorising it as that; i mean it as a fundamental difference.  you see what i mean?
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beth_finallyme

Very well said Svetlana!     :)


I see what you mean.






beth
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Terri-Gene

Well, what we need then is to all pitch in and hire an advertising agency to "clean up" our imange and give us a catchy new name that people will instinctively like and our problems will be solved.

As to Queer and Trannie,  In general, all up and down the West Coast, admittedly the heaviest population of full time day to day Queers and Trannies in the nation it's pretty acceptable language and we don't think a thing about it or take any offense, it's just what we are and we do not fear or feel humiliated by what we are.  I believe it is common language in NY also, though I don't live there so can't be sure.

One of the hottest Premier Transgender nightclubs in San Francisco is even named "Trannie Shack" and even has an excellent web site to promote itself.

Anyway with not only with possibly the most Homosexuals and Transgenders in the nation, but the most outfront and so the ones who actually are the most exposed and most at risk, the West coast of California, Oregon and Washington I guess, is perfectly happy with the terms and they don't cause us anymore heat then if we didn't call ourselves anything. We don't even see any conflict and were the ones most affected, so what is the problem?

So far all I've seen is that it identifies us as a group and so makes us a target.  To my way of thinking a target is a target and so who cares what you call it, our point is they can't hurt us by calling us Queer or Trannie, it's like calling us Transgender or Homosexual but shorter.

As to getting beat up because someone heard the word Trannie and associated it with someone acting like the opposite sex, well, does that mean if the word hadn't existed they wouldn't do the same on seeing us in their neighborhood?  Or for a good one, just look at the word Transgender, thats a label and people see it all day long.  Does the word Transgender make them feel any better about us as opposed to the word Trannie?

come on now, If you object to the word Trannie, then you have to object to the word Transgender for exactly the same reasons.  There is no argument I can think of against that as both are just labels for a specific type of people.

But then perhaps thats why over hear we don't worry so much about people "beating us up".  We use the words ourself so much they aren't sure if it's a compliment or an insult and more and more we don't hear it so much from anyone but ourselves.

"beat up"?  Over a million women a year suffer from physical abuse and rape and how many transgender people compaired to that get beat up?  No one has beaten me up for a lot of years, and I don't exactly live around snob hill either,  I know that.

Sorry, but I haven't seen anything mentioned here that would cause me to worry about my safety or anything else, but then perhaps thats because I"m not in an armchair playing quarterback.
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Susan

Quote from: Terri-Gene on May 29, 2005, 08:21:06 PM
One of the hottest Premier Transgender nightclubs in San Francisco is even named "Trannie Shack" and even has an excellent web site to promote itself.

I don't take offense at the word however I do not chose to use it. I consider it less than tasteful.  There is a world of difference between >-bleeped-< and trannie. They may sound the same but are two different words.
Susan Larson
Founder
Susan's Place Transgender Resources

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beth_finallyme

Since transsexuals are 16 times more likely to get murdered, i would imagine we are more likely to get assaulted also.

Terri-gene, you seem to be the champion of the use of the word >-bleeped-<, why is it that you have never used the term here until now?



beth
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Svetlana

Quote from: Terri-Gene on May 29, 2005, 08:21:06 PMAs to getting beat up because someone heard the word Trannie and associated it with someone acting like the opposite sex, well, does that mean if the word hadn't existed they wouldn't do the same on seeing us in their neighborhood?

yes, in my experience, it does.

QuoteOr for a good one, just look at the word Transgender, thats a label and people see it all day long.  Does the word Transgender make them feel any better about us as opposed to the word Trannie?

again, yes.  the word ">-bleeped-<" (and i'm not aware of the difference in meaning via spelling that susan pointed out, so i use it as though interchangeable with "trannie") conjures up images of perverted sex workers, because that is what it is specifically portrayed to mean.  terms like "transgender" or "transsexual" or "transitioner" aren't portrayed that way.  that is the difference i am trying to explain and it does genuinely make a lot of difference.

i haven't been beaten up, but i have been assaulted in other ways, and not just verbally either, due to these views.  i specifically asked one person afterwards why he was having such a go at me.  he replied "because you're a f*cking >-bleeped-< and you're not welcome around here."  i then, slightly angrily, corrected him, saying "i'm not some '>-bleeped-<' as you call it.  i'm a transsexual woman."  he said "don't f*cking make excuses you f*cking >-bleeped-< or i'll beat the cr@p out of you, you sick little pervert".  if those (from memory) are not the exact words, then they are mighty close.  more insults followed, the usual, then he got bored and walked off, thankfully.  other times, there was worse trouble than that - that's just a good one with the words used, for the example i'm making.

QuoteIf you object to the word Trannie, then you have to object to the word Transgender for exactly the same reasons.

i hope the above example explains that that isn't true at all.  they are very seperate reasons.

QuoteBut then perhaps thats why over hear we don't worry so much about people "beating us up".

you say that where you live must be the riskiest place.  to me, from what you've said, it very much doesn't seem that way at all.  it seems like one of the very safest places.

QuoteOver a million women a year suffer from physical abuse and rape and how many transgender people compaired to that get beat up?

and you still insist on considering "normal" women seperately from transitioning women.  why?

QuoteSorry, but I haven't seen anything mentioned here that would cause me to worry about my safety or anything else, but then perhaps thats because I"m not in an armchair playing quarterback.

sorry i'm not very familiar with american football, so if you wanted to, you'd have to explain that one to me.
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beth_finallyme

I think it is perfectly fine if some are offended by the word and some are not. That is what i expected and the reason i started this thread was just to find out.

I do find it disturbing that some would think those offended were somehow not as committed or not as sophisticated or in some how defective. It is certainly ok to be offended and it in no way disparages those who are, just as it is ok to be fine with using ">-bleeped-<".


To imply that the majority of transgendered embrace the word is a falacy. I have never seen the word used by anyone in this forum or the old forum to describe themselves or others. Thanks for responding all.


beth
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Svetlana

well personally i don't think it's quite fine to be okay with using the word, as that spreads it around, with all its negative baggage, and keeps it going.  jmo.
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Terri-Gene

 "I do find it disturbing that some would think those offended were somehow not as committed or not as sophisticated or in some how defective"

Please don't for a moment get that idea beth, as that has nothing to do with it at all and should never enter into it as it would be an internal descrimination.

It is quite natural that some would embrace it and others not, even here, it is just that so many of us don't see it as threatning in any way, but that is our opinion, not necessarily the actual fact.  Actually for myself, because of some local associations I have personally come to identify more as Queer or Gender Queer, though I suppose that would be objectional to some also.

As to the difference between ">-bleeped-<" and "Trannie" I am not aware of any difference in the context and see it spelled both ways in this local.  I just prefer the ie spelly over the y spelling for the same reasons I replaced the Y for I in my own name and commonly identified by that label along with a lot of others prior to more current influences.

I think probably a lot of the midwest and southeastern attitudes about the term come from the popularity of the term by the Night Club Set,  which is frequented by people more into a "lifestyle" rather then a gender goal, where yes, the term is probably most prevailent, but for a lot of us, we use it in the same spirit as Homosexuals use the term Queer, and to most averae persons, around here, at least, it is perfectly interchangeable with and means the same thing as Transgendered.  Near as I can tell, it is simply looked upon as a short form of Transgendered, for what I run into anyway. 

But as to that "NIght Club Set" who Identify as ">-bleeped-<" or "Trannie" are we to discriminate agaist them to keep any negitive attitudes about them from affecting us?  Are we to discriminate against them to further our own political and social goals?  Sounds like the old TS vs. CD thing to me for the same reasons.  Discrimination is descrimination and we are dangerously close to it ourselves here.


And in a way you are right Lana, overall, the west is a much easier place compaired to many other parts of the country for trans people and homosexuals, but give some credit to why that is, what with our more outfront attitudes.  We can't be ingored as we are openly  living next door, and because we have made friends of those neighbors and they do not see us as a threat, it is harder to condon actions against us.  I have no idea how many Transgendered people are in california, a fantastic number to be sure, but during the elections I remember a figure of around 400,000 or almost a half million registered Gay and Lesbian voters being mentioned as a lobby target for poloticians.  To put this in persective, for me at least, thats almost half the population of Nevada.

If you look at statistical records though, not just headline news, our record of actual violence against TGs and homosexuals, the type that doesn't make the news, is actually as high as anywhere else, but less publically condoned.  When viewed objectively we are as safe as many other minorities who suffer from discriminatory action.  Always remember, discrimination wasn't invented just to harrass us with.  Actually, a Transgender is statistically much safer then a homosexual. 

TG

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Svetlana

Quote from: Terri-Gene on May 30, 2005, 09:13:47 PMBut as to that "NIght Club Set" who Identify as ">-bleeped-<" or "Trannie" are we to discriminate agaist them to keep any negitive attitudes about them from affecting us?  Are we to discriminate against them to further our own political and social goals?  Sounds like the old TS vs. CD thing to me for the same reasons.  Discrimination is descrimination and we are dangerously close to it ourselves here.

it's not discrimination to call two different things by two different names.  that's not discrimination, it's just practical english.  this "night club set" can do their own things and i won't interfere in that.  but i don't want to be connected with it, and that should be a choice i have.  after all, it's not exactly like i'm trying to distance myself from an orphan's charity here, is it?  i'm sure anyone can see why somebody would feel uncomfortable being constantly falsely associated with the "sex crowd".  and yes, i think there are certain elements of that lifestyle that fully deserve distancing oneself from.

QuoteActually, a Transgender is statistically much safer then a homosexual.

i'll be sure to put that on my headstone when i get killed by some angry mob who think i'm a sex menace.
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Terri-Gene

 "it's not discrimination to call two different things by two different names."

Right, just like it wasn't discrimination when I wanted to seperate TS from TG for exactly the same reasons you have professed.  Discrimination is discrimination no matter how you justify it.

And I'm sorry you don't like statistics, but the facts are the facts, thats not to say anyone of might not be next.

TG
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Svetlana

so this is getting ridiculous, now.  if i don't call a duck a kangaroo, apparently i'm discriminating against kangaroos.  maybe we should just have done with it and call anything at all, everything?  very useful communication with each other we'd have then.

show us these "facts", then.  let's see them.  bet they're full of holes, just like most any statistic.
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Leigh

Go to the FBI website

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_03/pdf/03sec2.pdf

Better yet check with your local police force.
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Svetlana

that's some wad of text to wade through.  give us some directions to the relevant bits please.
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Terri-Gene

Hey Lana, your a smart colledge kid, figure it out, If your interested in finding out that is.

TG
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Svetlana

nice hit, you got me right in the gut there, my eyes are watering.  well done.  *clap*
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4years

*coughs loudly*

We are playing nice yes?
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Terri-Gene

  "We are playing nice yes?"

Of course, but like every thing else, it seems like perception gets in the way.

TG
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