Why Do I Feel Uncomfortable When I See a Very "Unpassable" Transwomen

[Rachael]

yeah, im embaraced, i was forced to be a masculine person all my life, and punished for showing feminity, and made to fear it. so yeah, im embaraced about being a transexual, and i feel because of what happened in my life, i deserve teh right to be a woman, not a trans woman, not a transexual, but a woman, nobody will take that from me, and in passing, i hide nothing, im not lieing. i like my hair like this, breasts came with hrt, i dont paticularly feel either way about them, im a girl, i have a girls body, and telling someone im a girl is no lie to me, its the truth. id never lie about the fact i was born not in a girls body, but id only say that if someone asked what physical sex i was born as...

[Elizabeth]

yeah, im embaraced, i was forced to be a masculine person all my life, and punished for showing feminity, and made to fear it. so yeah, im embaraced about being a transexual, and i feel because of what happened in my life, i deserve teh right to be a woman, not a trans woman, not a transexual, but a woman, nobody will take that from me, and in passing, i hide nothing, im not lieing. i like my hair like this, breasts came with hrt, i dont paticularly feel either way about them, im a girl, i have a girls body, and telling someone im a girl is no lie to me, its the truth. id never lie about the fact i was born not in a girls body, but id only say that if someone asked what physical sex i was born as...

Racheal,

I am so sorry to hear you are embarrassed about what you really are. I believe that the truth about you is where your true beauty lies. It is the strength we gain from the struggle that defines who we are. I hope for you that someday you will be able to embrace your TSism as a badge of honor, because it is. The one thing I do know, and you may take this with however many grains of salt as you wish, is that no one will never find true happiness until they can love themselves, worts and all. Pretending one is not TS will not allow this. One can not try to hide who they are and love themselves at the same time.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[melissa90299]

I am a woman, pure and simple, transitioning is all about getting the outside to match the inside so I can live a normal life like any other woman on this planet. I am not fooling anyone by getting people to see me as what I am. A woman. I am not a man in a dress. I am a woman.

[NatalieC]

Thats how I feel Melissa! Like I need to present an outside to match the inside. I am a woman too and I want to make every effort I can to be myself as a woman.
And Elizabeth I dont think I am better than anyone else especially not you. I just feel differently about things than you. I do care what others think about me. I cant help it!

[Rachael]

yeah, im embaraced, i was forced to be a masculine person all my life, and punished for showing feminity, and made to fear it. so yeah, im embaraced about being a transexual, and i feel because of what happened in my life, i deserve teh right to be a woman, not a trans woman, not a transexual, but a woman, nobody will take that from me, and in passing, i hide nothing, im not lieing. i like my hair like this, breasts came with hrt, i dont paticularly feel either way about them, im a girl, i have a girls body, and telling someone im a girl is no lie to me, its the truth. id never lie about the fact i was born not in a girls body, but id only say that if someone asked what physical sex i was born as...

Racheal,

I am so sorry to hear you are embarrassed about what you really are. I believe that the truth about you is where your true beauty lies. It is the strength we gain from the struggle that defines who we are. I hope for you that someday you will be able to embrace your TSism as a badge of honor, because it is. The one thing I do know, and you may take this with however many grains of salt as you wish, is that no one will never find true happiness until they can love themselves, worts and all. Pretending one is not TS will not allow this. One can not try to hide who they are and love themselves at the same time.

Love always,
Elizabeth

no, pure and simple, NO

I am not embaraced about what i really am, im transitioning, im a girl, ive never been a girl, transexual is a label i dont choose to apply, once im post op, im just a girl, end of, hey, i was born with a penis, but im NOT a transexual. the name ashames me, and i cannot associate with transexuality as a part of me, its not, i want the transition over.
i dont wish to be a part of the community when im post op either, even less so as the days go by even now.  but thats my right to decide.
what i am, is a human being, and a female human. my life, my rules.
i dont wish to wear transexual as a badge, you want to? go ahead. but i dont want to, nor do i have to, im transitioning to be a girl on the outside, not something inbetween,, im not proud, nor will i EVER be proud of being a transexual, its a torturous, terrifying, upsetting part of my life i want over, and i will move on, and live my life. i

[melissa90299]

I hate the term transsexual too. Some have started using the term intersexed.

I had a discussion about this in my recovery group where I am out as TS and I was discussing my upcoming SRS and some of the issues that affect my recovery. The facilitator implied that I should be proud of what I am, I said that I am proud to be a woman but not proud to have been born with a birth defect.

[Elizabeth]

yeah, im embaraced, i was forced to be a masculine person all my life, and punished for showing feminity, and made to fear it. so yeah, im embaraced about being a transexual, and i feel because of what happened in my life, i deserve teh right to be a woman, not a trans woman, not a transexual, but a woman, nobody will take that from me, and in passing, i hide nothing, im not lieing. i like my hair like this, breasts came with hrt, i dont paticularly feel either way about them, im a girl, i have a girls body, and telling someone im a girl is no lie to me, its the truth. id never lie about the fact i was born not in a girls body, but id only say that if someone asked what physical sex i was born as...

Racheal,

I am so sorry to hear you are embarrassed about what you really are. I believe that the truth about you is where your true beauty lies. It is the strength we gain from the struggle that defines who we are. I hope for you that someday you will be able to embrace your TSism as a badge of honor, because it is. The one thing I do know, and you may take this with however many grains of salt as you wish, is that no one will never find true happiness until they can love themselves, worts and all. Pretending one is not TS will not allow this. One can not try to hide who they are and love themselves at the same time.

Love always,
Elizabeth

no, pure and simple, NO

I am not embaraced about what i really am, im transitioning, im a girl, ive never been a girl, transexual is a label i dont choose to apply, once im post op, im just a girl, end of, hey, i was born with a penis, but im NOT a transexual. the name ashames me, and i cannot associate with transexuality as a part of me, its not, i want the transition over.
i dont wish to be a part of the community when im post op either, even less so as the days go by even now.  but thats my right to decide.
what i am, is a human being, and a female human. my life, my rules.
i dont wish to wear transexual as a badge, you want to? go ahead. but i dont want to, nor do i have to, im transitioning to be a girl on the outside, not something inbetween,, im not proud, nor will i EVER be proud of being a transexual, its a torturous, terrifying, upsetting part of my life i want over, and i will move on, and live my life. i

Hey, whatever you gotta tell yourself. Your chromosomes are XY, that is male. Despite what you tell yourself, you were born a man and transitioning your sex, hence transsexual, it precisely what you are. Being angry about it, or trying to demean those of us who have accepted this horrible truth, will not change that. Nor will being embarrassed or spending the rest of your life trying to conceal it. But like I said, if you beleive it works for you, then I guess It does.

Just don't presume that because it works for you, that it works for everyone, because it does not. I refuse to be ashamed or feel bad because I am a male in transition. I had no choice. This is what I am. This is how I deal with it.

So, back to where we started. If it bothers you to see people like me, perhaps it's just because it reminds you that you have never accepted and loved yourself for what you truly are. If you were really a woman, we would not be having this conversation because you would not be in a transsexual forum discussing it.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[Shana A]

What I would argue is that the existence of the word "transsexual" itself may be deemed as perhaps an unfortunate creation.

I'm also not a fan of the term transsexual, or any other term that classifies who I am as a psychiatric illness. The gender continuum is quite diverse, there have been people like us for thousands of years. I have no problem with my past history, I was born how I was born and labeled how I was labeled, but that was someone else's perception. No one asked me 

I have no need to hide who I am from people who I'm close to. I don't advertise it to complete strangers, but that's because of safety issues. I want to live my life, not be a statistic.

Elizabeth, I admire you and your strength to live as who you are!

zythyra

[Chynna]

IT actually makes me smile! (No, im not mentally challenged!) at least not on paper...
It just reminds me of the struggle and my journey and all WE ALL go through just to live OUR LIVES as we need to truly live!

When I see an "unpassable" trans woman I think to myself now theres a person with character and guts someone whoe isn't afraid to be who she is, someone who could careless about the opinions of the masses.....someone who truly knows what to live life means....someone Id like to walk down the street with and go to lunch with in a crowded restuarant...because I tell you the chick as it going on where it counts upstairs and in her heart!

Besides NONE of "PASS" 100% of the time!

So whats the point?

Oh, And I never realistically refer to myself as a "girl" i'm just a woman!
Also refer to has the chick in the fitted jeans, tank top, and baseball cap on!
on occassion

[Rachael]

Hey, whatever you gotta tell yourself. Your chromosomes are XY, that is male. Despite what you tell yourself, you were born a man and transitioning your sex, hence transsexual, it precisely what you are. Being angry about it, or trying to demean those of us who have accepted this horrible truth, will not change that. Nor will being embarrassed or spending the rest of your life trying to conceal it. But like I said, if you beleive it works for you, then I guess It does.

Just don't presume that because it works for you, that it works for everyone, because it does not. I refuse to be ashamed or feel bad because I am a male in transition. I had no choice. This is what I am. This is how I deal with it.

So, back to where we started. If it bothers you to see people like me, perhaps it's just because it reminds you that you have never accepted and loved yourself for what you truly are. If you were really a woman, we would not be having this conversation because you would not be in a transsexual forum discussing it.

Love always,
Elizabeth

Ok elizabeth, your dead set on makeing me belive what you want. hypocrite...
and how do you know what my  chromasomes are huh?
for your information, thier XXY, and im intersexed (no melissa, IS isnt a new word for TS,). so im not a man, but ive transitioned. im a girl with birth defects. although the same applys to ts girls... in your own sentiment, let people decide what they want to call themselves, you forcing people to accept thier trans, is as much a falsity....

Chynna:yeah, some do pass 100% of the time...
melissa: IS =/= TS

[Lori]

my  chromasomes are huh?
for your information, thier XXY, and im intersexed (no melissa, IS isnt a new word for TS,). so im not a man, but ive transitioned. im a girl with birth defects. although the same applys to ts girls... in your own sentiment, let people decide what they want to call themselves, you forcing people to accept thier trans, is as much a falsity....

Just so you know, those with Klinefelter Syndrome are considered male, not female.

[Rachael]

and you felt like telling me this because?

[seldom]

Most younger transitioners are more likely to pass 100% of the time.  In fact anybody who transitions under the age of 25 tends to pass 100% of the time.  The younger you transition, the more likely you will pass 100% when you fully transition.  It is a simple fact of life with transitioning.

Gender identity disorder is the term to describe a mental illness.  Its found in the DSM.  I HATE this term, because it is the DSM that classifies any transsexual as mentally ill. 

Transsexual is a term used to describe a medical condition, not necessarily a mental illness. The term predates the classification of gender identity disorder for transsexuals in the DSM.  It was used to classify the medical condition before transsexuals were classified as a disorder under the DSM-III. A rotten man named Dr. Ray Blanchard was largely responsible for it being classified as a disorder under the DSM. I could go through the history, but the word transsexual is not inherantly describing a mental illness.  There is a strong argument to be made that associating it with a mental illness was a massive intolerant mistake.  Several countries do not take it as such.  Associating the word transsexual with a mental illness is incorrect assumption. You yourself are falling victim to the patriarchy by doing so.  It used to be gender dysphoria syndrome, which was assumed to be a physical condition.  Transsexual is a medical condition, its not a psychiatric disorder.   I will argue to death that Gender Identity Disorder needs to be tossed in the dustbin of history because it classifies transsexuals as mentally ill, the term transsexual itself is a necessary term, because it best describes the medical condition in which we suffer.  Transsexual does not have to mean mentally ill, Dr. Ray Blanchard and the DSM are to blame for that association. 

There needs to be a medical classification for what we are to get the necessary treatments.  Transsexual is it.  I rather have it be transsexual then gender identity disorder, which is inherantly describing a mental illness.  Transsexual does not have to mean mentally ill. 

I apologize for the paragraph with my attempt at a history lesson.  Transsexuals were not classified as mentally ill until the early eighties and the DSM-III.  We are not crazy. 


XXY, transitioners, some identify as intersexed, others do identify as transsexual.  When Rachael says she is not transsexual, she is absolutely right XXY is an intersexed syndrome when it gets down to it. 

[Elizabeth]

Hey, whatever you gotta tell yourself. Your chromosomes are XY, that is male. Despite what you tell yourself, you were born a man and transitioning your sex, hence transsexual, it precisely what you are. Being angry about it, or trying to demean those of us who have accepted this horrible truth, will not change that. Nor will being embarrassed or spending the rest of your life trying to conceal it. But like I said, if you beleive it works for you, then I guess It does.

Just don't presume that because it works for you, that it works for everyone, because it does not. I refuse to be ashamed or feel bad because I am a male in transition. I had no choice. This is what I am. This is how I deal with it.

So, back to where we started. If it bothers you to see people like me, perhaps it's just because it reminds you that you have never accepted and loved yourself for what you truly are. If you were really a woman, we would not be having this conversation because you would not be in a transsexual forum discussing it.

Love always,
Elizabeth

Ok elizabeth, your dead set on makeing me belive what you want. hypocrite...
and how do you know what my  chromasomes are huh?
for your information, thier XXY, and im intersexed (no melissa, IS isnt a new word for TS,). so im not a man, but ive transitioned. im a girl with birth defects. although the same applys to ts girls... in your own sentiment, let people decide what they want to call themselves, you forcing people to accept thier trans, is as much a falsity....

Chynna:yeah, some do pass 100% of the time...
melissa: IS =/= TS

My apologies, IS is a completely different thing to me. Unlike me, you are not chemically male. Perhaps that is why not being mistaken for a man is so important for you. However, by the same token, you can't know what it is like to be XY and still believe you were given the wrong body. You have a genetic defect you are trying to correct. No one knows exactly why people like me feel we are in the wrong body. We just do, and nothing can change that.

However, just as I can have empathy for someone who is IS, while not experiencing the same thing as them, perhaps you might try to put yourself in the shoes of someone like me, instead of just assuming we all feel like you. You accuse me of hypocrisy, yet my position has been consistent and one of acceptance. It is not me that is intolerant of others not like me, it is you. It matters little to me what causes your dysphoria, IS or TS, it's enough to know that you are suffering.

I just don't believe in trying to blow out someone else's candle in an attempt to make mine seem brighter. In any event, it's apparent that I am not going to get through to you. I guess you are right and I am wrong. If you see me in public, come and tell me how much I disgust you. I am sure it will make you feel better. And since I won't care what you think, it won't bother me.

Love always,
Elizabeth

[Rachael]

heh, i never said you disgust me, and i go out of my way to be nice to any trans person i happen to encounter, i know how much it hurts worrying.
and my being IS is nothing to do with my decision to transition, many IS people DONT transition. i just happen to share your dysphoria.
im no better or worse than anyone...

[melissa90299]

I am not going to get into the 100% passing issue, I will just concede that since I pass 100% of the time, (based on the fact that I never get anything but Miss or Ma'am, no strange looks, etc and people's jaws have dropped when I have disclosed) than others must as well.

So if that is the criteria I pass 100% of the time and I pass despite a less than perfect feminine voice.

I am not going to get into the 100% passing issue, I will just concede that since I pass 100% of the time, (based on the fact that I never get anything but Miss or Ma'am, no strange looks, etc and people's jaws have dropped when I have disclosed) than others must as well.

So if that is the criteria I pass 100% of the time and I pass despite a less than perfect feminine voice.

BTW I know IS does not = TS but I read somewhere that some TSs were adopting that term though not technically IS.

[Maud]

Tbh I don't see how anyone's chromosones make any difference what so ever to how valid a woman you are, I don't deny I'm TS it's simply just not that big of a deal for me and it's not all that relevent unless someone really needs to know (only one person in my personal life has ever warrented telling imo) it's not like I'm making a huge effort to supress the fact I just fail to care.

If you're suggesting I wear a T-shirt which proclaims that i'm TS then you're quite simply having a laugh.

Elizabeth, if you're happy living the way you are then I've got to say good on you, I've nothing against you for that at all but your experience simply does not apply to many others, especially mine.

[Maud]

I don't really see how your chromosones effect how valid a woman you are, it's not like anyone can see the things.

[Shana A]

Transsexual is a term used to describe a medical condition, not necessarily a mental illness. The term predates the classification of gender identity disorder for transsexuals in the DSM.  It was used to classify the medical condition before transsexuals were classified as a disorder under the DSM-III.

My mistake. Funny, when I was writing my post, I first wrote not liking to be classified as a medical condition, then changed it to mental illness... I should have left it as it was.

Regardless, I dislike classification of my gender variance (even that term I'm not crazy about as it still implies normalcy for the binary system) as a medical condition. I understand that some term is needed at this time so one can get insurance, etc., but ultimately I'd like to see wider acceptance of gender differences and the end of usage of such antiquated terminology. Who we are has existed throughout human history, it is much older than these current medical names; transsexual, transvestite, homosexual, etc. I'd like terms that celebrate our differences.

zythyra

[Rachael]

Yes, im a transexual, because being intersex has NOTHING TO DO WITH ONES DESIRE TO TRANSITION.

Regina, i wholeheartedly agree