What do we think of this?

[suzifrommd]

First rule of stealth, it all or nothing. You either tell no one at all or you tell everyone and deal with it.

Who made THIS rule? Did we get to vote on it or was it imposed on us?

[Danielle Emmalee]

Who made THIS rule? Did we get to vote on it or was it imposed on us?

I think it was Spiderman.

[Lesley_Roberta]

Who made THIS rule? Did we get to vote on it or was it imposed on us?

This is where I allow you to wake up and smell the coffee

Hey I used the word 'rule' you can use any term that floats your boat of course.

You will find, life rarely cares or even gives a damn for us when we ignore a wide range of truths.

But feel free to insist that there is a way of being 'partially out'.

I reserve the right to say I told you so.

[dreaming.forever]

Sounds like the best thing to do is let your friends know how you feel about them telling other people you're trans.

Personally, I preferred it when my friend would tell his friends I'm trans before I met them (at my request), since I am completely open about it and am honestly quite tired of explaining what it means to be trans. For me, it's less awkward if they know in advance, since I don't have to wonder when the right time is to bring it up (I don't always pass and I can't always tell when I'm not passing vs when I'm just being self-conscious about it) or whether they noticed, etc. There also seems to be fewer intrusive questions that way--people don't seem to be shy at all asking about my junk if I tell them myself that I'm trans, but if my friend tells them, they don't ask that sort of thing.

But things would be different if I was fully transitioned, I think.

No matter what your situation is, I think the best thing is to just make sure your friends are on the same page as you as far as your feelings about being trans and discussing it with others go. If they don't know you aren't comfortable with them bringing it up, then you can't really blame them for doing so--sounds like your friend only had good intentions.

[suzifrommd]

This is where I allow you to wake up and smell the coffee

Hey I used the word 'rule' you can use any term that floats your boat of course.

You will find, life rarely cares or even gives a damn for us when we ignore a wide range of truths.

But feel free to insist that there is a way of being 'partially out'.

I reserve the right to say I told you so.

Hmm. I feel put in my place.

Here are the facts of my life:
* True stealth is impossible. Everyone where I work has known me as a man for 12 years. I'm 52 years old. I'm not about to start a new life somewhere else. All my current friends and acquaintances have witnessed my transition.
* That being said, when I meet new people, I would like them to see me as a woman. How I got that way is none of their business. It's my truth to share with them when and how I see fit.
* Of course I can't and wouldn't try to control the buzz of gossip that will spread the circumstances of my past. That's human nature and there are many people who know how I used to present and are delighted to share what they know. I don't fool myself into thinking they owe me any discretion. However, I expect my close friends not to be in that category.

I'm not sure what "coffee" I should "wake up and smell".

[Donna Elvira]

Hmm. I feel put in my place.

Here are the facts of my life:
* True stealth is impossible. Everyone where I work has known me as a man for 12 years. I'm 52 years old. I'm not about to start a new life somewhere else. All my current friends and acquaintances have witnessed my transition.
* That being said, when I meet new people, I would like them to see me as a woman. How I got that way is none of their business. It's my truth to share with them when and how I see fit.
* Of course I can't and wouldn't try to control the buzz of gossip that will spread the circumstances of my past. That's human nature and there are many people who know how I used to present and are delighted to share what they know. I don't fool myself into thinking they owe me any discretion. However, I expect my close friends not to be in that category.

I'm not sure what "coffee" I should "wake up and smell".

Hi Suzi,
I am finding myself more and more often in the situation you described at the beginning of this thread ie. meeting friends of friends and not knowing what they know about my past. Since everyone is always very polite and since end of the day, I don't really care very much one way or another, I have no idea if they know I am trans or not. However, as I don't believe I am passable enough yet to handle close scrutiny over a long period of time , I suspect that no matter what they know or don't know about me beforehand, realistically they have got to pick up on something, at minimum my rather large hands 

Having thought about that a bit and given the number of people who already know about my past anyway, on balance I now think that people knowing would probably make life easier for me. That way no one has to pretend anything and the interactions I have with new people would be that much more relaxed. Reading about the incident you described, I strongly suspect that your friend's intention was very much along these lines and I wouldn't be too hard on her about it, unless of course you really think you can already go completely stealth?

The only exception to this are my interactions with people in public places where I definitely prefer to be stealth but that seems to be working pretty OK.
Warm regards.
Donna

[Amy The Bookworm]

I'm not sure what "coffee" I should "wake up and smell".

Why, Folgers, of course! Preferebly caffeinated if the goal is to get someone to wake up 

Personally I kinda feel this is something that's probably different for everyone. Like many things we deal with. I don't feel there's a right or wrong or a stead fast rule.

[Lesley_Roberta]

I LIKE that Facebook couldn't preserve your privacy if it was life and death actually.

I made a point of blathering on ad naseum about myself on Facebook. I HOPE that Facebook has outed me to whole damned planet.

It gets damned tiring repeating ones self over and over and over and over to the just don't get it crowd.

Stealth, regardless of the reason, and there are many valid ones, is none the less, like preserving a lie, an illusion, a falsehood. And telling us it matters, that one's life might be at risk, simply does NOT alter the fact, that it is still as I said the same as preserving a lie, an illusion, and a falsehood.

It's a story you are constantly monitoring, a burden, a drag, a cross to bear, a hassle, a nuisance.

I'd rather get fired, and be bereft of phoney friends and false family and just be bloddy well done with it to be honest.
I'd rather be f*** homeless and free of the carefully crafted fascade all things considered.

But that's me.

If that is NOT you, that is your life, and you get to choose that path.
It's a road I never plan to walk myself though.

The only people unaware I am Lesley Roberta and female, also have no idea I even exist.
I don't have enough hours in the day to fret over unknown people that might have issues with me and the fact I am a transwoman.
I'll spit on their ignorance if and when it arrives eh.
Not going to lose sleep worrying over future spilled milk.

I know this much.
I have met a wealth of great people since I decided to be the real me.
I'd have never met them, if I had remained a hidden person, an unknown quantity.
Some of the people in my life today, have done more for me in a year, than some of the people that were in my life for decades, and have long since gone for one reason or another.

Sometimes, the people you lose, were never there to begin with.
Sometimes it is a good thing when people are forced to be the people they actually are.

[suzifrommd]

she was probably doing it for your sake, out of good will. it's just something that should be unnecessary to do, but not all people realize.

If she felt the need to "warn" someone, then it likely wasn't because she thought you would feel awkward, but because she would feel awkward.

I do think she meant well.

I don't know your friend's intentions, but I think sometimes it's not even about the passing issue but the 'everyone should know' issue.

There could be lots of reasons, you will never know for sure.

If your friend did something wrong, let them know.

Sounds like the best thing to do is let your friends know how you feel about them telling other people you're trans.

We actually did have about a 20-minute conversation afterward about why it bothered me. She explained her motives, so I do have a good idea why she did it and she knows I wasn't happy.

My friend is a very bright, very analytical woman, and she was somewhat defensive. She gave the example that if she had two friends, a brash right-wing apologist and an equally bold left-wing advocate, she would definitely ask each one whether the presence of the other would bother them, so would reveal the other's political leanings to the other.

I asked whether she would do the same if one of those hypothetical friends were very private about their political beliefs. She said she wouldn't, but I still got the idea that my objections were tearing her in two - that she felt an obligation to her other friend not to place her in a situation (being with a transgender person) that might make her uncomfortable.

All your wonderful responses have helped clarified what bothered me about the whole thing. I'm uncomfortable on three levels:

1. Not happy to be outed by a close friend without my permission.

2. The involvement of my passability. An element of my friend's motivation involved the likelyhood that her friend would read me as trans.

3. That she would have considered excluding me because I'm trans if her friend told me a trans person would make her uncomfortable.

I think #3 is the worst. While it's a laudable goal to avoid discomfort on anyone's part, "those types make me uncomfortable" is simply not a basis for social exclusion among decent people. It hurts that my friend would have been willing to exclude me on that basis.

[Danielle Emmalee]

3. That she would have considered excluding me because I'm trans if her friend told me a trans person would make her uncomfortable.

I think #3 is the worst. While it's a laudable goal to avoid discomfort on anyone's part, "those types make me uncomfortable" is simply not a basis for social exclusion among decent people. It hurts that my friend would have been willing to exclude me on that basis.

This is a tough situation.  It would be great if all of your friends' friends were okay with trans people but I wouldn't blame the friend for being friends with them despite this.  Its kind of like having a friend that has a friend that might have a problem with my race.  Sure its not okay to be racist and I wouldn't want any friends that were racist, but I wouldn't fault my friends for wanting to be friends with someone who is racist, I would just tell them if they want to hang out with me it should not involve that person as well.  As for her not knowing if her friend would be okay with it, I don't think its right to out you to find out. It would be uncomfortable to allow the meeting to be the way to find out, but that is up to you to let your friend know that they shouldn't blame themselves if it happens to be true and that you are okay with taking that chance and tell her what you will do if the situation does come up.  If you are okay with taking the chance and she is not, that's up to you to decide if you want to be outed by her anytime you hang out with a third person or to not ever let a situation like that to happen either by not being their friend anymore or only hanging out with them alone.

[Lesley_Roberta]

The trick with friends, is they insist on being who they actually are.

Dang, that sounds so unfair eh.

Now read that a few times till you get it eh.

If you like person B and you like person C and you know person B will not like person C, you suck it up and accept they likely will not want to be together with each other even if they both like person A that being you.

I deal with this all the time. You simply don't get to be all in the same room at the same time. And thus, having an event, and asking both to come, is only to cause you trouble.

Sooo if you plan to keep on with the stealth, you better start inventing a decent cover story, or this WILL happen again eh.

Or do you plan to muzzle all of your friends?

[aleon515]

First rule of stealth, it all or nothing. You either tell no one at all or you tell everyone and deal with it.

Well not everybody here is stealth. Why do people assume this here? I am not stealth, but it is IMPOSSIBLE to tell everyone. And to protect people who do chose to go stealth it's probably important that people know it is not considered okay to "out someone". The person gets to "out" themselves. But tbh, not everyone really understands this. It is kind of a cisprivilege thing that people don't really take time to think about this.

Good for asking he what was going on. I don't actually talk to this person too much. I am very sure when I do that she will not understand why it bothered me and will have her reasons which will seem legitimate to her.


--Jay