Reincarnation

[rose]

i asked the same Q before i looked into many website including the youtube looking for proof i found few
anyway i think its very acceptable idea than heaven and hell i think there is a god however i dont believe in any Religion but i Adopt reincarnation
as idea for what is in after death

maybe its because some part of me hope to reborn as female in next lives

i dont know really but human life is so valuable i dont wanna be tree or something

i wish i had some memory of past life but i dont

[Jess42]

i asked the same Q before i looked into many website including the youtube looking for proof i found few
anyway i think its very acceptable idea than heaven and hell i think there is a god however i dont believe in any Religion but i Adopt reincarnation
as idea for what is in after death

maybe its because some part of me hope to reborn as female in next lives

i dont know really but human life is so valuable i dont wanna be tree or something
i wish i had some memory of past life but i dont

I just really don't think that is the way it works but I did have to laugh when I read what you wrote.
A tree is a tree. Yes it is alive but has really no conscious life that I have ever heard or read about.

As for proof, sometimes the proof is well hidden and not meant to be found. THat is where Faith in whatever you believe comes into play. One really good book on reincarnation that I have read is Journey of Souls. Another book that you can look into is the Books of the Dead, Thibetan and Egyptian, or books that are written about them and the mention of having to "drink from the river of forgetfullness" before be incarnated again. For example, too much baggage in the past in this life has an effect on our present lives. Just imagine the baggage that would come from knowing everything about your past lives could mess this life up. What if you were a murderer in a past life? That is the best reason that I can give that we can't recall these past lives because the guilt may be unbearable or we may all be commiting suicide for do overs when this life gets so screwed up.

[Shana-chan]

@rose: Even though I have memories of a past life or two, I can't say whether they're actual memories or not. Still, one thing you might try considering is that maybe one reason why you and maybe most (Don't know the percentage for this) people don't have memories of a past life is because this is your first life. It may be but it may also not be, just offering a perspective on it. Also, who knows why some of us have memories of a past life in the first place and who can say how and what will insure someone is reborn. While reincarnation I believe is possible, I don't rule out the possibility that not everyone is reborn through reincarnation. Reborn through heaven yeah and I'd like to believe that if through heaven then we'd get the correct body to match our gender.

or we may all be commiting suicide for do overs when this life gets so screwed up.

^ This! That is probably the BEST answer I've ever heard for a reason why we can't remember. (or remember much)

[Johnny Tristan]

This might be bold, but personally, I know for a fact that reincarnation exists. I'm not someone to shove my beliefs down anyone's throat, so I often keep quiet about it but I remember my past life from before. I don't remember every single memory. I mean, hell, I don't even remember what happened to me five years ago but these memories are strong and vivid in my mind. For years, I thought it might have been dreams or a huge fabrication in my mind in compensation for being born in the wrong body.

Then, about six years ago, I saw a photograph that was taken a little over fifty years ago and I recognised everyone who was in that picture-- even myself, by name. I dug into it deeper until it drove me mad and I was correct. About everything. Memories flowed through my mind with even more ease and buried spiritual feelings were raging inside of me. I was always called an old soul, but I dismissed reincarnation all my life since I was raised nothing but Christian.

My girlfriend helped me through it, because I went through a harsh grieving period. I was depressed about it. I was actively thinking about the people before and it was painful. I had the same recurring nightmare about getting murdered. It was in the same way, in the same place, and by the same person each time. The earliest nightmare I had of this place was back when I was too young to have understood that kind of violence. I recall being at the most four years old and I was heavily shielded by my parents (they never even watched action movies or the news around me until I got older).

My body dysphoria is crippling. Too crippling. I've never been able to be comfortable or happy. It's not just my chest or genitals, I experience major insecurity even in my face and hands. Long before I saw that photograph, and the other ones, I wanted to look like this set person in my mind-- who had a different appearance altogether. It was wishing for something impossible with my genetics. Unless a miracle happened, I could never look like that. I have a hard time and can't be intimate in this body, because I know or remember how having sex felt like as a man. Even masturbation or simply ejaculating. Before, I thought I was just filling the blanks in my head to help me fantasise and get off, but maybe not. Also, I never heard the word "penis" or should know what balls were, let alone what they would look like... so why when I was 2-3 years old, did I ask my grandmother where my penis and balls were when I was in the bath? And why I was so scared and distraught about my current gentialia?

It explains too that I always responded to the name "John", especially when I was younger. I never responded to my birth name but my head would whip around whenever I heard someone calling out for someone named that. My girlfriend and I have this theory that I may have been born in the wrong body, not by choice, but by coming back too soon. I'm a masculine spirit. I'm very male and back then, I was the stereotypical boy and man. I might have been too impatient and angry... the way that I went out was traumatic. It's funny, because in this life, I'm partially disabled and experience pain in all the same areas but no matter how many times I went to the hospital or the ER because it was too painful or felt like I was "dying", the doctors would always say that my results came back as normal.

I could go on and on about this, but I don't want to bore any of you. Besides, I don't expect anyone to believe me. It just is what it is.

[Blue Rabbit]

Interesting documentary on this.



I've in the past done some research into this such as the video above. And there is something! Is that reincarnation or an active mind at such a young age? I don't know.

Personally I used to as a kid have thoughts or memories about a woman who I never met, was that my past life? My imagination? Or even a memory? I don't know. And it was at such a young age I only remember snippets of the thoughts anyway. Much too less for me to make sense of.

However it doesn't matter if reincarnation exists or not, depending on how you look at it it cannot be real. By this I mean even cases where people claim to remember large chunks of a past life, they only remember snippets. If you cannot remember the past life, if you have a new personality, a new body and a new mind. You are not that previous person but a new one.

If I take two batteries and name them bob and jill. Jill is empty and bob is full. If I remove all the energy within bob and put it all into Jill, Is jill bob?
It is possible the energy of one person may transfer to the new when a death occurs but no matter how you look at it the new born is a completely new person, gender, mind, body everything. Everything that made you, you in a previous life is gone. Energy can be transferred but I don't believe if reincarnation exists that I was Bob the mighty knight in my past life. I just live because when bob died his energy was used in order to create me.

Another example, when you die and get put into the grave, worms, soil and all that take nutrients from your body and then plants use that to grow. If I died and a plant grew from the nutrients from my body, is that plant me? Or did it just use my energy that I no longer need to spring to life?

[Shana-chan]

@Johnny: Some might call it bold, others foolish and arrogant but me? I call it, stating a fact that you yourself believe to be true. Will anyone believe you? I know some will such as myself and I thank you for posting that, read it all. Very interesting. I'd forgotten of cases I'd heard somewhere where people had remembered their past life, then went and dug into what they remembered and found out proof that the life they remembered really happened.

@Blue: Ok, from what I read on your post, I took two things away from your perspective on reincarnation and the examples you gave. The 1st being you are right in that energy was used to bring you to life and some residue of the person whose energy was used came into you. However, the 2nd is another theory in what might be the case and if this theory is correct then you're right but also wrong. Right in energy used to bring you to life and right in that you ARE the new being that is here and now but wrong because you're also still the old person you remember. As for the example of you have new feelings and such that make you who you are now. Well, that's simply because you grew up exp. new stuff in your new body thus the theory (which btw has shown some good evidence that it's true) that how we grow up, what we go through and who we have in our lives and such makes us who we are is very true and very correct however, if reincarnation is applied to this then, a small part of you is still the old you. That's my take on it. Thanks for posting that vid btw, I might try and watch it later. Oh and there is one other possible theory that could tie into your explanation. That battery example is what made me think of it. Ok, in simple terms, say someone copied a person's soul and memories onto another person. While I say copied and while this implies the person who received the copied stuff is now the person who had their memories, soul etc. copied, one could also say this isn't true, especially when you consider two different bodies and souls here. I hope that wasn't confusing but best I can explain besides pointing to a cartoon where two characters switched bodies but say one didn't switch into the other but took over the other body or is now in a fused state.

[Jasriella]

What if there's just a stew of consciousness and when you're born you take a scoop from that stew and that's what makes you, well you, and when you die your scoop of consciousness goes back into the stew?

[Shana-chan]

What if there's just a stew of consciousness and when you're born you take a scoop from that stew and that's what makes you, well you, and when you die your scoop of consciousness goes back into the stew?

That's another way of putting it but goes along with one of the theories I recently mentioned. I kind of like yours more though. mmm, soul stew. 

[Jasriella]

That's another way of putting it but goes along with one of the theories I recently mentioned. I kind of like yours more though. mmm, soul stew. 

It's the theory that I find most likely to be true, which I don't like very much either since it takes away what make me just me.

[Shana-chan]

It's the theory that I find most likely to be true, which I don't like very much either since it takes away what make me just me.

Why do you find it the most likely to be true?

[Jess42]

What if there's just a stew of consciousness and when you're born you take a scoop from that stew and that's what makes you, well you, and when you die your scoop of consciousness goes back into the stew?

There are theories of a collective consciousness. There are also theories of genetic memories in which memories are stored in the genes.

As for collective consciousness, I do believe that we could call that God, The Creator, Allah or any other name any religion uses. In other words the Focal Point of all of us or The One or a Cosmic Concious Singularity or The Akashic Records. In my opinion though a Collective Consciousness is more of a storage and collection of all conscious memories that have ever been and will be since it is possible that time possibly doesn't exist outside of our own minds. We are a part of it and it is a part of us.

But since we all have unique personalities, unique experiences, unique lives and unique memories we are our own unique spirits on our own unique learing paths in order to hone our Souls for something more than physical life. I really don't take the theory of genetic memory too seriously since there is seemingly few if any genetic connections between past live and present lives during past life regressions. Yes it is possible but I really don't think the memories that genes can possibly hold can create a whole other life in the consciousnesses above the subconscious.

Like I said before, we are not meant to remember past lives because it would have a profound effect on our present incarnation. Yes there may be some flashes, memories, feelings, ailments and so on that may be hold overs from past incarnations but usually something that will cause strife in this life will remain well hidden even under a past life regression. The future death of an individual cannot be seen by a person in a past life regression because it would change the path of the current incarnation.

Like I said earlier, the best book that I have ever read on the subject and there have been many is Journy of Souls, if you can find it.

As for reincarnation in today's Spirituality, it dissapeard in the 500's AD. It is even theorized that during Christ's time it was a serious dynamic in human Spirituality and there are quite a few instances in the Bible that hints upon it. They are vague and most people have been taught that these instances are just symbolic but the one about a sinner dying a thousand deaths is one that I just can't see as symbolic. Especially when if you go to hell and suffer for eternity if you are bad or go to heaven and spend and eternity in bliss if you are good. What it tells me is that the Soul or Spirit isn't perfected enough(sinning) and has to live a physical life and therefore physical death over and over until it is perfected enough to go on to another existance whatever that may be.

The Gnostic books that were left out of the Bible hints about much more mysticism and reincarnation in the earliest stages of Christianity than the King James version does and if you can ever look them up and read them on the net I suggest it. Why were they left out? Books like the Book of Mary and the Book of Judas hints that things may not quite be what they seem in today's Spiritual environment. That Judas did what Christ wanted him to do and did not betray Christ in the least little bit and that Mary Magdeline may have been Jesus' wife or lover since she herself was a deciple and the closest one of Christ's. In an already big book, what are a few more Books in the New Testement and why leave them out when the Roman Empire adopted Christianity? I just find it amazingly strange that the first and closest followers of Christ and His times on Earth were mysteriously left out of the Bible. Some of these writers were only a generation or two from Christ's own time.

Whether or not reincarnation is true is debateable. In the past it has been an accepted part of Spirtual dynamics. When the body dies, it is true that it rots and becomes just a bunch of minerals and material of this planet. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. So you that you see in the mirror dies and will remain dead but the consciousness, Soul or Spirit that animates who you see in the mirror is that part of us that goes on. That is energy that allows your heat to beat, brain and mind to function as one and energy cannot be destroyed or so they say. Regardless of whether it is true or not one thing for certain is that we will all find out one day.   

[Jasriella]

So you that you see in the mirror dies and will remain dead but the consciousness, Soul or Spirit that animates who you see in the mirror is that part of us that goes on. That is energy that allows your heat to beat, brain and mind to function as one and energy cannot be destroyed or so they say. Regardless of whether it is true or not one thing for certain is that we will all find out one day.   

Didn't Albert Einstein come up with a similar theory? Of how there is still energy remaining even after the body has been dead for a while or something?

[Colleen♡Callie]

Energy can't be created or destroyed, just transferred, changed, converted and stored.  Physically, when our bodies die, the process of decay begins, we break down, becoming the energy and nourishment for other things.  It is the same for matter, can neither be created or destroyed, just changed.

All matter and energy originated with the big bang, before the big bang, we don't know. 

This is not taking the metaphysical into account though, which I do believe in.  This was just to touch further on the energy points made.

[Jess42]

Didn't Albert Einstein come up with a similar theory? Of how there is still energy remaining even after the body has been dead for a while or something?

Yeah it was Einstein's theory in that energy can be transformed but not destroyed. The one thing that I find most intriguing about stories of people dying during surgery, having and out of body experience and then coming back and being able to recall what the circumstances and even conversations during their death is that how can they recall all of this when under anesthesia. I have had minor surgery and I totally lost that time. No dreams, no recollections, just "are you ready?" Me, " I guess so." and the next thing I know and hear is the Dr. asking me how I feel and an hour had went by. So if anesthesia knocks a person totally unconscious and someone that dies during this time leaves their body and can recall certain things and what was said, where does that come from. There were no dreams for me or even any sense of the passage of time. It's like I blinked my eyes but that blink lasted an hour in real time but less than a second in my perception of time.

[Jess42]

Energy can't be created or destroyed, just transferred, changed, converted and stored.  Physically, when our bodies die, the process of decay begins, we break down, becoming the energy and nourishment for other things.  It is the same for matter, can neither be created or destroyed, just changed.

All matter and energy originated with the big bang, before the big bang, we don't know. 

This is not taking the metaphysical into account though, which I do believe in.  This was just to touch further on the energy points made.

You got me thinking on that one. I should have emphasised intellegent energy when talking about consciousness. Energy is abundant but very little of it seems to be intellegent.

[Colleen♡Callie]

Even unconscious our minds are active.  We still hear and smell, etc.  Our awareness of this however is shut off, given that we are not conscious.  But it is there, being processed and filtered through our working memory (aka our short term memory).  The shock of dying could have been enough to rouse their awareness enough to commit the sounds they heard around them and the dream they had.

Like when your asleep and dreaming, but not in a deep sleep, and someone calls your name to wake you, but it just becomes part of the dream.

That'd be the skeptics explanation of recounting the conversation.

Now, there's really no foreseeable way to explain how they can recount specific visual events that occurred while their eyes were closed.  I guess you could claim medical shows gave them enough understanding to imagine a surgery happening, but that would, for me, only work with generic situations not specific one.

Like I said, I believe in the metaphysical, but also like to consider other ways and explanations that can account for things.

[Colleen♡Callie]

You got me thinking on that one. I should have emphasised intellegent energy when talking about consciousness. Energy is abundant but very little of it seems to be intellegent.

This is true.  But is it our complex cellular structure that is intelligent or the energy?  There are intelligent computers that run on regular electricity.  It's the complex structure of circuitry and chips that is the intelligence.

Then again, without the energy, we are nothing but organic matter without life or intelligence, and that computer is just metal, plastc and silicone. 

Perhaps it is the energy.  The more complex the pattern the energy takes, the more intelligent it is.  Our neural pathways compared to say, gravity.

I like this thread, gives me stuff to ponder.

[Jess42]

You know, I am gonna kinda' get off topic on this but not really because to acknowledge reincarnation you have to acknowledge that some part of ourselves escape from the bonds of the physical body. Yes all of that can be explained exaclty the way you described but for some reason I just can't believe it. I am extremely skeptical but I also at the same time investigate paranormal occurances especially if they are causing someone some some negative experiences. Not so much anymore since everybody and their family now are investigators but occasionally I do. I catch things on digital voice recorders and I catch things on video. Most of what I catch such as "orbs" or mysterious mists aren't even considered, too many variables involved with that. And when it comes to voices if I can't make it out clearly without enhancing the crap out of it, I don't even consder that either. So with that said, I only delve deeper in about 5-10% of the evidence that I do capture. When I go back and try to recreate what I captured or find any plausable reason for it, usually I can debunk it on normal every day things. That leaves me with about 2% of the evidence that I have as legitimate paranormal activity.

I also delve in parapsychology and most times I can make a psychological reason. Fear is a big big factor in paranormal activity, whether it is fear of death or the unknown or just things that go bump in the night. Fear magnifies normal occurances if the person has no idea what or where nioses or shadows are  coming from. Shadow people that are so prevailant in the paranormal ocurrances are purely explainable through parapsychology and the way the brain is hard wired and I have experienced thes "shadow people" myself but know them for what they are.  When you see one it will take you by suprise but on further investigation, the mind is hardwired to recognize human shapes and the same way with voices in order to seek other humans out. This is an evolutionary hold over in the brain so as to fecognize our own species and then band together. But in the same instance if someone believes they are haunted, psycholgically they are truly haunted and it and occurances build and the connections are mad in the brain and the haunting to the person becomes extrememly real to them. yes I do have shadows but not shadow people on vcr tape that I don't even know will play anymore without falling apart. Most of the stuff is from a long time ago when cassette both video and audio ruled the world. God I'm old.

But there is that 2% that even my skeptic mind can't explain. Full sentences answering a question that I or someone else asked. In one, a certain voice that kind of puts me in the mind that I am the ghost to the person on the tape. He sounds startled and says clearly, "who's there?" a pause and then, Is anyone there, who are you?" This chilled me clean to the bone and I have never captured anything else like that again. I have shadows crossing rooms that do not seem to be against a wall and trying to recreate the shadows were to no avail and believe me I try to debunk everything that I catch just to be sure.

Could some of this be what we call residual, stored in minerals or other materials like the smell of smoke in wood that is released during certain temperatures and meteorolgical conditions? Yes, no doubt in my mind. Also minerals deposits like limstone and quartz crystals can supposedly store emotions especially hieghtened either positive or negative and so on or just basic human life to play over and over again when certain conditions are just right. But asking questions and getting legitimate responses to those questions lead me to believe that some are intellegent occurances. Especially answers on a recorder or certain knocks for yes and no. And no, I have never seen a full blown ghost just to set the record straight, but I wish.

With that little or actually long background said and explained and some of my experiences, there just seems to be a side of ourselves that is intellegent that survives death of the physical body. This could be the intellegent energy or consciousness that I spoke of. Also could be the reason why when people die during surgery under anesthesia that they can recall things is because that consciousness is no longer bound to the brain or body but the minute they are "saved" can't recall anything else or actually feel sucked back and then unconsciousness again. I really don't know. I really can't say but reincarnation to me makes more sense than anything else having to do with Spirituality, Just to stay on topic. Anyway there just seems like there should be more to life than being born, living however long and then dying and ceasing to exist consciously. But then again I maybe crazy. Soemtimes even I wonder about that.

[Colleen♡Callie]

Fully agree Jess.

[Jess42]

Fully agree Jess.

Wow that take me back some Colleen. Most people don't agree with me and usually let the crazy lady go on with another rant.