For Context

[Mia and Marq]

First off I never know what a good subject title would be so I just went with close to the first thing that came into our head. OK...ok.

I was once asked why I almost always in conversations involving one or both Marq and Mia, always sound like I'm talking about someone else. For example:
"Mia told me that she wanted to go shopping this weekend." or
"I told Marq he needs to remember to shave before work".

I thought for a second about it and came up with the answer that its not because thats how we think because it isn't. We speak with each other on a constant, intimate, and near absolute level where its not like a voice in my head, just thoughts of slightly different origins. Sometimes we verbalize the thoughts but its not anything we do other then just for fun.

This brings us back to the original question. If its not for me, why do I do it? The answer is simple. Context. This situation only comes up when I'm talking to someone aware of my special circumstances. I refer to one or the other when talking to them because that gives you everything you need to know about the thought and idea. For one, if its something the other said, you know that is the case because I said "Mia told me" or "Marq liked this shirt". You also through process of elimination can derive who is talking too.

I don't do that much on here because when making responses to posts or starting new posts, generally we're in agreement and just use I or we. Where it is appropriate to clarify which a specific thought or idea comes from I will use such verbal clues.

We would be curious to hear how other bigendered people and all androgyne folk for that matter use different verbal tricks to communicate their ideas from their masculine and feminine sides.

Marq and Mia

[shawnael]

We do the same thing when communicating with each other. Sometimes I can't tell when an idea is mine or his, because the thoughts are so subtle. The only way I can tell is when some thought or feeling comes out of left field.

I usually do the talking for us, mostly because He is more brash with his speech. But when it comes to talking about us, I do refer to Him as a separate entity. I think I've always thought of Him that way, and sometimes it feels that way. We're complete opposites. Like, He wants a name, and I wanted to name Him Kevin, but He wants Keith. I looked up the names, and apparently Kevin means "gentle", while Keith means "battlefield".  We think we'll settle with Kenneth ("handsome" ). Haha, Kerry and Kenny. So basically, I talk and I refer to my otherside as "Him".

[Mia and Marq]

I meant to mention something you brought up but thought, "Heck I'll save that for another post" but in general I can't tell where a specific idea originates from sometimes because its originating from the collective standpoint of our body. When one of us is talking, its originating from the perspective of "me" and when its "me" saying it I don't ask who "me" is because I know who "me" is.

Occasionally though as you said the idea or thought is typecast to a specific sides personality and is thus determinable that way. For example, if the comment is very competitive in nature, its probably Marq, or very compassionate and intimate, probably Mia.

As far as the name thing goes, if he wants to be called Keith, he must want that name for a reason and a name seems like a trivial thing until you don't have one. If hes fine with Kenneth, thats cool. Just make sure hes not haboring hostility about it.

Do you exclusively view Kerry as your primary and Kenny is just along for the ride. He may be more brash with his speech but I can't tell you how many times brash is needed from day to day. He probably doesn't want to be treated as and thought as a seperate entity. I'm sure you wouldn't either in the same situation. This relationship you two have is not something thats going to go away so consider viewing him as your equal counterpart, the other half of the picture that completes you. Sure you're complete opposites and won't always see eye to eye but that counterview makes you well balanced.

I always tell people that I'm blessed with natural balance.
Marq and Mia

[Kendall]

We would be curious to hear how other bigendered people and all androgyne folk for that matter use different verbal tricks to communicate their ideas from their masculine and feminine sides.

I will respond since I am one of the others (ambigendered), not bigendered. Most of my communication tricks deal with when I go shopping with Jo Elaine, and I am interested in getting something at the moment I might be to shy to get for myself. I might say something like "Kendra would like that". That is sorta code for "I really want that!" She will sometimes hold something up to her and say " Soooo what do you think of this. Do you want it?".

As for my self talk I could be looking at something cool gadget the male in me would love to have then right next to it might be something the female in me might want to have. Both things I can be excited about at the same time. But no communication between the sides as you both stated, but your both interaction sounds interesting. Helps me to explain bigendered more if I ever have to.

Like, He wants a name, and I wanted to name Him Kevin, but He wants Keith. I looked up the names, and apparently Kevin means "gentle", while Keith means "battlefield".   We think we'll settle with Kenneth ("handsome"  ). Haha, Kerry and Kenny. So basically, I talk and I refer to my otherside as "Him".

Ken's a great name, and so is the intimate version Kenny. I have never gone by Kenneth, lol. Ken is my birth name, though I have adopted Kendra, Kendall, and KK. Also interesting how each side likes a different name.

[Pica Pica]

This whole bigender thing is dead perplexing. I am just me, I am called Adam, as much as I like to give myself other names. Adam is as gendered as a baby, or small child who doesn't know yet.
I play lots of liguistic games, but they are all my (Adam's) games.

Does bigender make it noisy?

[Mia and Marq]

Does bigender make it noisy?

What do you mean by make it noisy?

People are probably more inclined to be confused by a bigendered individual's situation it seems. Thats why I always invite questions from the community and from those around me when the topic is brought up. I'll be happy to answer your question once you clarify.

Marq and Mia

[Pica Pica]

Well, you said that you retroactively attribute your thoughts to marq or mia, i just wondered if the two actively converse inside, and if the do is there a central chair figure that steps in and quietens the dialogue?

[Mia and Marq]

Yes, there are active conversations inside between them, sometimes quite a bit actually. There is no central chair figure to quiet the dialogue. It is self regulated. Eventually there just isn't anything left to discuss on an issue. They understand each other enough to appreciate the other's desires, motivations, and ideas. Any chatter between them usually occurs to discuss something they don't agree entirely on. Just like in any communicative situation, if done properly, things never get out of hand.

The rest of the conversations are to discuss things going on in our life to further develop as refined a game plan as possible. This is an equal partnership that involves the cooperation of both sides to function. If no communication occured, a breakdown of balance might eventually occur. I don't see the internal chatter as being bad because I know it is for good reason, healthy growth of a relationship.

Bigendered people who are comfortable with themselves are usually pretty well adjusted because even the smallest problems are handled immediately by two minds instead of one. Imagine the potential of always having someone that understands you, is always there to talk, never leaves you, loves you absolutely, and dreams with you. Many people find the same things from someone they are deeply in love with. Mia and Marq, I could have it no other way.

Thanks for your question.

Mia and Marq

[Pica Pica]

i was interested in the mechanics of it all. It's very different to how I imagined, I am not sure I have the strength of mind(s) and character(s) to function in that way. It must have some real boons.

[Mia and Marq]

Quite.

I find after both Marq and Mia have discussed an idea, I get a very zen-like conclusion.

I've mentioned this before concerning appearance. I've been asked if I would ever consider transitioning, taking hormones, etc. The only thing that would occur from transitioning in my case would be that I would find myself in the same situation on the other side of the coin. Instead of a male body shared between a male and a female that doesn't look the part, I would have a female body shared between a female and a male that doesn't look the part. All that time and money to find myself in the same situation, thats not practical, smart, or productive. How our body looks physically is not important as long as we stay true to ourselves.

Life is a journey and we're all trying to get somewhere. No one wants to go this journey alone. Our comfort is we never will have to.

-Us

[Kendall]

When verbally communicating with other people, do you ever find Mia talking, with an actual voice change to a female voice, and almost uncontrolled (by Marq) what you say or do? I know you say that one controls most of the writing in your blog, which I assume is more Mia's turf. Or is it the other way around?

And does one or the other jump in and interrupt the other, no matter what your doing?

[Mia and Marq]

When verbally communicating with other people, do you ever find Mia talking, with an actual voice change to a female voice, and almost uncontrolled (by Marq) what you say or do?

Well yes and no. If you were paying enough attention(but who does that), I talk a lot softer when its mostly Mia saying something mainly because the more one-on-one interactions are closer and more intimate in nature. Though this change is more noticable in other situations. Like if I'm playing some sort of competitive video game, (mostly Marq's thing), I trash talk in a harsh mocking sort of fashion. Occasionally and suddenly my voice goes ultra soft and I'll say something like "I'm sorry, that was hurtful of me, I didn't mean that". Now I'm not entirely sure how my soft voice compares to a female sounding voice. I've considered recording it and playing it back for someone who is listening without any verbal cues as to whether is coming from a guy or girl and see what they think. Though I think it sounds very feminine when I'm singing certain songs. I'm a little worried about recording it though because I'm like many that don't much care for recordings of their voice.

I know you say that one controls most of the writing in your blog, which I assume is more Mia's turf. Or is it the other way around?

Mia is much more emotional and poetic even in her words and her thoughts translate pretty good into journal and blog entries. Marq states ideas maybe a little too straightfoward to write any good blog entries. Its clear there are two different styles if you look at their writings side by side.

And does one or the other jump in and interrupt the other, no matter what your doing?

Sigh. Funny you should mention that. It would be safe to say that both have complete control over the body and thus if they wanted to, could cause havoc. You might ask how do we decide who should be in control. Its the same as how we decide who speaks, selecting who can handle a situation best. The occasional practical joke does occur though.Today I was washing my hands in the restroom and the other thought it would be funny to start walking away before I was finished with the sink. I'm sure it looked funny.

As far as interruptions go though, the respect we have for each other usually prevents any interruptions except in extreme cases where the situation mandates an interruption. Those are far and few and not enough to mention specifically. Usually disagreeing with something is handled verbally or mentally instead of control hijacking.

Marq and Mia

[Intertween]

Bigendered people who are comfortable with themselves are usually pretty well adjusted because even the smallest problems are handled immediately by two minds instead of one.

This puts me closer to understanding why I don't have even one mind.

-- Sue

[shawnael]

I meant to mention something you brought up but thought, "Heck I'll save that for another post" but in general I can't tell where a specific idea originates from sometimes because its originating from the collective standpoint of our body. When one of us is talking, its originating from the perspective of "me" and when its "me" saying it I don't ask who "me" is because I know who "me" is.

Occasionally though as you said the idea or thought is typecast to a specific sides personality and is thus determinable that way. For example, if the comment is very competitive in nature, its probably Marq, or very compassionate and intimate, probably Mia.

I think I worded what I wrote funny. But, yeah, I did mean that when I think, it's in a collective sense. But then sometimes I'll think something and one of us will go "nuh-UH!"

As far as the name thing goes, if he wants to be called Keith, he must want that name for a reason and a name seems like a trivial thing until you don't have one. If hes fine with Kenneth, thats cool. Just make sure hes not haboring hostility about it.

We're pretty laid-back, and we want a name we can both agree on. Kenneth is growing on us, and he wants to add "James", which is my dad's name, because I'm already named after my mom. We originally wanted Daniel James, the name I would've had had I been born a boy, but then we realised that my nickname would've been "Danny Boy". And as a second generation Irish-American, I'd be teased to no end.

Do you exclusively view Kerry as your primary and Kenny is just along for the ride. He may be more brash with his speech but I can't tell you how many times brash is needed from day to day. He probably doesn't want to be treated as and thought as a seperate entity. I'm sure you wouldn't either in the same situation. This relationship you two have is not something thats going to go away so consider viewing him as your equal counterpart, the other half of the picture that completes you. Sure you're complete opposites and won't always see eye to eye but that counterview makes you well balanced.

I do see him as my counterpart, and we try to work together as one balanced individual. But I think you're right: I'm trying to make him go away. I've had a lot of trouble with my identity, growing up. My psychiatrist thought I was gay for the longest time. I've been called a "f*ing boy," like it was a bad thing. I've gone through periods of wondering if I was transgender or wishing I was transgender. I always wished I could make up my mind. I think I'm still uncomfortable with letting myself acknowledge him. But we're working on it, and we're getting there.

[Mia and Marq]

I'm glad to hear you're working on things. The biggest problem I notice occurs with bigendered people is people's reluctance to believe such a thing could be true. After you've seen the evidence pile up that you're not just one within, it becomes a lot easier for you to understand and accept it. Then others seeing your resolve follow suit. I feel both there and thats good enough for me.

Keep us informed of how you're progressing.

Mia and Marq

[Kendall]

Can people have more than 2 genders at the same time, 3 or more multi-genders? Or is that much more in the realm of multiple personality. Or would one say bigender is a multiple personality. Or how would it be different or similar?

[Mia and Marq]

These are some very interesting questions.
Can people have more then 2 genders at the same time, 3 or more multigenders?
Possible though less likely to be identified on a personal level. In that case where you've got more then one persona, you would probably recognize something was wrong eventually because of the change in behavior that would be exhibited from time to time. If you had one boy and one girl, you'd be able to identify for the most part which was which. If you add another boy or girl or even an androgyne persona into the mix, unless that persona opted to be distinquished from the other personas, they would just as likely be subsumed in any other matching gender personas present.

is that much more in the realm of multiple personality? Or would one say bigender is a multiple personality. Or how would it be different or similar?
The biggest difference between Dissociative Identity Disorder(Multiple Personality Disorder) or bigender is the reason for the multiple personas or personalities. Admittedly the line can seem very blurred and at the base level it really comes down to what the person experiencing it feels.

Most experts agree that Dissociative identity disorder is first and foremost a very controversial diagnosis. It is important to mention that DID is in no way related to schizophrenia. DID is probably impossible to actually prove conclusively exists though some experts would argue they've found cases that appear to confirm the existence of such a disorder. The problem lies in that there is currently no way to directly measure thought processes and so any information gained from speaking with a patient is not subjective. They could conceivably be lying or even influenced to behave a certain way just by being interviewed. Many believe it is difficult if not feasible to measure something exactly without influencing your results.

Also DID is believed to occur as a result of early childhood trauma or anxiety as well as extremely traumatic experiences as an adult. If no trauma or significant anxiety was present in the person's life, DID will not occur. Mental health experts theorize the initial split is a way for the individual to cope with those experiences in a way that allows dissociation of self to reduce the strain mentally.

That brings us to the other set of people, those who identify as bigender. This is associated closely with gender identity and much like transsexuals, they are born the way they are and not by choice, in this case with an extra spirit within. Bigender individuals may go through their life never experiencing any sort of trauma or extreme anxiety that might have caused DID. They simply live with an extra perspective within, starting to learn about themselves as early as memory allows.

Two-spirited peoples have been around for as long as there have been people. Recent terms that attempt to define us, such as transgendered or "gender dysphorics" are inadequate to describe what is first and foremost a spiritual state. Sure they are related to gender to some degree but not entirely so.

Although it certainly isn't always the case, the two are capable of not only acknowledging each other, but can work in conjunction/cooperation and in some cases even develop a deep or absolutely love for each other. In such cases, a feeling of balance and peace is present.
When it comes down to it, at the very base level, if you're ok and accepting with who you are, no amount of mental health experts or anyone for that matter can prove you wrong.

And that as they say is that.

Mia and Marq
Harmony - Balance of Opposites

[Shana A]

Two-spirited peoples have been around for as long as there have been people. Recent terms that attempt to define us, such as transgendered or "gender dysphorics" are inadequate to describe what is first and foremost a spiritual state. Sure they are related to gender to some degree but not entirely so.

I totally agree! That's why I dislike describing myself using medical terminology. My gender is truly a spiritual quest.

zythyra

[Kendall]

Very good answer.