I'm a 21 year old kissless virgin and I think it's because of my appearance

[modaroshi]

I should preface this post by saying that I'm genetically a man even though I look quite feminine.  I don't look like a man and I think for this reason I'm physically unattractive to girls.  My physical traits:

-Very little facial hair
-High pitched, squeaky female voice (cartilage never really grew during my "puberty", confirmed by docs)
-My facial skeleton never "masculinized", and as such I have a female face (no brow bone protrusion, extremely small jaw [triangle shaped face]
-Only grew a few inches during puberty, currently standing at 5'8. 
-frail bone structure, 5.9 inch wrists in circumference
-narrow shoulders and very short limbs
-a skinny fat physique... I've been going to the gym for the past 6 months and It's essentially impossible for me to gain any muscle mass. 

People in general treat me as though I'm a kid and girls don't see me as a sexually viable partner.  Girls have never been interested in me, at least not since I was in middle school.  I thought when I grew older I would become more confident and more attractive but the opposite happened and I've become an insecure and lonely individual. 

The dozen or so times I've mustered up the courage to take the initiative to express interest towards girls, they've friendzoned or rejected me -- some of them have been more than a little harsh about it.  I've come to the conclusion that it has to do with my appearance.  I look like a kid, or a boy, or a girl.

I'm considering taking testosterone and other steroids.  I think that's the best course of action but I have no idea how to go about using them in a safe manner. 

I'm also toying with the idea cosmetic surgery[jaw implants] but I'm skeptical and paranoid that something might go wrong.

[aleon515]

I am taking that you are sincere and this is not just some kind of hoax or something.
If you are genetically a guy, not sure this is really your forum. This is a forum for those of us who were born biologically female (or assigned at birth as female) but who feel mentally and spiritually that we are males. That's what transgender means.

There are all kinds of guys and I think it sounds like a lot of your problem is a lack of self confidence. Some of us would be pretty happy to be skinny 5'8". A lot of us are under 5'3". I am 5'1". I have been on T for 6 months and am usually read as male. Even though I am short, have little body hair, etc.

Many guys don't have prominent brow ridges. So you need to google head shots of men and see what they're really like.

It sounds like you would benefit from therapy. Actually some biological males can benefit from testosterone therapy, depending on what the situation is. And work outs which emphasize healthy eating habits and positive changes, keeping in mind what is actually realistic. This is not a steroid type forum, so you aren't going to get info from us how to get T illegally (it's not legal here anyway). Those of us who take T are doing so legally and not takign a bunch of other unknown, unregulated stuff.
Might not be what you wanted to hear.

Some people here do fine with the ladies (or guys if that's their thing) too. So it's a between the ear thing more than anything else.



--Jay

[Jamie D]

modaroshi, I think what you are asking is how you can become more of a man.  Is that why you put this in the female-to-male forum?

Have you considered that you aren't a "man" at all?  Your physical characteristics could point to any number of endocrinological or genetic conditions.  I'd suggest that you visit with an endo to find out what might be going on with you.

[Horizon]

I'm in that same boat, OP.  I can't gain muscle beyond my natural amount (some may say limit), I never "matured" in the same ways as the guys surrounding me, and I'm fully developed at 5'4".  Before I started hormone replacement therapy, I had a blood test taken - my testosterone came back far below the "healthy" male range.  Of course, I'm infinitely thankful for all of this.  I don't know who to pray to, but I sure as heck do it anyway!

If it really concerns you, have your testosterone levels checked, but keep in mind that quite a few girls are into boyish guys.  It's not worth changing yourself just to please others.  Be sure any changes you make are for you and only you.

[musicofthenight]

but I have no idea how to go about using them in a safe manner. 

Under medical supervision.

My working theory is that my feminine physical traits are actually the result of excess anabolic-androgenic steroids and a deficiency of corticosteroids.  High androgen levels stimulate the conversion of androgens to estrogen.  If that's what's happening, adding more androgens will not help.  You might even get breast development, lucky you.

> -Only grew a few inches during puberty, currently standing at 5'8. 

The CDC growth charts are
http://www.cdc.gov/growthcharts/data/set1clinical/cj41l021.pdf - Male
http://www.cdc.gov/growthcharts/data/set1clinical/cj41l022.pdf - Female

The pubescent growth spurt is the S-shape leading to adult height.  It starts at ~10y for females, ~13y for males.  Those extra years give boys another 6 inches of childhood height, around 5'0" to girls' 4'6".

Oh, yeah, I should point out that these are population growth curves.  An individual's will show a sharper S.

There are plenty of endocrine conditions that can monkey with this.  Klinefelter's extends the childhood growth pattern out through puberty - slow growth to tall height.  Higher hormone levels, like CAH, would put you closer to the early, short growth pattern typical of females.

Heck, if you're a typical male with puberty a little late (but not abnormally so), you could still be growing at 20.

It's worth seeing a doctor, especially if you can find one who will take you seriously.

[aleon515]

I agree there are a number of conditions that could make men look less traditionally masculine or whatever you want to say. (Or even as Jamie suggests some might mean you are actually intersex-- sharing characteristics fo each). And somethings are strictly imaginary. 5'8" is in the range of a normal male size, afaik. However, there is nothing per se physically that would make you less attractive to women as a whole. We know women are attracted to a lot of different things. Some certainly like the beefy hunky types. I think your problems might be more of confidence related to these. IF you can like yourself, doesn't matter as there will be gals that like skinny nerdy guys or whatever as @Horizon says.

But meanwhile you might get this condition checked out. Perhaps it's a good thing you found us. Once in awhile I run into a steroids group by accident. They are guys who don't think it's a bad thing to mess with a whole bunch of steroids and mix in a bit of T with that. There are all sorts of problems which they can run into from liver damage, to personality changes, to high bp. Messing around you can also inadvertently make your problem worse. T changes to estrogen if it isn't handled by the body correctly-- and oddly this is a more common problem than you might think. You can go to endocrinologist. You can look for those who might specialize in low androgen levels.

But always keep in mind that others are attracted to other things than physique.


--Jay

[Lyric]

I'm much older than you and you remind me somewhat of how I felt about myself at your age. When we're in our teens and twenties we tend strive toward physical perfection and often feel inadequate if we are not at such. Then at some point in life you start to realize you weren't ever so bad off and you're grateful for what you've got.

Some of your problem may be something that could benefit from medical attention and I would certainly look into that. But the your biggest problem isn't physical, but internal-- you've got a poor sense of self esteem. I'm practically certain that is why you don't feel you are attracting women's interest. An androgynous appearance may turn off some women, but not all-- probably not even most. However lack of self confidence will do that. Hardly any woman wants to date a guy who's down on himself.

~ Lyric ~

[Jess42]

If you think something is physically wrong, you really should see a doctor about it.

As for the girl thing though, what matters is between your ears and how you see yourself. Looks my get you noticed but self confidence and attitude are way more important. What I look for in a guy is pretty much what other women look for and that is self confidence, a good strong attitude and inner strength. Not so much how big their muscles are or what they look like. I would rather have a guy that makes me laugh than one that looks in a mirror and fusses with his hair more than I do. Hang in there and work on your self esteem and self confidence and don't get discouraged because if one don't like you there are twenty more that will.

[randomdude5]

I also have to agree that it had nothing to do with appearance and everything to do with confidence. I am pretty skinny, and a bit shorter than you, and yet I have had plenty of girls show interest.   Haha. So yeah mate, its all about confidence.

Though, if you think you might actually have a condition causing this, you should see your physician about it.