Retransition Detransition Forum

[Jamie D]

Grace, there is nothing "wrong" with you!  You are a human being with a personality, a gender identity, and natural right to be yourself.  I am sorry that social expectations served to stunt your growth.  It happened to me too.  Slowly, but surely, I am feeling better about myself, thanks to people like you. 

Jamie

[Ms Grace]

Thanks Jamie. Yes, fortunately I realise that now but it took me a long, long time to come to terms with it. Each step in the journey, each step in the journey...

[Ms Grace]

I'd strongly recommend never stopping HRT cold and always have medical supervision. I stopped cold first time around and was an utter mess for over two weeks, digestive problems, emotional upheaval and lactation. None of it was pretty! There may have been other effects too, a wonder I didn't accidentally kill myself. My body never regained the same degree if body hair thickness, what glandular development I had breast wise never went away, areas like my hips remained feminised. Unfortunately my hair started thinning.

[retransition]

Yes we review them!

Give me an argument why it doesn't fit under Non-transitioning and I'll consider it. We have space limitations that is the reason for not just doing it.

Cindy

Hi Cindy - thanks so much for doing this. I wasn't trying to be snarky - I was just wondering if anyone actually saw my request.  I know you are all volunteers and your time is limited sometimes - thanks for getting to this.

If you feel it works best under the non-transitioning board I respect that.  As a few other people on this thread have noted, while for some there might be some shared issues between non-transitioners and detransitioners/retransitioners there are many issues that are really unique to detransitioners/retransitioners.  Someone on this thread commented that a detransition/retransition is a "temporary state".  That would be great but I have a feeling that I will be "retransitioning" (my prefered term) the rest of my life to some degree.  Although I love the idea of there being a finite destination (and I can see why the commenter would assume that there is one) I am not expecting such a thing.

There are many different things that lead a person to consider a detransition/retransition.  Social pressures, religious beliefs, family and maybe a self-identity that comes back to embracing one's natal sex.  For most it is probably some combination of some of these issues, although there may be some for whom only one of the above (or something else altogether) is the primary motivator.

In my case, although I have had some gender confusion in the past, I do not identify at all as a female even though physically I am post-op MTF.  I know that other people who go back to their birth gender for their public identity, inside they still identify as the opposite gender. That is a going to make a pretty big difference in what issues these two types are going to be concerned with in terms of making sense of their identity.  Still, there are areas regarding how to deal with "practical" matters that are common to both types: The bathroom thing all over again, problems "passing", how to feel confidence in appearance and gender expression, how to reintegrate into a gender, how to advocate for those who choose or are interested in detransition/retransition in a way that is non-harmful towards other people's identities  ... I could go on and on.  Again, from my perspective this is not a natural fit under "non-transitioning" but for now I am happy to just see it living somewhere here at Susans.  I commend your doing this and I am sincerely thankful.
I will try to spend more time here (I actually have been around again recently but only in private messaging.)  I am also planning on doing a online powerpoint presentation (ideally in next day or two) of things that I think would be helpful for people to understand about detransition/retransition and the areas where I think bringing this subject into the light a little bit more would be very helpful to some.  I will share a link when I do it in the new forum.
Best,
Joel

[ThePhoenix]

I have to admit that I am getting rather unsettled by some of the posts showing up since the "detransition" heading was added to this forum and this topic was moved here.  We have one person asking for advice on "how to detransition" because (the persons number 1 reason), they just feel too lazy to go forward.  We have other pronouncements that retransitioning is just a temporary pause or step back for a person who really will go forward with transition in the future.  I'm reading this and I'm not saying anything, but I am cringing and it is bothering me.  In part because I wonder whether some of these things are serious or are an attempt to make light of retransition experiences.  I also wonder whether people seriously equate being "lazy" with the experience of a person who goes through all the difficulties of one transition and then finds themselves needing to do it again.

Since day one on this site, I have been fairly clear in saying that I don't find transman/transwoman dichotomies to be adequate descriptions of me and there have been at least a couple of threads in which I have come right out and told people that there are some things about myself that I do not wish to discuss.  So it could be that I am a little bit oversensitive to all of this because the whole topic of retransitioning hits a little too close to home and risks "outing" me about certain of my own issues that I have learned not to discuss with trans* people.  But no matter how you slice it, although I do agree with retransition that is important to discuss these issues, and the fact of discussing them at all is a step forward, I also find myself feeling ill at ease about how this is starting out and fearful that this may not go in a positive direction.

[Cindy]

I have to admit that I am getting rather unsettled by some of the posts showing up since the "detransition" heading was added to this forum and this topic was moved here.  We have one person asking for advice on "how to detransition" because (the persons number 1 reason), they just feel too lazy to go forward.  We have other pronouncements that retransitioning is just a temporary pause or step back for a person who really will go forward with transition in the future.  I'm reading this and I'm not saying anything, but I am cringing and it is bothering me.  In part because I wonder whether some of these things are serious or are an attempt to make light of retransition experiences.  I also wonder whether people seriously equate being "lazy" with the experience of a person who goes through all the difficulties of one transition and then finds themselves needing to do it again.

Since day one on this site, I have been fairly clear in saying that I don't find transman/transwoman dichotomies to be adequate descriptions of me and there have been at least a couple of threads in which I have come right out and told people that there are some things about myself that I do not wish to discuss.  So it could be that I am a little bit oversensitive to all of this because the whole topic of retransitioning hits a little too close to home and risks "outing" me about certain of my own issues that I have learned not to discuss with trans* people.  But no matter how you slice it, although I do agree with retransition that is important to discuss these issues, and the fact of discussing them at all is a step forward, I also find myself feeling ill at ease about how this is starting out and fearful that this may not go in a positive direction.

An interesting point.

But ultimately we are a support site. There are many posts I do not agree with and I often comment on my point of view in them.

But in reality we are all different, we walk different paths, no ones opinion is right or wrong, they are a reflection of our souls.

As long as the rules that I work under are not infringed then any opinion is valid.

[bingunginter]

Thanks for having this subforum. I always thought that this forum is the conservative type.

[ThePhoenix]

An interesting point.

But ultimately we are a support site. There are many posts I do not agree with and I often comment on my point of view in them.

But in reality we are all different, we walk different paths, no ones opinion is right or wrong, they are a reflection of our souls.

As long as the rules that I work under are not infringed then any opinion is valid.

I agree wholeheartedly with most of this.  No one support site can meet all needs.  But at the same time, I spend a lot of time worrying about "what is support?"  Clearly, some opinions are viewed by the administration of this site as being right or wrong.  I've been informed that posting anything by Cathy Brennan is not allowed.  And transphobic opinions are not welcome.  That's not a criticism.  Allowing those things (especially the transphobic junk) would ruin the ability to get support here and thereby undermine the whole purpose of this site. 

But if we're going to open up discussion about retransition here, then it might also be worth giving some thought to what sorts of things would ruin the ability of people for whom the topic is relevant to get support that they need.  There are some things about this topic that are very similar to most other trans* people.  But others that are different.  One difference lies in the fact that just as trans* people are often misunderstood and stigmatized in the larger world, so too are retransitioners misunderstood and stigmatized by the trans* community.  Retransitioners can face a lot of hostility.

All of this is said with the full understanding that, as already noted, I may be over sensitive to this because it hits too close to home on some of my personal issues that I do not feel comfortable sharing in this forum and therefore do not want to get "outed" about.

The only other thing I disagree with is that when I disagree with a post, I usually don't say anything at all.   But I only mention that in the spirit of smiling.  It is relevant to nothing.

[retransition]

But no matter how you slice it, although I do agree with retransition that is important to discuss these issues, and the fact of discussing them at all is a step forward, I also find myself feeling ill at ease about how this is starting out and fearful that this may not go in a positive direction.

I think your post did a good job of explaining a lot of the nuances of this issue and the difficulties in talking about it because of the varied emotional reactions (and, for some a lack of understanding) of this subject. I guess another reason why this topic would be better served with its own forum is that it probably should have some sort of stated "trigger" warning.  Another possibility would be to establish some ground rules for appropriate topics for conversation. Some detransitioners go on to become very angry with the trans movement and seek to eliminate it.  In full disclosure, I too have become skeptical of some of the more common beliefs about gender shared by many within the trans community.  I do not believe your forums would be an appropriate venue to talk about this stuff.  But I do think it is helpful to have a place where people can see that there isn't always a "final destination" and be able to talk about options on what a retransition could actually look like.  And lastly, I have to say that I am thankful to this site for reminding me of how many really wonderful people are part of the trans community. Although I push back against what I consider to be the closed mindedness of some of the "louder" voices in the general trans community when I come to these forums I find people who have the same goals as myself - to be authentic for themselves, to live in a way that is supportive of others and, finally, to be respectful to others and mindful that we all have our own "truths".

[ThePhoenix]

Retransition, your posts seem to me to be consistently thoughtful and reasonable.  I agree with everything you said above, especially the idea of a trigger warning. 

I am curious about the skepticisms you have developed.  I too have developed some, and I wonder whether ours are similar.  But I also think that the trans* community has come a long way in its thinking since the 1990s and it is still rapidly evolving.  And those with what one might call non-standard trans* identities are an important part of that evolution.  Although this forum may not be the appropriate forum for those thoughts, I hope that you will find a forum that you consider appropriate so that those thoughts can be added to the conversation,

[bingunginter]

Many topics about detransition/retransition will be uncomfortable. If that not allowed to talked then what is the point? I need support as well.

[retransition]

Retransition, your posts seem to me to be consistently thoughtful and reasonable.  I agree with everything you said above, especially the idea of a trigger warning. 

I am curious about the skepticisms you have developed.  I too have developed some, and I wonder whether ours are similar.  But I also think that the trans* community has come a long way in its thinking since the 1990s and it is still rapidly evolving.  And those with what one might call non-standard trans* identities are an important part of that evolution.  Although this forum may not be the appropriate forum for those thoughts, I hope that you will find a forum that you consider appropriate so that those thoughts can be added to the conversation,

I agree that the trans community has evolved enough that we are ready to talk about this stuff. You are welcome to message me if you want.  I have been blogging about my feelings on my site retransition.org and have connected with others who have similar feelings through there.  As far as my skepticism - your question prompted me to write a long reply that I ultimately decided was not appropriate for Susan's. I will be posting it on my site today or tomorrow.

[retransition]

Many topics about detransition/retransition will be uncomfortable. If that not allowed to talked then what is the point? I need support as well.

What is the point? Maybe just to create a meeting place where people who are curious about this can find others who are as well.  Or as a vehicle to share resources or to create new resources if we need to. And just to let people know that is ok to feel this way and promote some understanding. I think honest conversations have to happen, but those can be done through private messages or maybe somewhere else. 

I think there is still plenty of relatively non-controversial stuff that can be discussed openly.  I could be wrong.

[bingunginter]

My thought when I saw this new subforum, my reaction was happy and suprised. I thought this forum has become more open minded. Finally I can share my non-standard trans experience and trouble, but alas no I'm hoping too much.
Discussion through private message can be done but can't beat having hundreds (thousand?) people in this community to bring input and support. Truth is there a not much other trans forums to discuss it, likely it will be shut down there as well. Those 'controversial' stuff is what largely define my live, its hard to effectively discuss stuff if the majority of it can not be talked. While I always keep searching for a place for me, I still have hopes for this community.

[retransition]

Well I am just a visitor here too so I can't tell you what or what not to post.  I agree with everything you have said. There are moderators here - there is nothing stopping you from posting what you want and helping establish what the boundaries are of what we can and can't talk about here.

[bingunginter]

retransitioner, thanks for responding to my trouble. I already sent a message to the mod & admin, hopefully the situation will be improved.

[retransition]

Good to hear bingunginter. I think we are getting closer to the point where conversations like the ones I know you need to have will be more accepted. How we all get to that point is probably going to be rocky at times. I applaud Susan's for taking this initial step which many trans online communities are still too afraid to touch. 

[ThePhoenix]

I agree that the trans community has evolved enough that we are ready to talk about this stuff. You are welcome to message me if you want.  I have been blogging about my feelings on my site retransition.org and have connected with others who have similar feelings through there.  As far as my skepticism - your question prompted me to write a long reply that I ultimately decided was not appropriate for Susan's. I will be posting it on my site today or tomorrow.

If you are the person behind retransition.org, then we have talked before.  I wrote a comment about my org being inclusive of retransitioners and you emailed me to ask about it.  It's a small world. 

Anyway, I read your post.  Since you don't want to discuss it here, I will only say that I agree with it in part and disagree in part.  I might take you up on the opportunity to message you here.  But I also feel that it is unfortunate that we cannot have that discussion in this forum.  I do not blame you for being reluctant to have it.  There are some people who just are not ready to hear certain things.  There are things I pull my punches on too.  There is one particular thread I wish I had never started on this site and I'd probably delete my original post in it if I thought I could get away without making the mods mad at me.  But I also feel like it's important to state challenging ideas, and I do it regardless of whether it might earn me a smite.  It's a true balancing act and hard to know where the balance lies. 

[retransition]

I would have preferred to have posted my response here in this forum, I just worry about pushing the envelope too far too fast.  I would love to hear your thoughts about what you agreed with and what you disagreed with.  Let me do this - let me send my post to an admin and see if I can repost it here (or post some of it here.)  It would help me to have more of a dialogue about this stuff.  My views are not set in stone and I am still figuring a lot of stuff out.

[retransition]

ThePhoenix - I am going to post my response to your earlier question about why I am "skeptical" about some aspects of the traditional trans "talking points" as I originally intended, in this forum. It will follow this post.  A moderator reviewed has it and gave me the greenlight.  I also let them know that I understand if they re-evaluate their decision.  I appreciate Susan's.org being willing to try this out.

Sorry I haven't followed up on my earlier email - I had some personal issues that sidetracked me and I found myself taking an unanticipated "break" from blogging and checking my blog related email account. I am trying to catch up. Tonight I did get a chance to start reading your posts here and appreciate your honesty and willingness to publicly share some of your soul searching.  I know it can be difficult and sometimes being so honest puts one in a particularly vulnerable position. Thank you for being brave and thank you for not asking for your thread to be removed.