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Could testosterone harm a biological kid in the womb?

Started by Reese, September 15, 2013, 04:49:54 PM

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Reese

I'm pre-T and pre-op but my BF and I eventually are going to get married and want a biological kid.  Adoption is still an option, but we at least want one biological kid.  It won't be for years, and I will probably be starting my transition in 9-12 months.  Hopefully sooner.  We probably won't have a kid until around 2017 or 2018, so that'd be about 3 or 4 years on T.

I am willing to endure 9 months of a pregnancy. I mean, it's only 9 months.  But a c-section is a must...

Anyways I was wondering if anyone here has answers to these questions.  I can't find the answers anywhere.

1) Will testosterone make me infertile?
2) Should I freeze some eggs before starting testosterone?
3) Can I stay on testosterone while I'm pregnant, or will that harm the kid?
4) Will prior testosterone use harm the kid?
5) Since I'd already have my chest surgery, will the pregnancy cause breasts to re-form?

Hopefully by the time I have a kid, c-sections won't be as risky.  I always thought I absolutely could not carry a kid, but then I realized the only part that was turning me off was the birth part... I get that it might be messy at points but I think it's worth it for a kid.  After all, it's only 9 months of my life.
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CursedFireDean

I don't know answers to these all for SURE so I'll try to answer them

1. T makes some guys infertile, but not all. It's not a risk I would take if I for sure wanted kids.
2. Because of the above, I'd say you might want to consider it.
3. I do not know for sure, but I believe it's not good for the kid.
4. Not to my knowledge
5. I don't THINK it will, BUT since women's breast grow bigger during pregnancy it might be possible. I don't think they'd get nearly as big as before (unless you were really small), but they may come back a little.





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Exus

Quote from: Reese on September 15, 2013, 04:49:54 PM
I'm pre-T and pre-op but my BF and I eventually are going to get married and want a biological kid.  Adoption is still an option, but we at least want one biological kid.  It won't be for years, and I will probably be starting my transition in 9-12 months.  Hopefully sooner.  We probably won't have a kid until around 2017 or 2018, so that'd be about 3 or 4 years on T.

I am willing to endure 9 months of a pregnancy. I mean, it's only 9 months.  But a c-section is a must...

Anyways I was wondering if anyone here has answers to these questions.  I can't find the answers anywhere.

1) Will testosterone make me infertile?
2) Should I freeze some eggs before starting testosterone?
3) Can I stay on testosterone while I'm pregnant, or will that harm the kid?
4) Will prior testosterone use harm the kid?
5) Since I'd already have my chest surgery, will the pregnancy cause breasts to re-form?

Hopefully by the time I have a kid, c-sections won't be as risky.  I always thought I absolutely could not carry a kid, but then I realized the only part that was turning me off was the birth part... I get that it might be messy at points but I think it's worth it for a kid.  After all, it's only 9 months of my life.

I don't know the answer to this but if you go through it, I applaud you. I personally wouldn't do it but it is what it is.
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Mr.X

I am no doctor or anything close to being a doctor, but I may know a few answers.

1. It should. But it could take a very long while. T does not work like the pill, and is not foolproof. It could take months before you are infertile.
2. Yes. If you have the money and do not mind taking a lot of female hormones to produce those eggs for freezing, then you should certainly do so.
3. A big no no. Testosterone should not harm a male baby, but a female baby could develop serious issues due to the overload of T.
4. I am not sure if T is transferred via milk. It would be worth checking this with a doctor.
5. No clue here.

Now some questions for you. Why is it so important to spread your own genes? If you already consider adoption, please go for that option. It would give abandoned kids a new home. The world is already overpopulated as it is, so creating your own is just not needed. But that's just my five or six cents.
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Northern Jane

Exposure of a female fetus to high levels of testosterone can (WILL!) cause masculinization of the genitalia in the first trimester and may well cause male-type brain pattern development in the last half of pregnancy. The risk is extremely high and I doubt any doctor anywhere would be comfortable with that situation. I don't know what effect testosterone would have on a male fetus (if any).

That would be dangerous territory!
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mangoslayer

Quote from: Northern Jane on September 15, 2013, 05:29:04 PM
Exposure of a female fetus to high levels of testosterone can (WILL!) cause masculinization of the genitalia in the first trimester and may well cause male-type brain pattern development in the last half of pregnancy. The risk is extremely high and I doubt any doctor anywhere would be comfortable with that situation. I don't know what effect testosterone would have on a male fetus (if any).

That would be dangerous territory!
What they said. And I've read about a connection between autism and high T levels in the womb. So no matter whether the fetus is male or female, T can be very dangerous while pregnant. If you are willing to suffer through 9 months of pregnancy, you should be able to suffer through 9 months without T.
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Jack_M

You'd have to come off T to get pregnant.  Although T doesn't make you completely unable to get pregnant after a good amount of time on T you'd have to come off it to get that process working again, assuming it would work again (not guaranteed).  And you wouldn't want to try getting pregnant while on T because it would harm the fetus right from the get go (and after 3-4 years, it's unlikely you would get pregnant while on T, though not impossible). So you'd have to come off T for a bit to get T out of your system and back down to female levels, then try and try in hopes that you will actually get pregnant, and only then do you get to a more known time of "only 9 months" on top of however long it took to get to the pregnancy stage.

You'd look like a pregnant man but be on more female hormones than you've ever been your whole life.  Anyone with body dysphoria, when combining that with heightened emotions from increased female hormones, it's going to be an extremely tough time.  I'd say you'd be looking at 12 months but with a good chance of more without T. 

Also 3-4 years on T, you'd normally be looking to have had a hysto by that point.  There's no firm evidence that it's 100% necessary but it is possible for higher potential of issues in this area when on T.  Depending on where you live, it may mean you have to remain with female identity/birth certificate during all this time. 

With regards to C section, yeah, you can plan ahead and so on but there's plenty of occasions where C section is planned and then it doesn't quite go that way and there's not enough time.  So even if you plan for it, you'd also have to accept that problems can happen and you might not have a choice in the matter.  Following pregnancy it's not definite that the skin will tighten up again in the gut.  Some end up with cellulite for life.  Also, there's more risks to the baby delivering by elective C section compared to natural.

For freezing eggs you can be talking up to $30,000 per egg!  If you have that kinda of money, go ahead but it's absolutely not cheap!

As for chest - you put on weight when caring for a baby and would go back to female fat distribution which means your chest may grow a little.  But they wouldn't swell because that's all about breast tissue and you'd have very little of that left after surgery.  Your hips and butt, however, would gain fat again and probably quite a fair bit which will be hard to shift.  You will also likely gain subcutaneous fat in your skin again and that may make your features less masculine, i.e. chubbier, rounder cheeks.

Also worth noting that any muscle you gained on T, you'd likely lose a lot of it in the same way MTFs lose muscle mass when they start HRT.

You're free to do whatever you like.  Personally, I can't understand why any man would want to get pregnant, because only female bodies (what you chemically go back to if you stop T) can get pregnant, and at that point, in terms of hormones, it's like female times a million!  Basically you have to ask yourself if you're dysphoric enough that you want a male body, are you strong enough to be more female than you've ever been for a year+? Is your particular gene pool that amazing that you personally have to be a part of the baby?  Plenty of folks here can absolutely state that blood doesn't make a strong family.  There's many of us who have supportive parents but a lot of us who have families that don't stand by them or support us.  You and your BF are essentially a gay couple right now, any other non-trans gay couple would have to adopt or use a surrogate.  Do you need to carry the child yourself in order to have a family? 

Also, as someone who was adopted to a family with kids who were the "real" kids, I'd advise against having one "real" kid and others adopted tbh.  I use that terminology because that's what siblings will use in fights.  No matter how great you think you'll be as parents, adopted kids are likely to forever feel themselves secondary.  Whenever something doesn't go their way they're going to jump right to it being because they're not your real kid.  I've been there and I know a few other adopted kids who have felt the same way and rebelled far more strongly than kids who were adopted to families where it was just adopted kids, or just them.  Don't get me wrong, it's better to be adopted than not, but if there was a choice between a family with no, or only adopted kids VS a family with a biological kid already, the first is far preferable in terms of environment and the child feeling better accepted as one of their own.
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musicofthenight

Answers I'm pretty sure on.

3) Can I stay on testosterone while I'm pregnant, or will that harm the kid?
Absolutely not, it'd make you miscarry.

5) Since I'd already have my chest surgery, will the pregnancy cause breasts to re-form?
Unlikely.  Your breast tissue is out now, there's little or nothing to start from.  (This doesn't affect your fertility, just your ability to nurse.)


The harder ones.

> 4) Will prior testosterone use harm the kid?
If you regain fertility and a healthy female body composition, I can't see why not.  I'm not a doctor, though.

> 1) Will testosterone make me infertile?
I don't know if this has been studied.  I'm pretty sure it hasn't.  Permanent transition is, well, permanent.  And the assumption is that sterility goes with it.

> 2) Should I freeze some eggs before starting testosterone?
If you're planning on being sterile and having a surrogate, absolutely.  Otherwise the eggs aren't the problem.  Because we're a mammalian species.

Little side trip into mammalogy.

With a few exceptions, mammals don't lay eggs.  This adaptation means a lot less yolk, which means a much smaller down-payment of nutrients is required to reproduce.  A chicken egg, 200 Cal, probably costs 500-1000 Cal to produce; that's a lot of food for a five to eight pound animal and the fact that they'll lay so many sterile eggs is pretty darn freaky.  (Prehistoric genetic engineering, actually.)

Instead mammalian embryos literally parasitize their mothers.  (Nobody get too freaked out, please, that's how each of you got your start.)  Works great when food is abundant and living is easy, but if not "mother-fetal competition" takes place.  Biologically speaking, this is where mammals really shine, with all kinds of weird adaptations like delayed implantation and embryonic resorption and such.

Well, our species has a long lifecycle, around 15-18 years from conception to sexual maturity and that means just reaching adulthood is a pretty impressive accomplishment.  (Remember how common childhood diseases used to be.  And you've probably never heard that, under the best conditions, about half of fertilized zygotes fail to implant.)  And that means, from a biological-fitness standpoint, maternal  health is really important to reproductive success.  After all, if a pregnancy kills you, no more kids.

So, it doesn't take much provocation to cause a miscarriage, especially in a long-lived slow-reproducing species.  Again, under ideal circumstances, the human miscarriage rate is somewhere in ballpark of 20%-30% of implantations.  (Bet you didn't hear that one in sex ed.)  Once you start monkeying with maternal hormones, that's not ideal circumstances.

I'm just an armchair doctor, but my guesses are:

- Freeze eggs for surrogates, not for yourself.  Ovulating and conceiving are much more robust than carrying to full term.
- Probably best to get your reproduction done before HRT.  Sorry.
What do you care what other people think? ~Arlene Feynman
trans-tom / androgyne / changes profile just for fun


he... -or- she... -or (hard mode)- yo/em/er/ers
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Taka

some women feel horrible during pregnancy, get all kinds of annoying problems with their skin hair, moods etc. some gain weight. but others don't. i didn't even put on ten pounds, and i was never more beautiful than when i was pregnant. i also know women who've lost weight during pregnancy.

every pregnancy and childbirth is different, even for the same woman. there's no way of predicting how it will be for you. there's also a chance of miscarriage, which i'm sure feels horrible whether it's a man or woman who loses the child. i know a woman who lost three children before giving birth to a healthy one.

giving birth the normal way is better for the body (unless there are complications). you'll recover faster, it's generally safer for mother and child. you'll get the stretch marks anyway, so you'd just have one ugly scar less. you could be lucky and have it last for just a few hours, i was lucky that way. it's also really nice to be able to see the child the moment after it's out, and know it's yours and that you'll recognize it anywhere any time.

for me, the hormones did worse things to my mood and temper after childbirth than during pregnancy. i was perfectly fine with being a woman during pregnancy, the hormones levels were stable, no cyclic swings in the levels. i was much happier than on birth control. was a serious down after, and even worse when my cycle returned. that's when i suddenly had had enough of being woman. i'd do pregnancy and childbirth again if i could be a father afterwards. i don't find this likely to happen, so thus far, i'm not planning on doing that. if i manage to get on t before getting the perfect boyfriend or girlfriend, it won't happen again.

testosterone will do a lot to your body, but when your hormone levels are normal for a female, i don't think there would be anything wrong about getting pregnant. if you're willing to take the risk. you could find yourself off t for much longer than a year while trying to get pregnant, maybe experiencing a miscarriage, will you give up or try again? i respect those who try, and those who make it, but have the same amount of respect for people who decide to adopt instead.
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randomroads

I'm assuming that everyone who shares your bloodline is free of diseases? The planet is already overrun with unwanted children. We should be focusing on taking care of what we already have instead of producing more to negatively impact the growing problem.
I believe in invisible pink unicorns

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Natkat

Quote from: Reese on September 15, 2013, 04:49:54 PM

1) Will testosterone make me infertile?
yes many become semi-infertile or what to say, so you not very likely to be able to have kids for the moment your on T, some also become permenent infertile by homones, I know 1 transguy who wanted kids but after taking homones for a short while he where told he had got all infertile.
2) Should I freeze some eggs before starting testosterone?
if you have the money and live in a country who is okay with it
3) Can I stay on testosterone while I'm pregnant, or will that harm the kid?
no you should get off T while your pregnant
4) Will prior testosterone use harm the kid?
I dont think theres enough evidence whenever its harmfull or not, from the kids who been born from transparrent they have been pretty normal.
5) Since I'd already have my chest surgery, will the pregnancy cause breasts to re-form?
it can happent that they may change some but how much I dont know.
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kaiju

Quote from: Reese on September 15, 2013, 04:49:54 PM

1) Will testosterone make me infertile?

It depends on you individually. One person I know in real life has had success returning to a normal female fertility cycle, but granted, she* was off of T for years before her body was able to safely carry a child. On the flipside, a guy I know went off of T long term for health reasons, and it's been about four years and he's still infertile. Taking testosterone is a gamble, and if you really, really want biological children/want to carry a child, you should consider putting off HRT.

2) Should I freeze some eggs before starting testosterone?

Should you? It's up to you in the end. Freezing eggs is an expensive and difficult process, to say the least. Some people are satisfied with the investment, while others never use the eggs or have success with them. Like taking testosterone, it's a gamble. If you are dead set on biological children AND taking testosterone sooner rather than later, then do it. Talk to people who have had their eggs banked about the process. Their experiences are valuable, seriously.

3) Can I stay on testosterone while I'm pregnant, or will that harm the kid?

I would not recommend it. There is not enough research to dictate exactly what will happen should you choose to continue HRT while carrying a fetus. Your body will fight the testosterone more than usual while you are pregnant, and in addition to potential hard caused to the child, you could overwhelm your own body.

4) Will prior testosterone use harm the kid?

Again, I cannot give a definitive answer. The person I know who got pregnant after previously taken testosterone only tried for pregnancy years after stopping and following a lot of careful monitoring of her hormone levels. Her child turned out okay, as far as I know, though it was born prematurely. No other issues have been noted, but to be fair, she waited a long time following stopping T to even entertain the idea of pregnancy. These are things you must take into consideration before carrying a child. Are you prepared for the possibility of your kid being born premature or with an intersex condition? Or anything else? Ask yourself these questions, and speak to your partner, too. You both need to be prepared for the worst and have a plan in place should - hopefully not - things go sour.

5) Since I'd already have my chest surgery, will the pregnancy cause breasts to re-form?

No. You may experience swelling due to feminizing hormones, and should your milk ducts(or part of them) still be in your chest, you may experience, uh....Blockage. Considering the type of surgery you had, if your nipples were resized/cut and reattached, blockage is a very real issue you should discuss with your doctor.

*She was someone who detransitioned, hence the pronouns.
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insideontheoutside

I wouldn't advice it. My mom had naturally high T (PCOS) when pregnant with me and I definitely didn't turn out "normal". And freezing eggs costs a ton of money. Use of Testosterone is definitely going to effect your inner-workings. As female-bodied (who aren't on T) people age the production of/viability of/health of eggs also declines. Don't know how old you are or when you were expecting to try to pull this off but that's another something to consider. Even without T it can be harder to get pregnant as you age.
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