Brains of trans individuals

[RavenMoon]

Btw, you have a cute nose.

Thanks, it was but it's gotten bigger lol But I still pretty much look the same. People think I'm in my late 40s, and that makes me happy.

What the heck, this is me currently.



I'm thankful I have 99% of my hair, but I wish I didn't have chicken lips. lol

[Lexi Belle]

Thanks, it was but it's gotten bigger lol But I still pretty much look the same. People think I'm in my late 40s, and that makes me happy.

What the heck, this is me currently.



I'm thankful I have 99% of my hair, but I wish I didn't have chicken lips. lol

Honestly, those can look cute on a girl.  It's deemed a "masculine" feature but I've seen a few girls with super thin lips who looked to die for.

Btw, how far are you on HRT?  I hear HRT can really change how your nose looks with all the soft tissue changes.

I personally hate my nose so much, I've broken it 5 times!

[RavenMoon]

Honestly, those can look cute on a girl.  It's deemed a "masculine" feature but I've seen a few girls with super thin lips who looked to die for.

Btw, how far are you on HRT?  I hear HRT can really change how your nose looks with all the soft tissue changes.

I personally hate my nose so much, I've broken it 5 times!

Oh you are making me feel great today! Thank you!   

My nose was broken twice. You can see it was wider when I was younger. It's also slightly crooked, but the last time straightened it out a bit.    (blame PMS for both times)

I'm not on HRT yet. I'm hoping to start it soon. I'm at the "I just made the decision to transition phase". I got divorced last year, and since then have been on the fence about it, but I'm 200% sure now. I've picked out a gender therapist I will be seeing shortly. She even has two adult trans children.

I'm real curious what HRT is going to do at my age. I sure hope it does make some facial changes. I am going to start saving up for some FFS, but the less I have to do the better ($$$ I don't have).  In the mean time I'm getting myself fit (have some extra pounds to get rid of) and I'm exploring either laser or electrolysis for my facial hair (I have a fairly heavy beard).

[Lexi Belle]

Oh you are making me feel great today! Thank you!   

My nose was broken twice. You can see it was wider when I was younger. It's also slightly crooked, but the last time straightened it out a bit.    (blame PMS for both times)

I'm not on HRT yet. I'm hoping to start it soon. I'm at the "I just made the decision to transition phase". I got divorced last year, and since then have been on the fence about it, but I'm 200% sure now. I've picked out a gender therapist I will be seeing shortly. She even has two adult trans children.

I'm real curious what HRT is going to do at my age. I sure hope it does make some facial changes. I am going to start saving up for some FFS, but the less I have to do the better ($$$ I don't have).  In the mean time I'm getting myself fit (have some extra pounds to get rid of) and I'm exploring either laser or electrolysis for my facial hair (I have a fairly heavy beard).

I mean, you haven't aged that badly at all.  I'm sure you'll come out perfectly fine, just get your brows tweezed, grow out your hair and you can rock it fine.  HRT will just make it better!  You should do some research though, I spend a couple years off and on researching these things like what the certain meds do, how to diet properly before and during it.  There's a lot to consider that can potentially enhance how HRT will treat you.  For instance what you do, losing weight now then gaining it during HRT will work amazingly well for you.

[KabitTarah]

No, it actually makes it a lot freakin' harder. You don't know if you're depressed because of dysphoria, or if you experience them at the same time but separately, and when you've come out and started transitioning you wonder why you still aren't happy and maybe you were never TG at all.

Yes, I don't mean to sound insensitive about depression issues. Sorry!! ♥

[RavenMoon]

I mean, you haven't aged that badly at all.  I'm sure you'll come out perfectly fine, just get your brows tweezed, grow out your hair and you can rock it fine.  HRT will just make it better!  You should do some research though, I spend a couple years off and on researching these things like what the certain meds do, how to diet properly before and during it.  There's a lot to consider that can potentially enhance how HRT will treat you.  For instance what you do, losing weight now then gaining it during HRT will work amazingly well for you.

Thanks again. I have aged well... that's partly genetics, plus I stay out of the sun and I don't smoke. I have good days and bad days. I have a little droop in my face which I'd like to take care of.

I just cut my hair... it grows like a weed. It also gets very bushy. I was pretty long before I cut it. Took me about a year to grow out. It was a bit past my shoulders. I'll start growing it again when I start HRT.

Yeah so right now I'm losing weight, I walk over a mile a day, and might start running. I'm a pescatarian vegetarian. I stopped snacking and eating sweets (I used to love ice cream!).

One of my past objections to making the transition was I wasn't crazy about getting older (yes I'm vain), and between being out of work and getting divorced (lots of stress) I wasn't taking care of myself. So I figured if I hated being a middle aged guy, why would I want to be a middle aged woman? I'd be even more miserable! But I'm past that now and I feel and look a lot better than I did this time last year. Plus everyone tells me how E makes you look younger... so Yay!



Thanks again for the kind words of encouragement. This halloween I'm dressing in a Japanese school girl sailor uniform. I haven't done that in public in about 28 years.  One of the bands I'm in (a classic rock cover band) always plays at a certain club where they have a costume party. No one in the band knows what I'm wearing, so it should be a hoot! I'm looking forward to the looks on their faces. My son said I look like a librarian with the long black wig on and my glasses. lol I'm getting by brows threaded next week. I have enough to work with where they should be able to get a nice high arch.

[Lexi Belle]

Thanks again. I have aged well... that's partly genetics, plus I stay out of the sun and I don't smoke. I have good days and bad days. I have a little droop in my face which I'd like to take care of.

I just cut my hair... it grows like a weed. It also gets very bushy. I was pretty long before I cut it. Took me about a year to grow out. It was a bit past my shoulders. I'll start growing it again when I start HRT.

Yeah so right now I'm losing weight, I walk over a mile a day, and might start running. I'm a pescatarian vegetarian. I stopped snacking and eating sweets (I used to love ice cream!).

One of my past objections to making the transition was I wasn't crazy about getting older (yes I'm vain), and between being out of work and getting divorced (lots of stress) I wasn't taking care of myself. So I figured if I hated being a middle aged guy, why would I want to be a middle aged woman? I'd be even more miserable! But I'm past that now and I feel and look a lot better than I did this time last year. Plus everyone tells me how E makes you look younger... so Yay!



Thanks again for the kind words of encouragement. This halloween I'm dressing in a Japanese school girl sailor uniform. I haven't done that in public in about 28 years.  One of the bands I'm in (a classic rock cover band) always plays at a certain club where they have a costume party. No one in the band knows what I'm wearing, so it should be a hoot! I'm looking forward to the looks on their faces. My son said I look like a librarian with the long black wig on and my glasses. lol

LOL, Japanese school girl. I like.  And yeah, I've only actually been on e for maybe 3 or 4 months, I think around 4. I'm terrible with memory-

I've noticed that my skin has gotten ever so slightly smoother, I definitely do look a lot younger, even though I'm only 19-weird.
I've also noticed that my eyes look more feminine, I don't really know how, their shape is exactly the same they just seem to be more feminine. It's weird. xD

And I'm not trying to encourage I'm just telling you what I see!

[RavenMoon]

LOL, Japanese school girl. I like.

Yeah, I'm a geek. lol I would have so been into cosplay had it been around when I was younger!

And I'm not trying to encourage I'm just telling you what I see!

I read members' experiences here, and they are mostly positive, and that's encouraging. Having not been in the loop, and being a tad naive, I have to say that coming to a wonderful forum like this is an eye opening experience. I went from feeling totally isolated to being a lot like a lot of other people. I also have made friends with a wonderful trans woman from Canada (who has a web site up of her transition), and she's been very supportive. She puts up with my zillion and one questions,and we even Skype each other occasionally. She said I should seek out some support groups in my area, and while looking for those I found this place. So the trans community is really such a great supportive family to have. I'm so pleasantly surprised by it all. I went from feelings of despair to knowing I can do this, because I have so many real life examples to look up to.

Yeah, I'm a sappy corn ball.  lol

[Lexi Belle]

Yeah, I'm a geek. lol I would have so been into cosplay had it been around when I was younger!

I read members' experiences here, and they are mostly positive, and that's encouraging. Having not been in the loop, and being a tad naive, I have to say that coming to a wonderful forum like this is an eye opening experience. I went from feeling totally isolated to being a lot like a lot of other people. I also have made friends with a wonderful trans woman from Canada (who has a web site up of her transition), and she's been very supportive. She puts up with my zillion and one questions,and we even Skype each other occasionally. She said I should seek out some support groups in my area, and while looking for those I found this place. So the trans community is really such a great supportive family to have. I'm so pleasantly surprised by it all. I went from feelings of despair to knowing I can do this, because I have so many real life examples to look up to.

Yeah, I'm a sappy corn ball.  lol

Nothin wrong with that, I always prefer talking to people.  I also have a skype if you wanna add me It should be right below my posts. xD

i used to be pretty disgruntled about this whole idea too, but I've since unlocked myself from my brain and just learned to let go and try to see myself from a new pair of eyes.

[Sophia Gubb]

I wrote a little article in response to this, I hope it's okay with the mods if I post?

[RavenMoon]

This Wikipedia article has some of this brain related info.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexualism

One thing I wasn't familiar with is "digit ratio" as a secondary gender marker. Interestingly my index and ring fingers are about the same length, with the index being slightly longer. Males have shorter index fingers than females. Females also have longer arms. These characteristics are from prenatal androgen exposure, or insensitivity to it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit_ratio

The interesting things about these studies is it validates us as far as this not being all in our head. There are measurable physical differences in us that more closely match natal females.

[Sammy]

Let me add another one to this . About longer arms... I learned recently the rationale behind that - with longer arms it is easier to cross them so that both palms go under the ribcage. Guys tend to cross arms right in front of their chest, whereas girls - those being on the HRT are very well aware of the reason why - cross them lower. I can do it both ways and I always had long arms - but my fingers are about the same lenght, with index being a tiny bit shorter .

And referring back to Your previous discussions... You can count on getting ~ 5 years of Your age back because of the effects of the HRT on Your face and skin.

[KabitTarah]

Let me add another one to this . About longer arms... I learned recently the rationale behind that - with longer arms it is easier to cross them so that both palms go under the ribcage. Guys tend to cross arms right in front of their chest, whereas girls - those being on the HRT are very well aware of the reason why - cross them lower. I can do it both ways and I always had long arms - but my fingers are about the same lenght, with index being a tiny bit shorter .

And referring back to Your previous discussions... You can count on getting ~ 5 years of Your age back because of the effects of the HRT on Your face and skin.

I don't think I've ever crossed my arms that high! Over the nipples (or almost)?

I'd heard about the digits thing... my index is slightly smaller, but only by a couple millimeters. My ratio was around .97-.98 I think.

The problem with these measurements is that the bell curves overlap so much that unless it's entirely obvious (like a >>1.00 ratio in MTF) the numbers aren't that useful.

[Lexi Belle]

This Wikipedia article has some of this brain related info.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexualism

One thing I wasn't familiar with is "digit ratio" as a secondary gender marker. Interestingly my index and ring fingers are about the same length, with the index being slightly longer. Males have shorter index fingers than females. Females also have longer arms. These characteristics are from prenatal androgen exposure, or insensitivity to it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit_ratio

The interesting things about these studies is it validates us as far as this not being all in our head. There are measurable physical differences in us that more closely match natal females.

I actually think it's an oversight.  My index finger is a good bit smaller, about quarter of an inch, I never felt male. Ever.  They don't indicate anything other than you happened to get female proportioned hands.

[RavenMoon]

And referring back to Your previous discussions... You can count on getting ~ 5 years of Your age back because of the effects of the HRT on Your face and skin.

Yay! Because I'm not getting any younger. Lol

[RavenMoon]

I actually think it's an oversight.  My index finger is a good bit smaller, about quarter of an inch, I never felt male. Ever.  They don't indicate anything other than you happened to get female proportioned hands.

I think the changes in the brain have a greater effect on gender identity, but it is interesting about the digit ratio. Clearly some people have very male bodies while others don't. That doesn't seem to matter.

[KabitTarah]

I'd be interested to hear if there's a correlation between digit ratio and gender differences in the brain in trans* individuals. My guess is no or not much of one - there are so many other factors. Genetics could certainly partially determine digit sizes. Brain gender and digit size formation may occur at different times prenatally.

I'm also curious about the sliding scale of gender versus brain gender vice social influences. I lived for 20 years as male, when I could have chosen to aim for female at age 15 (by telling my parents more than I did). I was a scared kid with major problems coping back then, instead of a scared adult with a coping mechanism from ages 18-35. I still feel that, especially for those pubescent years, that I'm clearly strongly transgender. I just found a different outlet that worked for many years.

[RavenMoon]

I'd be interested to hear if there's a correlation between digit ratio and gender differences in the brain in trans* individuals. My guess is no or not much of one - there are so many other factors.

There might be, because it shows that when you were exposed to androgen prenataly, it either had an effect that you would expect (shorter index finger) or it didn't. This is also assumed to affect the brain. Some of it is genetics of both you and your mother.

Some things that affect the mother will change aspects in the baby. For instance, there has been shown to be a correlation to the pregnant mother being in stressful situations and the male children they are carrying to grow up gay. This was shown statistically during WWII in Germany. But I don't thing any causality was looked for or found.

[anjaq]

Please educate yourself before assuming mood disorders are caused by things like abuse. Decades of scientific inquiry disagree with your "idea", and even my personal history defies your explanation, I'm afraid. If brain anatomy and chemical imbalances can "cause" someone to be TG, then why is it such a stretch for it to "cause" someone to be depressed?

Ok, let me revise that - It CAN happen but I think most depression has other causes. Not solely abuse but also I believe living circumstances and other events. Even what we consider "good circumstances" can cause depression because something else is lacking. I read a study once that linked living in a city to increased rates of depression, which actually could be lowered if people did have good access to nautre walks and such. Depression is a classical multifactorial issue, I would say and genetics or brain issues certainly play a role but to put it all back on that and try to cure every depression by shifting chemical balance in the brain - that cannot work. I had SSRIs for a year - all it had done to me was gain weight a lot and I was still severly depressed. And that was some years post-op, so it was not really a GID issue. I think it was mostly insecurity about the future, jobs, relationships and such, certainly post-op anxiety about passing and being exposed as trans, definitely me living in the city without good ways to calm down in a nature setting which I personally definitely need and lack of good social network. I certainly have a predisposition to depression as I get it on and off since I was little, but I still think that in each case it occurs, there are tangible reasons that foster it, it does not just come without any reason solely because of brain imbalance. Though i am sure for some it may be that , I am just ryting to give my experiences here. I am sorry if I came off as being dismissive of people having depression issues - I know how ->-bleeped-<-ty it is to have those...

Ha - for what its worth, my two fingeres there are the same as well, but I think the statistics are really not great and its easy to misread it by a mm or two and then its already a lot of difference.
I never heard of any arm- or leg length issues though. I heard something about having very little body hair being something about a slight androgen insensitivity - but that was not linked to being TG yet.