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Male Privilege?

Started by brianna1016, October 16, 2013, 03:44:43 AM

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brianna1016

What the hell is 'male privilege' anyway? I keep reading about people who have experienced the shock of not having this anymore after they began transitioning. Pretty sure I never had male privilege to begin with and/or never wanted it. Being 'male' never gave me any privileges, it was a chore that I despised greatly.

I was always secretly jealous of the way women were treated. I felt like I got cheated! I guess I never really felt entitled to anything that comes with having a male body, so I feel like I didn't lose anything.

And honestly I really love the way men treat me now. It's not like that much has changed, I just finally have a body that matches my brain. Thank God!  :)

I really can't think of any privileges that I lost. I'm interested to know what other people's experiences have been.  Any thoughts?

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Tessa James

Oh I could give you dozens of personal experiences.  When I presented as a guy people treated me different than the women in the same role.  I was an anesthetist and if I walked into a room with a woman wearing the same sexless scrubs she would usually be thought of as a nurse and I would be called doctor even if the actual credentials were reversed.  At meetings I was often expected to "take charge" and be the leader when women beside me had more experience.  I was more often considered for advanced placement because I was "a guy" and serious about work.

People do make all kinds of assumptions based on sex. 

Like you I am enjoying where I am now
Open, out and evolving queer trans person forever with HRT support since March 13, 2013
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Ms Grace

On average men earn higher salaries for equivalent work, men are more likely to be promoted to higher positions than women, men are more likely to be listened to (and believed) by other men in meetings, etc... As the old feminist saying goes "women have to try twice as hard to be considered half as good as men." And possibly these days it's not quite as bad in some areas of the Western world as it was before the 1970s but women still have a fair way to go before they have full equality and of course it's very bad in some parts of the world, women are often treated as second class citizens or less.
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
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Jessica Merriman

I think a good question especially for us MtF transitioners is: Are we lucky or unlucky we have experienced "Male privilege" in our former lives knowing we are going to be subject to the reversal? Food for thought.  ;)
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suzifrommd

There are privileges on both sides of the gender divide. Females are treated with more sensitivity and solicitousness. Males are credited with more substance. Both are real.

However, both of them are microscopic compared to "cis privilege", the privilege extended to people who are not perceived to be attempting to straddle or cross the gender barrier.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Alainaluvsu

I remember how my thoughts and ideas would actually be listened to by men. I also remember when it was in my place to be anything but feminine. One male privilege that nobody ever talks about is how men get to say just about any off the wall thing they want and they get shrugged off as just being men. Women almost have to act uniformly or they're singled out.
To dream of the person you would like to be is to waste the person you are.



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Danielle Emmalee

I think most "male privilege" is actually "alpha male privilege", just like most "female privilege" is based on being stereotypically female.
Discord, I'm howlin' at the moon
And sleepin' in the middle of a summer afternoon
Discord, whatever did we do
To make you take our world away?

Discord, are we your prey alone,
Or are we just a stepping stone for taking back the throne?
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So take your tyranny away!
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KabitTarah

Quote from: <3 on October 16, 2013, 07:12:24 AM
I think most "male privilege" is actually "alpha male privilege", just like most "female privilege" is based on being stereotypically female.

I think it's a continuum of privilige. The more masculine and alpha you are, the more privilige you get. Likewise for being female - a "butch" woman gets less female privilige. And we get neither... unless we're correctly gendered (or strongly misgendered).
~ Tarah ~

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Carlita

Quote from: Grace_C on October 16, 2013, 04:28:03 AM
On average men earn higher salaries for equivalent work, men are more likely to be promoted to higher positions than women, men are more likely to be listened to (and believed) by other men in meetings, etc... As the old feminist saying goes "women have to try twice as hard to be considered half as good as men." And possibly these days it's not quite as bad in some areas of the Western world as it was before the 1970s but women still have a fair way to go before they have full equality and of course it's very bad in some parts of the world, women are often treated as second class citizens or less.

There's absolutely no denying the fact that women were much worse off than men in the past, and certainly still are across great swathes of the globe. But it's worth pointing out that in the West (incl. the US, Canada, Australia, UK, Europe) women now make up around 60% of all university graduates. That has an immediate impact on their career prospects, so virtually all the traditional professions - medicine, law, accountancy, etc - now have a greater number of women entering them, and more women than men up to about the age of 35 (i.e. until childbirth affects women's life choices). That in turn means that young women in the West are now earning more than their male counterparts. This actually causes problems of its own because it means that women can't depend on a man to bring home the bacon, have to keep earning their own money and thus find it harder to find the time and resources to have children - hence plummeting birth rates among the host populations of western countries, especially among graduate women.

One might also add that women are allowed a much wider range of presentation and activity, without sacrificing their femininity/femaleness than men are allowed before they are seen not to be sufficiantly male (I think we, of all people, know this). Women can wear what they like, act girly or butch, do 'guy' things ... In all sorts of ways the pendulum has swung in women's favour over the past few decades, which is great ... unless you have a son to worry about.

But, again, that's not to say that there aren;t still cultures and religions in which women are oppressed, abused and mutilated in appalling and unacceptable ways.

For myself, I was about as privileged as a male can be: white, tall, healthy, from the upper end of the social scale, educated to a very high level at world-famous institutions, great job, the works .. and I'd have swapped it all in a heartbeat for the chance to live my whole life as natural-born woman.
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Megumi

Honestly it has felt like a curse to me. You must act this way, talk this way, walk this way, anything that strays from the mold and you get berated for it.

I have enjoyed very little of the male privileges throughout my life.

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KabitTarah

Quote from: Megan on October 16, 2013, 08:16:52 AM
Honestly it has felt like a curse to me. You must act this way, talk this way, walk this way, anything that strays from the mold and you get berated for it.

Yes to this!

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on October 16, 2013, 08:18:45 AM
The biggest male privilege ever is not to be aware of its existence, btw. And there is a grain of truth in that statement, believe or not ;).

And very much to this! Just reading about it ("Whipping Girl") and being an active observer opened my eyes. I was never a bad offender of micro aggressions toward women, but all men are taught to do it. I certainly hope that's gone now.
~ Tarah ~

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Nero

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on October 16, 2013, 08:18:45 AM
The biggest male privilege ever is not to be aware of its existence, btw. And there is a grain of truth in that statement, believe or not ;).

Good point.

There's a misconception about male privilege and privileges in general. It doesn't mean someone with privilege in one area has it easy. You could be a poor, gay white man and be treated like crap every day and still have privilege people of color don't. An effeminate man may get less respect than the proverbial 'alpha male' but it doesn't mean he doesn't have male privilege.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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KabitTarah

Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on October 16, 2013, 08:36:01 AM
We will pay our debts by "enjoying" the experience from the other side :). I was never keenly aware of that until I came out to my best male friend. It really seems that he sometimes considers me to be a second class person, who needs to be explained simple things - despite having done that countless times before. This, and everytime we meet each other, he tries to secretly check me out - butt, bewbs etc. Argh....

I'll almost enjoy it ;)

I still get people close to me who think I'm downplaying what they know how to do, etc. It has nothing to do with what I'm saying or how I'm saying it (mostly online, actually)... I think they just assume that I'm degrading them because I'm male... and it usually has to do with computer stuff - since I'm pretty good with that stuff and tend to over explain things to everyone (not just women).

(Actually.... Lately I feel like the technology knows I'm a trans girl and is rebelling against me... I think it's called "getting older" - either that or the cheap crap we buy because it's cheap :D ).
~ Tarah ~

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pretty pauline

Quote from: kabit on October 16, 2013, 08:40:47 AM
and it usually has to do with computer stuff
Male Privilege yawn, lots of threads about this over the years.
Only a few months ago, myself and hubby went to a computer store to get a new printer, I just asked a question about loading ink cartridges, the guy just ignored me, I wasn't letting it go and asked again, then he replied ''your ok luv, Iv explained it all to your husband'' he was very rude, then I overheard him saying to his work colleague, ''women really should stick to flower arranging'' some men have no respect for women.
But then theres Female Privilege which I enjoy, I never have to stand on a train, always get offered a seat and doors get opened for me. My husband does all the heavy dirty work in the house and garden, its nice have a guy around doing all that stuff that I hate doing.
If your going thru hell, just keep going.
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KabitTarah

Quote from: pretty pauline on October 16, 2013, 09:18:23 AM
Male Privilege yawn, lots of threads about this over the years.
Only a few months ago, myself and hubby went to a computer store to get a new printer, I just asked a question about loading ink cartridges, the guy just ignored me, I wasn't letting it go and asked again, then he replied ''your ok luv, Iv explained it all to your husband'' he was very rude, then I overheard him saying to his work colleague, ''women really should stick to flower arranging'' some men have no respect for women.
But then theres Female Privilege which I enjoy, I never have to stand on a train, always get offered a seat and doors get opened for me. My husband does all the heavy dirty work in the house and garden, its nice have a guy around doing all that stuff that I hate doing.

Yeah... that's just my example. I don't say anything like that - I just over explain things so there's no question. Yes, I know you know how to press "ok" but I'm still going to say it. I'm going to just laugh when tech heads treat me like that... then school them.

Female privilege will be nice.
~ Tarah ~

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ZoeM

The only case of this I've encountered was when a (female) nurse kept on overexplaining things and acting like I had the understanding of a child. But she knew I was transgender, and I'm not sure if that factored into her actions or not.
Don't lose who you are along the path to who you want to be.








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brianna1016

Quote from: Carlita on October 16, 2013, 08:07:17 AM

One might also add that women are allowed a much wider range of presentation and activity, without sacrificing their femininity/femaleness than men are allowed before they are seen not to be sufficiantly male (I think we, of all people, know this). Women can wear what they like, act girly or butch, do 'guy' things ... In all sorts of ways the pendulum has swung in women's favour over the past few decades, which is great ... unless you have a son to worry about.


I totally agree with you on this.
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brianna1016

Quote from: pretty pauline on October 16, 2013, 09:18:23 AM
Male Privilege yawn, lots of threads about this over the years.
Yeah I'm sure everything there is to say has already been said on this forum.

Quote from: pretty pauline on October 16, 2013, 09:18:23 AM
But then theres Female Privilege which I enjoy, I never have to stand on a train, always get offered a seat and doors get opened for me. My husband does all the heavy dirty work in the house and garden, its nice have a guy around doing all that stuff that I hate doing.

I wish I had a man around to do the dirty work and heavy lifting. :) Yes, female privileges are much nicer imo.
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brianna1016

Quote from: Megan on October 16, 2013, 08:16:52 AM
Honestly it has felt like a curse to me. You must act this way, talk this way, walk this way, anything that strays from the mold and you get berated for it.

I have enjoyed very little of the male privileges throughout my life.

Exactly. Straight men are held to this nearly impossible standard of behavior and physical appearance. Or maybe it was just impossible for me :) Ironically, it was the women I knew that would call me out on my behavior and make fun of me when they felt I was not acting like a man is supposed to. What a bunch of BS. It got so bad that I was constantly having to stop and think about everything I said or did to make sure it wouldn't be perceived as gay or feminine. Ugh! So glad I don't have to worry about that any more.
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Robin Mack

Could it be that our perception of male/female privilege has a great deal to do with who we are inside?  I will admit, I was largely blind to male privilege until I married and suddenly had two wonderful daughters (5 and 6 years old when I married their mother).  As they grew, I got a glimpse into the world of being a girl, something I (wrongly) thought I would never be privileged enough to experience.

I saw it again and again, through school, jobs, dating, etc.  There *are* privileges for each gender baked in to society.  Courteous men offer to help ladies move heavy objects and let them have their seats.  Tacit implication: Women are not as strong, nor do they have the ability to stand on their own.  Men are expected to be assertive.  Tacit implication: Women who assert themselves are bitchy and unnatural.

Things are slowly changing for the better... but I think that no one will ever quite see male/female privilege in quite the way the trans community does.  Is this one of the areas where we are uniquely qualified to contribute to a better, more equal future?
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