Susan's Place Logo

News:

Visit our Discord server  and Wiki

Main Menu

30+ examples of cisgender privilege?

Started by Shawn Sunshine, October 17, 2013, 11:43:37 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Shawn Sunshine

 :o I found this article that lists 30+ things cisgender people don't have to experience
I am curious of these which do you find true most?

http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2011/11/list-of-cisgender-privileges/
Shawn Sunshine Strickland The Strickalator

#SupergirlsForJustice
  •  

aleon515

I really like him a lot. He wrote a book on gender here: http://www.amazon.com/Social-Justice-Advocates-Handbook-Gender/dp/0989760200/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1382031171&sr=1-1&keywords=a+social+advocate%27s+guide+to+gender

I think he's a great ally who can explain stuff well to the cis and straight world.


My feeling is that some of these are debatable and apply to others (finding clothing to fit your size, for instance). But some are undeniable. A big one not in here is the seeming ability of cispeople to ask re: surgeries you have had without any apparent embarrassment.

--Jay
  •  

Carrie Liz

Definitely "4. Your validity as a man/woman/human is not based on how much surgery you've had or how well you "pass" as non-transgender."

If I didn't have to deal with constantly worrying about this, my life would be a hell of a lot easier, and extremely less stressful. This is where a majority of my life's depression and anxiety have come from.
  •  

suzifrommd

Actually, the worse one for me (at this point) didn't even make the list:

QuoteYou are considered an appropriate dating, relationship, and sexual partner for people whose sexuality is oriented toward your gender.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
  •  

Lesley_Roberta

Damn right, in fact reading that was actually a bit difficult as it just rams it home how good the cis have it.
Well being TG is no treat, but becoming separated has sure caused me more trouble that being TG ever will be. So if I post, consider it me trying to distract myself from being lonely, not my needing to discuss being TG. I don't want to be separated a lot more than not wanting to be male looking.
  •  

Ms Grace

That list makes me pretty sad. Fortunately we have (slightly) better protections against discrimination here in much of Australia so some of those don't apply as much to me, but it's sad to consider it applies to anyone.
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
  •  

Lesley_Roberta

I am copying the list here, because really, some of it I think is over thinking and some I think is dumb, and I have deleted some due to my thinking that it's not realistic to even care.

Here is the list, as I have edited it, because I think some of it DOES need error correcting.

Use public restrooms without fear of verbal abuse, physical intimidation, or arrest.
I can relate here, although in my case, I can use either one, because in the end, I don't care who is next to me when I am peeing. So if I get the surgery and I have to pee sitting, and technically I am female, but life has left me looking male and I will get less grief peeing in the men's room and no one will even care, aside from I am what they think is a man in a dress, I personally don't care. I just want to pee. It's better than pissing myself in a dress.

Use public facilities such as gym locker rooms and store changing rooms without stares, fear, or anxiety.
Well until I can drop my panties, and not have a penis in them...... my thinking is more or less the same as peeing. I just want a secure place for my clothes. I don't care who is looking at my body. I couldn't care less if a gay male thinks I have a nice tool and nice taste in clothes. Just so long as my possessions are safe when I am done swimming eh. I'm more concerned for my possessions.

Strangers don't assume they can ask you what your genitals look like and how you have sex.
I'm already used to a life time of utterly moronic crap directed at heteros regarding sex by sex obsessed religions. This is just another dumb aspect of the same line of crap from the same people actually. Same people, different flavour of stupid crap.

Your validity as a man/woman/human is not based on how much surgery you've had or how well you "pass" as non-transgender.
Sadly, this is a hassle you can get from our own people, the homosexual crowd as well as the cis world. It seems everyone is judging us.

You have the ability to walk through the world and generally blend-in, not being constantly stared or gawked at, whispered about, pointed at, or laughed at because of your gender expression.
Well actually, the problem is ALL of society is doing this to all of humanity. We laugh at the short and the fat and the ugly. We laugh at the poorly dressed. And we laugh at hair styles of anyone. TG are not a special case here. I spend all the time in Tim Horton's wondering if some of the cis people actually have a mirror at home.

Strangers call you by the name you provide, and don't ask what your "real name" [birth name] is and then assume that they have a right to call you by that name.
No argument here.

You can reasonably assume that your ability to acquire a job, rent an apartment, or secure a loan will not be denied on the basis of your gender identity/expression.
But then again, you might be black and the target of racism, or not from the right economic sector, or just plain not one of them so to speak.
Prejudice comes in many forms, the TG world is not special.

You have the ability to flirt, engage in courtship, or form a relationship and not fear that your biological status may be cause for rejection or attack, nor will it cause your partner to question their sexual orientation.
Ever tried to date an Asian and not be Asian?, or again, the whole colour thing. Or possibly you are the wrong faith. Or you might be the wrong class. Love will not let a barrier stop it. But you can assume there are always barriers. People often get married for dumb reasons too.

Your identity is not considered a mental pathology ("gender identity disorder" in the DSM IV) by the psychological and medical establishments.
If I had a penny for every over medicated cis person I am aware of. But yes, I am not a chapter in your psychiatric training. I am not some form of medical condition. I might be an example of evolution though.


Hollywood accurately depicts people of your gender in films and television, and does not solely make  your identity the focus of a dramatic storyline, or the punchline for a joke.
Hehehehehehehehe oh this is funny. Hollywood get anything correct? Tell me this is a joke. Hollywood is just porn with clothing.

Be able to assume that everyone you encounter will understand your identity, and not think you're confused, misled, or hell-bound when you reveal it to them.
Hmm if you are not the right faith, you will be considered confused misled and hellbound regardless. I'm already aware of this. They've told me already. I didn't need to be TG.

Being able to purchase clothes that match your gender identity without being refused service/mocked by staff or questioned on your genitals.
This IS a hassle.

Being able to purchase shoes that fit your gender expression without having to order them in special sizes or asking someone to custom-make them.
Unless life simply made you an annoying shape as well. I know plenty of girls that can't find clothes in the stylish shops.

No stranger checking your identification or drivers license will ever insult or glare at you because your name or sex does not match the sex they believed you to be based on your gender expression.
After a life time of no ID from not driving, I am pretty much used to people having trouble accepting I am anyone at all actually.

You can reasonably assume that you will not be denied services at a hospital, bank, or other institution because the staff does not believe the gender marker on your ID card to match your gender identity.
I'm Canadian, I don't actually experience trouble getting medical assistance. I have yet to encounter a bank that wants anything other than my piece of plastic. They don't care what I look like. I do my mother's banking all the time too. Machines only want those numbers correct, they don't care which human is using them.

Having your gender as an option on a form.
I have yet to actually have a problem with this. I am female, I say I am female, I have signed up for a variety of things as female. I even sometimes even use my actual name. Often I just make up names. I'm fond of Me as first name and Here as last name :)

Being able to tick a box on a form without someone disagreeing, and telling you not to lie.  Yes, this happens.
This is just an extension of the above. I'd be inclined to stare them down. Don't cave in.

Being able to go to places with friends on a whim knowing there will be bathrooms there you can use.
This is just the whole bathroom change room again, and is redundant.

You don't have to convince your parents of your true gender and/or have to earn your parents' and siblings' love and respect all over again.
If they actually love you you have no problem, if they don't, you ditch them and move on. They're family, not the oxygen you breath. Friends are worth more to me than family that don't want me. You don't need to re earn real love.
And I have seen no shortage of dysfunctional cis persons in my life. Family, it should be better than it often is. Hey you married a specific person, not the entire family. You need the person you married, you don't necessarily need all the inlaws.

You don't have to remind your extended family over and over to use proper gender pronouns (e.g., after transitioning).
This is an aggravation of course. Just stop using theirs till they get it in their heads. Your brother will come around, otherwise call him ->-bleeped-<-. Mom either gets over it, or you can call her the family breeder. Hey, there's no rule saying you have to take it lying down.

You don't have to deal with old photographs that did not reflect who you truly are.
You can always get rid of them eh.

Knowing that if you're dating someone they aren't just looking to satisfy a curiosity or kink pertaining to your gender identity (e.g., the "novelty" of having sex with a trans- person).
Hey cis people don't have it any easier dating.

Being able to pretend that anatomy and gender are irrevocably entwined when having the "boy parts and girl parts" talk with children, instead of explaining the actual complexity of the issue
Oh if parents actually just taught their kids the real truth of sex. It's fun, it's natural, and if you don't do it right you end up parents explaining to your own kids it's fun and it's natural and if you don't do it right you end up parents explaining to your own kids.......
Well being TG is no treat, but becoming separated has sure caused me more trouble that being TG ever will be. So if I post, consider it me trying to distract myself from being lonely, not my needing to discuss being TG. I don't want to be separated a lot more than not wanting to be male looking.
  •  

Taka

you want a commentary...?

1: cis girls get raped in toilets as well. and cis people even abuse each other physically or verbally in toilets. it's not like anyone else is safer.
2: people stare at anyone who's disfigured in any way. got a finger too many? they'll stare. bad scars, birthmarks etc. make people stare regardless of gender.
3: they do ask cis people how they have sex too. maybe not as insistently, but still.
4: no, it only depends on how perfect you appear. there's just too many other factors here. an ugly cis woman isn't better off than a trans woman. a fetus with down's isn't even worthy of being born, despite the chance of it being cis gender. cis people who refuse to get surgery for some conditions may also be seen as less human.
5: do all cis people look the same? we love to stare at anything that stick out. many cis people don't have the ability to hide no matter how much they want to.
6: mm, that might hold a point.
7: isn't your real name your legal name? i've had to ask my cis female teacher about her real name, with the assumption of a right to use it when necessary. can't remember what it was though, we always used her nickname instead.
8: maybe not on basis of gender identity. but sexuality, skin color, ethnicity, expression (there's so much more to express than just gender). the funniest story i heard was about how a gay couple (friends of mine) were looking for an apartment in a northern city. one landlord seemed very positive, and thought it was nice (and a little exotic), but then he asked where they worked. one at the university (great!), but the other worked for the saami parliament. suddenly the door was shut in their faces. cis privilege only gets you that far...
9: ehh... no. cis people will also doubt and be doubted by cis people.
10: my of my cis friends have been given rather poor treatment because of skin color, ethnicity, disabilities etc. ok, so it wasn't because of their gender. but that didn't help them much.
11: 2nd point of this story.
12: are all trans people planning crime...? being cis won't protect you from being raped. not sure how much better they have it.
13: no. many cis women express their gender in a way that will have people asking for sexual services. creeps will creep on the cis as well.
14: you have no idea how many cis people are treated in the same way. some never get the treatment that they need. "the pain is only in your head, let's check that instead".
15: ever heard about how bisexual people are discriminated against? most of them cis.
16: a cis woman's clothing will be used to justify the rape of her.
17: what does trans or cis have to do with this?
18: eh, refer to lesley.
19: really now? feminists go to hell, homosexuals go to hell, non-muslims go to hell, non-christians go to hell, atheists most definitely go to hell. all religious people are confused and misled. gay people are too. (depending on who you ask, of course)
20: they're nicer than that here in norway. but those who mock would probably mock anyone who isn't pretty enough.
21: cis people make special orders as well. not to fit gender identity, but their feet, or some other identity.
22: but they can find hundreds of other reasons. just easier when there's an obvious mismatch, they don't have to look for anything else.
23: id card with the right gender marker doesn't help much if the nationality is wrong. or your job. income. color. etc.
24: but most trans people do have the right option. this is binary privilege. only non-binary or intersex people run into real problems with this.
25: of course it happens. even to cis people. it's not just the gender that is checked on forms.
26: i can think of too many other reasons to fear interactions with them though. paint yourself white if you want to feel safe.
27: it's happened that there weren't bathrooms. at all. other than that, you use what there is.
28: i've long since given up on gaining respect. i respect them, to the extent of how much they respect me. love is a little more unconditional, but i wouldn't do just anything for someone who only mocks me. more than enough cis people have lost family for identifying wrongly, and this includes so much more than just gender identity.
29: i just have to remind them of all kinds of other things that i don't accept them saying to me.
30: but cis people do. you can start with facebook, and if you aren't convinced yet, try child porn. doesn't reflect who those children really are.
31: there's no way to ever be sure of that. for anyone.
32: ok, so we simplify a little. but it's really only about explaining how those parts function.
  •  

Natkat

nr 2 is most true for me.
Use public facilities such as gym locker rooms and store changing rooms without stares, fear, or anxiety.

still got anxiety about going to the locker room. I know some gay folks also got bad experience with it, but at least there not talked to as there the criminals who is selfish and want to molest or make other unconfortable.
--
He should also had added a:
"being able to get kids without anyone questioning if what you do is right or will harm the children"
  •  

Taka

Quote from: Natkat on October 18, 2013, 12:47:06 PM
"being able to get kids without anyone questioning if what you do is right or will harm the children"
that is also a privilege for the few. many cis people don't experience it.
  •  

Dahlia

Quote from: Carrie Liz on October 17, 2013, 12:45:31 PM
Definitely "4. Your validity as a man/woman/human is not based on how much surgery you've had or how well you "pass" as non-transgender."

Ehm, I actually know 2 born women of people f/m/ts always think they're mtf....they're not masculine looking and feminine acting.
One is unusually tall with a big head, big hands and feet, the other is short, has 'a dark' voice, a broad jaw and chin and wide shoulders.
Both are biologically mothers, which confuses peopele even more.

Both have to explain they're not MTF but born women.
  •  

sweetlittlemisery

Speaking on behalf of my trans partner, they definitely find these the most applicable:

#1 Use public restrooms without fear of verbal abuse, physical intimidation, or arrest.
(When we visit bigger towns or somewhere unfamiliar, my partner feels pressured into using the female toilets to avoid any confrontations or stares)


#20 Being able to purchase clothes that match your gender identity without being refused service/mocked by staff or questioned on your genitals.
(There is currently a top that my partner would love to try on in a guy's store, but it's always very quiet, and even with me accompanying them, they feel unable to enter the store)

#23 You can reasonably assume that you will not be denied services at a hospital, bank, or other institution because the staff does not believe the gender marker on your ID card to match your gender identity.
(My partner has been denied something as basic as a *haircut* from a barbers because they refused to accept that he identifies as male)

#29 You don't have to remind your extended family over and over to use proper gender pronouns (e.g., after transitioning).
(His mother is the only person in the family that knows about his transition - we live hundreds of miles away from our hometown - and over Skype etc, she still refers to him by his birthname and female pronouns. It is very upsetting sometimes).
  •  

Lo

Quote from: Taka on October 18, 2013, 11:54:01 AM
you want a commentary...?

1: cis girls get raped in toilets as well. and cis people even abuse each other physically or verbally in toilets. it's not like anyone else is safer.
2: people stare at anyone who's disfigured in any way. got a finger too many? they'll stare. bad scars, birthmarks etc. make people stare regardless of gender.
3: they do ask cis people how they have sex too. maybe not as insistently, but still.
4: no, it only depends on how perfect you appear. there's just too many other factors here. an ugly cis woman isn't better off than a trans woman. a fetus with down's isn't even worthy of being born, despite the chance of it being cis gender. cis people who refuse to get surgery for some conditions may also be seen as less human.
5: do all cis people look the same? we love to stare at anything that stick out. many cis people don't have the ability to hide no matter how much they want to.
6: mm, that might hold a point.
7: isn't your real name your legal name? i've had to ask my cis female teacher about her real name, with the assumption of a right to use it when necessary. can't remember what it was though, we always used her nickname instead.
8: maybe not on basis of gender identity. but sexuality, skin color, ethnicity, expression (there's so much more to express than just gender). the funniest story i heard was about how a gay couple (friends of mine) were looking for an apartment in a northern city. one landlord seemed very positive, and thought it was nice (and a little exotic), but then he asked where they worked. one at the university (great!), but the other worked for the saami parliament. suddenly the door was shut in their faces. cis privilege only gets you that far...
9: ehh... no. cis people will also doubt and be doubted by cis people.
10: my of my cis friends have been given rather poor treatment because of skin color, ethnicity, disabilities etc. ok, so it wasn't because of their gender. but that didn't help them much.
11: 2nd point of this story.
12: are all trans people planning crime...? being cis won't protect you from being raped. not sure how much better they have it.
13: no. many cis women express their gender in a way that will have people asking for sexual services. creeps will creep on the cis as well.
14: you have no idea how many cis people are treated in the same way. some never get the treatment that they need. "the pain is only in your head, let's check that instead".
15: ever heard about how bisexual people are discriminated against? most of them cis.
16: a cis woman's clothing will be used to justify the rape of her.
17: what does trans or cis have to do with this?
18: eh, refer to lesley.
19: really now? feminists go to hell, homosexuals go to hell, non-muslims go to hell, non-christians go to hell, atheists most definitely go to hell. all religious people are confused and misled. gay people are too. (depending on who you ask, of course)
20: they're nicer than that here in norway. but those who mock would probably mock anyone who isn't pretty enough.
21: cis people make special orders as well. not to fit gender identity, but their feet, or some other identity.
22: but they can find hundreds of other reasons. just easier when there's an obvious mismatch, they don't have to look for anything else.
23: id card with the right gender marker doesn't help much if the nationality is wrong. or your job. income. color. etc.
24: but most trans people do have the right option. this is binary privilege. only non-binary or intersex people run into real problems with this.
25: of course it happens. even to cis people. it's not just the gender that is checked on forms.
26: i can think of too many other reasons to fear interactions with them though. paint yourself white if you want to feel safe.
27: it's happened that there weren't bathrooms. at all. other than that, you use what there is.
28: i've long since given up on gaining respect. i respect them, to the extent of how much they respect me. love is a little more unconditional, but i wouldn't do just anything for someone who only mocks me. more than enough cis people have lost family for identifying wrongly, and this includes so much more than just gender identity.
29: i just have to remind them of all kinds of other things that i don't accept them saying to me.
30: but cis people do. you can start with facebook, and if you aren't convinced yet, try child porn. doesn't reflect who those children really are.
31: there's no way to ever be sure of that. for anyone.
32: ok, so we simplify a little. but it's really only about explaining how those parts function.

Taka, these sorts of lists are made to illustrate what cis people don't have to ensure for being cis. For being poor, for being disabled, for being women, for being of color, and so on, many of these things do happen. It's separating the axes of privilege so we all don't just throw our hands up and go "well, everybody has it bad, let's stop talking about it". The cis/not-cis axis is just one tiny slice of the pie and none of these things are mutually exclusive of other privileges and non-privileges.
  •  

aleon515

He should have added "because of gender identity" to some of those as other groups (for example women or POC) might have difficulties with these, but not for the same reason. For instance, being assaulted in restrooms-- instead of being trans it's because the person is female. As Lo points out someone might be stared at due to being disabled. So the privilege or lack thereof goes from one group to another. It doesn't mean they aren't valid for someone who is trans.
I think most of them are. But I am not sure re the stuff on shoes and clothes. It is much more universal and just being outside the bell curve. I am really short, esp for a guy, but there are other short guys. It's inconvenient but I don't really feel it is a lack of privilege.

--Jay
  •