Gender Dysphoria as a label

[Simply_Sir]

Hi all, (I think in "transgender talk" is the best place to post this; let me know if it's not)

I have been delving more deeply into gender-related counseling and therapies and was curious about what the general population thinks of the change from "Gender Identity Disorder" to "Gender Dysphoria" in the DSM-5. Although I was not part of the backlash the previous diagnostic manuals (that is to say, the DSM-IV) received regarding labeling transgender and transsexualism as a "disorder" (though I would have likely been, had I been old enough to participate and understand fully), I have come across many venomous choice words on the matter. Two worlds clash: human feeling and insurance. Now that we're not calling gender nonconformity a disorder, what are your opinions on the new way of labeling ->-bleeped-<-? Is it just another way of calling us disordered, or is it a helpful way to avoid negative connotations while still providing us access to therapy (etc)? Somewhere in between? Something not like that at all?

[Shakti]

I don't personally have a problem with the change, gender dysphoria is a term that's been around for a while. Mind you I never really had an issue with the old GID either, it IS a medical condition, so I don't know why people object to it being listed as such.

[Adam (birkin)]

I wouldn't really label GID as gender non-conformity though - cause that kind of sounds like it's more about gender roles. sure, changing my sex kind of goes against what people think a "female" is meant to do, but in terms of gender roles, I can't really say I fit cleanly into male or female.

I do think there needs to be a label for it, and I think Gender Dysphoria is good, because it's something that is treated medically - to me, to not have one and just allow people to transition without any sort of therapy, etc, would be like letting people take anti-depressants or anti-anxiety when perhaps they don't need them. Depression and anxiety have their biological roots, but they show themselves as psychological. I see GID much the same way - a medical/chemical issue, but unlike anxiety and depression can't really be "cured." Just treated to give someone comfort within their body. To me, "disorder" implies that it can somehow be made "orderly" (i.e. getting people to ID with their birth sex).

[Flan]

The chapter on Gender Dysphoria is a lot better than what was in DSM-4 but in terms of detail it has nothing on Bockting's published works on working with clients who are either gender incongruent or questioning identity or expression.

I wouldn't really label GID as gender non-conformity though - cause that kind of sounds like it's more about gender roles. sure, changing my sex kind of goes against what people think a "female" is meant to do, but in terms of gender roles, I can't really say I fit cleanly into male or female.

This is addressed in DSM-5

Nonconfonnity to gender roles. Gender dysphoria should be distinguished from sim­ple nonconformity to stereotypical gender role behavior by the strong desire to be of an­other gender than the assigned one and by the extent and pervasiveness of gender-variant activities and interests. The diagnosis is not meant to merely describe nonconformity to stereotypical gender role behavior (e.g., "tomboyism" in girls, "girly-boy" behavior in boys, occasional cross-dressing in adult men). Given the increased openness of atypical gender expressions by individuals across the entire range of the transgender spectrum, it is important that the clinical diagnosis be limited to those individuals whose distress and impairment meet the specified criteria.

[TaoRaven]

Personally, I still firmly believe that being born with the wrong set of parts is a physical birth defect. I don't lend a lot of credibility or respect to those who try to claim that gender identity or sexual orientation is some sort of mental disorder.

Is there a "diagnosis" for being a straight, cis-gender person??

No??

We are who we are...we are born this way. And on that note I will exit this thread, since this is a touchy subject for me and I'm likely to offend someone.

[Emmaline]

So long as the semantics does not stop good people suffering then it shouldn't be an issue.

I feel nervous labelling anything in case someone gets pissy, but this is my personal take at this stage.
I personally see being transgender as a physical birth defect not a mental disorder.
As a 46XY I was 'supposed' to be a boy, but one of the two hormones that communicates this failed at a critical stage in development (e for me as an mtf) and as such my brain development did not get the message and developed in that stage stayed in the default female state.  Thus my brain, or at least a core part of it, is expecting to be female though my body male.  This mismatch creates stress, depression, anxiety and a range of complications which I bundle up as Gender Dysphoria.  No amount of therapy can remove this mismatch as it is physical, but aligning body to brain eases the discomfort and gives stability.  Therefore is is not a disorder of the mind.  The mind *is* right- in me it is set up to be female.
Therefore I see GD as an illness resulting from that birth defect that effects the mind, not a mental illness.

I feel a bit like a mutant in the x-men.  Only without the cool powers.  Evolution means we are in flux, tiny changes 'mistakes', mutations, variations... humans are not a pure ideal thing, but a whole range of beings different but compatible.  I am neither male or female, I am my own specific mix based on the billions upon billions of random things leading up to my birth.  That little change that sent my brain one direction, my body another- call it what you will- disease, abomination, curse, karma, mutation, variance, two-spirit... it doesnt matter- so long as I am recognized as having human rights and am not barred from doing the thing I need to live a safe, happy life as part of my community. For me, HRT and surgery a must have to exist in peace.  I would like that recognized by the medical and medical insurance systems.

But you know, super powers would have been nice. 

[ukftminneed]

Personally, I still firmly believe that being born with the wrong set of parts is a physical birth defect. I don't lend a lot of credibility or respect to those who try to claim that gender identity or sexual orientation is some sort of mental disorder.

Is there a "diagnosis" for being a straight, cis-gender person??

No??

We are who we are...we are born this way. And on that note I will exit this thread, since this is a touchy subject for me and I'm likely to offend someone.

I agree , I wish we had a term that fit us in the medical section not the lgbt , because its something we medically transition through , plus I think if it was proven and documented and it was all shifted under a different section that we'd be accepted more , its like we dont fit anywhere , I dont belong ,
im proberly just mumbling non sense rubbish , one of those days

[suzifrommd]

I don't like the "Gender Identity Dysphoria" designation, because it simply doesn't describe many of us.

I've never felt what I would feel like generalized dysphoria. For me, the experience has been more euphoric, as I discover how wonderful it is to live the way I was meant to live.

I think it is more of a physical condition - a disagreement between body sex and brain gender. A more accurate term would be Gender/Sex Incongruity.

Doubt that will ever make the medical and psychiatric manuals, though.

[Danielle Emmalee]

Just playing devil's advocate here, this is not what I personally believe, I'm just kind of looking for clarification.  So what if it is a mental disorder?  There's no "cure"for it, and scientists have found that changing the body is the only way to make things better.  Sure, changing the classification to make it not a mental disorder since there's no cure will make people feel better about it, but does that really change the facts?  The mind doesn't match the body, why does it have to be that the body that is the one that is wrong?  Just because that is the easier one to fix?  Because people wouldn't want to change who they "are" even if there was a "magic pill" that fixed the mind?  Just because you are happy with the mental disorder and want to change your body to match it doesn't just magically make it not a mental disorder.  Is changing the classification just to cushion the feelings of transgender people? Again, please don't hate me for this post, I'm just playing devil's advocate and it is not my personal opinion.

[suzifrommd]

JThe mind doesn't match the body, why does it have to be that the body that is the one that is wrong? 

Medical science is heavily oriented toward "what works." Generations of trying to un-trans us by shock therapy, talk therapy, aversion therapy, prayer, and other stuff too nasty to describe has been unsuccessful in relieving our symptoms.

The reason why we change our bodies is because it's the only thing that has been found to work.

Just my limited understanding, of course.

[Danielle Emmalee]

Medical science is heavily oriented toward "what works." Generations of trying to un-trans us by shock therapy, talk therapy, aversion therapy, prayer, and other stuff too nasty to describe has been unsuccessful in relieving our symptoms.

The reason why we change our bodies is because it's the only thing that has been found to work.

Just my limited understanding, of course.

Exactly.  But it doesn't mean that it isn't a mental disorder.  That's all I'm saying.  And I hate that I have to say this but people tend to jump to judgement if I don't, I am NOT saying that it IS a mental disorder in any way shape or form.  I am simply stating that it isn't for sure not a mental disorder as far as my knowledge thus far in my life time.

[Simply_Sir]

I wouldn't really label GID as gender non-conformity though - cause that kind of sounds like it's more about gender roles. sure, changing my sex kind of goes against what people think a "female" is meant to do, but in terms of gender roles, I can't really say I fit cleanly into male or female.

I do think there needs to be a label for it, and I think Gender Dysphoria is good, because it's something that is treated medically - to me, to not have one and just allow people to transition without any sort of therapy, etc, would be like letting people take anti-depressants or anti-anxiety when perhaps they don't need them. Depression and anxiety have their biological roots, but they show themselves as psychological. I see GID much the same way - a medical/chemical issue, but unlike anxiety and depression can't really be "cured." Just treated to give someone comfort within their body. To me, "disorder" implies that it can somehow be made "orderly" (i.e. getting people to ID with their birth sex).

The chapter on Gender Dysphoria is a lot better than what was in DSM-4 but in terms of detail it has nothing on Bockting's published works on working with clients who are either gender incongruent or questioning identity or expression.

This is addressed in DSM-5

The issue here is that tons of "girly-boys" and "tomboys" ARE grouped into the GID label as a result of over zealous psychiatrists, fearful parents, intolerance, or many, many other reasons. I've come across quite a few gender non-conforming people who were stuck with this label since childhood and given "reparative therapies" even though they weren't what the DSM intends to include in the Gender Dysphoria diagnostics.

[Flan]

The issue here is that tons of "girly-boys" and "tomboys" ARE grouped into the GID label as a result of over zealous psychiatrists, fearful parents, intolerance, or many, many other reasons. I've come across quite a few gender non-conforming people who were stuck with this label since childhood and given "reparative therapies" even though they weren't what the DSM intends to include in the Gender Dysphoria diagnostics.

It would help if (mental health) practitioners updated to DSM-V but then again there isn't a standard of care for anything in the US. :/

[genderhell]

I don't personally have a problem with the change, gender dysphoria is a term that's been around for a while. Mind you I never really had an issue with the old GID either, it IS a medical condition, so I don't know why people object to it being listed as such.

Isn't "gender dysphoria" a symptom?

A symptom of a suppressed personality in GID people?  That is how I applied those terms to myself.

Is my interpretation correct? Thank you.

[genderhell]

I am simply stating that it isn't for sure not a mental disorder as far as my knowledge thus far in my life time.

I am surprised to hear that cause it would seem so obvious, well to me, that the "new me" is the real me, and the "old me" was not me.

That is why it makes it all so horrible.