Dating girl who I like, or who i'd like to be?

[Melanie_R]

Hi Everyone,

Since this year i've had more time to reflect on my life for the past decade. Took some time to figure out who I am and some events made it clear i wont be happy with continue life as a male like i do now. Had my first coming out around age 13, but my dad couldn't handle it. After his constant proclamations that i looked horrible with makeup and would be living as a freak i got back in the closet ever since with only a few friends knowing about it.

Now about 17 years later, the bubble bursted. One female friend that I trusted and gave me the security to reveal the woman in me, dumped me overnight after knowing her for about 8 years, which caused my secure bubble to burst.  I couldn't keep the trans feelings to myself anymore. That was the moment I came out again to most people around me and started to show myself en-femme to people around me. Not outdoors yet; but indoors only. To my surprise most friends were amazed at the pictures and seeing me in real life.  Most asked who that girl in the picture was and only after a good look they figured it was me. It boosted my self esteem and confidence. I'm trying to become and live more and more as a woman without a defined end goal. I'll just continue as long as it feels good and see where live takes me. I'm done with the years of rationalizing and i just want to feel and live it now. 

That's for the long into. I thought it would be nice to introduce me a bit first, sorry if it's too long.

I'm still attracted to woman, even though I've never had a relation or anything sexual with a girl (or guy).  It feels that I cannot have any sexual relation with a woman until she can perceive me as female.  It struck me that i primarily fall in love with woman that id like to be myself.  Being close to them it feels that i'm trying to live as a girl via them because I couldn't experience it as a female myself.  Instead of being with a girl in a relation as a counterpart, i constantly want to be like the girls I fall in love with.

I find it very confusing. Do I only like girls that i want to be, and be close to them to learn from their behavior and copy it a bit.  Or do I really like them for who they are?  If I can live as the woman I feel i am, would I still be into them as I am now? Or would my dating preference shift if I can really live as a woman and wouldn't need to date my rolemodel?

Is this me, or do (some) of you recognise this? Would love to get your opinion and experience. 

Thanks for being out there.

[Ltl89]

It's possible that you could be attracted to some women because of what they represent.  Still, questions like these are way too complex for anyone to really answer.  This requires some deep though and self reflection in order to discover whether or not this is the case for you.  However, there are plenty of lesbians here and many come from diverse backgrounds, so I do hope you get the feedback you are seeking. 

As a disclaimer, I want everyone to know there is nothing wrong with being a gay transwomen. Sure, you are missing out on men and that sucks for you ( ) but otherwise you're normal.  Don't feel like you need to rationalize your sexuality.  Op, I'm not saying that's what you're doing (I believe you have a well thought out nd valid question about the origins of your sexuality), but I do see some transwomen try to defend their sexuality and find justifications for it.  At the end of the day, we like who we like.  That's all that matters.  Just had to throw that out there because I know there are trans lesbians who struggle with this. 

[FTMDiaries]

I may be on the other side of the fence, but parts of your post certainly resonate with me.

I married a man who looks, sounds and behaves very much how I would've liked to be if I had been born anatomically correct. I've never really thought about it before but now that you mention it, perhaps part of that attraction was because I desired these characteristics in myself. But a lot of people are attracted to other people because they admire some of their characteristics - such as courage, honesty, good sense of humour, etc. - and would like those for themselves. So I don't think we're particularly unusual in that respect; it's just that trans* issues might make us overthink things.

In terms of sexuality, I have absolutely no interest in women whatsoever, and my sexual attraction to men was one of the things that kept me in the closet for so long. I used to torture myself by saying things like: "Well, if I like men, doesn't that mean I really am a woman in spite of how I might feel? Isn't it easier to just remain female so I can attract them more easily?". I honestly did think at the time that it would be easier, but as the years passed I found it more & more difficult to cope with having to take a female role. It got to the point where I simply couldn't stand it any longer, and I just had to accept the fact that it is entirely possible to be gay and trans* and not only is that not the same thing as being straight, it also doesn't have to be more difficult. It just requires some self-acceptance.

One of the reasons why I'm transitioning is because there's no way on Earth I could tolerate another sexual relationship with someone who's attracted to the private parts I currently have and wants to use them in the traditional manner. It makes my skin crawl just to think about it.

[FrancisAnn]

I dated & actually married some women very early in life just to learn their life style. From watching them take a shower, washing their hair, putting on panties, bra's, doing their nails, selecting just the right wardrope each day, shoes, purses & all the things they carried inside, perfume, plucking their eyebrows & some facial hair, skirts, dresses or pants, etc, etc....

You are not alone.

[ZoeM]

As it turns out, the one girlfriend I had was a lot like who I turned out to be. Aside from the flaws in our relationship, and the spots where we still differ, we acted very similar, looked very similar, moved in lockstep at times...

Recently I've been comparing photographs of what she used to look like and what I do now. Suffice to say we are very very similar.

And then I got a boyfriend who looks a bit like I used to look, but is 150% more awesome than male-me ever was. Still kinda uncomfortable at times.

[stephanie203]

And here I thought when I had this HUGE ephinany and figured it all out that it was just me. While it sucks being in this position I am glad to be in such good company and know I'm not alone.

[Jenny07]

Don't worry your not alone in how you feel about this.

I had these exact feelings about my ex wife, while I loved her, I would have loved to be just like her.
It was a very strange feeling and ultimately led to us splitting, oh and her getting pregnant to someone else.

I can relate exactly to what FrancisAnn said as well.

Jen

[airamyb]

I haven't posted here in a long-time, but this topic really strikes at a conflict I've felt for a long-time. For as long as I can remember I've only been attracted to women as romantic partners, but always on some level wanted to be like them. I've never been able to confide in any partner that feeling out of fear.

Its an awfully confusing feeling, one I am still processing.

Amy

[karahayes]

I have a different twist on this topic.  I actually dated another male-to-female preop for nearly two years.  Our relationship ended abruptly six months ago when she said she was leaving me for another m-to-f preop.

I was heartbroken and soon thereafter, went to seek out a gender therapist.  After a couple of sessions, my therapist suggested that I entered into this relationship for the sole reason of living vicariously through my ex-gf.

I believe there is some truth to this although I did love my ex-gf deeply.  Anyway, I think there is some validity into being in a marriage or relationship with a woman whether it be GG or TG for the sole purpose of staying close-to-the-vest with respect to our own gender-dysphoric feelings.

[EmmaS]

I often find envy and lust to be hard to distinguish between, so in that aspect I can relate very well. I'm a college student, so there a ton of obviously attractive girls that go to my University and when I see them several things go through my mind; something along the lines of these statements:

-"That dress is really cute, I want it" (Something along those lines)
-"She is so pretty, I want to be her."
-A very subtle comparison of herself to myself which causes slight sexual interest which I'm unsure of what to classify it as but it's definitely integrated with the "She's so pretty" feeling.

The next point about comparing my sexuality and my gender identity that tends to blur is when I fantasize alone. I find it easier to have pleasure by myself then with a girl to be honest which probably is my first hint. But the fantasy itself helps, which is I essentially would imagine myself as a very attractive female, so I acknowledge her as attractive which causes slight sexual interest, but the major point is that I want to be her and be in her position as well and I have no desire to be in his position at all which in my opinion shows a clear indication of having a "normal" female sexuality.

So I had a really hard time/occasionally struggle with these concepts of envy vs lust, but overall for myself I've figured out that my subconscious desires to be "that" female and to be in her place to the point of severe jealously occasionally, which could cause a slight vicarious feeling of living through another female since I currently can't do it myself.

Maybe my experiences aren't similar to yours at all, but maybe some of it is. I found the best way to understand what was going on in my head was to take my time and really delve deep into what I was feeling and why as well. Hope this gives you another perspective and I wish you the best.

<3 Emma

[Melanie_R]

How wonderful to see so many replies. Feels like a very warm welcome. Took a bit longer to write a reply; but I already read all your replies in the past few days. I really wanted to sit down to reply since you deserve more than one-liners.  I find it hard to get to the point of self reflection in a relation since I never had one.  I don't really fully understand why.  I don't think I'm bad looking (as male and female), got a good professional life and have many friends. It does seem that almost all girls do sense there's something the matter with me but they cannot figure out what it is. Until I tell them and then it all makes perfect sense to them.  And it seems that most girls I like only like the true alpha males.  Which I'm not part of.

I did notice I have a different feeling about girls than my male friends.  Sometimes they see one of my female friends, who are quite good looking, and their first reaction is that they want to 'do' her and in my opinion the blood leaves their brains.  While it doesn't trigger me at all. I can tell a girl is really nice looking, but I don't have any feelings for her until I really get to know her better.  Then i could start to really like her physically as well. But I wouldn't rule out I'm unconsciously blocking any feelings until they know my female side. 

At this moment I feel like I'm stuck between all sides. As male, girls don't seem to fall for me since they feel something is going on that's not normal.  (no matter how macho I tried to behave) and lesbian girls don't seem to fall for me since I'm not a girl yet.  And who knows I'd get into guys when I don't need girls anymore to identify myself. (if that would be the case)

I do agree we just have to go with the flow and just experience it.  But it does feel like I need the experience of a relation to be more solid in my feelings for transitioning.
What FTMDiaries writes; about the private parts I can relate to. It feels confronting to use it or to even see it.  I also do recognize all of you (MtF) in learning from the girls and learn their behavior.  I think ZoeM shows what I've been wondering.  That first she's into a girl , learns her behavior and then once she can be that girl herself she falls for a guy.  @ZoeM: have you been into guys as well before transitioning, or did that change after transitioning? And has your boyfriend always been a heterosexual male?

And I can exactly relate to what EmmaS said!  I have realized this could be the cause for the insecurity that I'm feeling lately.  If I (we) need someone else to live our female feelings through we are so vulnerable there.  Basically, at that moment, an external person can make us start or stop feeling how we want to live.  If that isn't a basis for a feeling of being insecure!

And one other question off topic. I do know multiple CIS girls with eating disorders. I thought it's normal that you just know more people dealing with this issue. But recently I got the impression that it's quite uncommon to know so many people with eating disorders. It struck my mind that it might be because we're dealing with similar issues.  Not that I have an eating disorder; but I think it might be about accepting ones body.  Do you guys/girls notice the same?

[Gina_Z]

When I found out the role of my gender and then went through puberty, I felt cheated. I wanted to be one of THEM. A girl. Over the years I have been attracted to women. I've had a few girlfriends and I've ALWAYS wanted to BE them. I had a serious case of envy. I think that's common for MTFs.