The Second Coming (out...) ~ today!!

[KabitTarah]

TL;DR... my brother in law is coming over for a 2nd coming out (when they come back with the concerns they have now that they didn't when they were in shock before) and I don't know what to expect or how to prepare.

I'm sure some of you have been in a similar situation... I need to know how to prepare for this afternoon (hopefully someone responds in the next couple hours... otherwise I'll just have to report back here later).

So... my sister is really supportive of me, but I haven't really seen or talked with her husband since I came out (via letter & discussion afterward).

Now, he's coming over to my house in about 3 hours to talk. He's being really passive aggressive online (not that we ever really talk there, either). I figure he's either feeling left out (again... I don't really talk to this guy except at family gatherings - and even then...) or he's pissed about something, or just wants to know more (ha?).

I sent an e-mail out a few weeks ago explaining about GLAAD's Purple anti-bullying campaign and why it was important to me. He posted this random status update on Facebook: "Hiding behind letters and emails is a cowardly way to handle issues. If you can't deal with someones response face to face, then your priorities are out of line." I confirmed that it was about me... again - we've had no conversations or responses "face to face" and I really don't understand where he's coming from.

He may also be pissed about a not too pleasant letter I sent to my parents (if he knows about it) after they basically drummed me out of their house with the whole "you're ruining your life, stop now" spiel. That is better now and as cleared up as it could possibly be.

I'm not a great speaker... I'm a writer. I don't respond well to angry conversations and will either get angry myself or walk away... so writing is a much better way for me to show what I'm thinking and feeling. I agree that sometimes face-to-face is better, especially if the (non-hurtful, and not attacking) emotion is important or core to the conversation. I do fine with those sorts of conversations.

[bethany]

I really don't have any advice to offer you, other than to be open and honest with answers to his questions. I do hope that it goes well for you.

Hugs

[Cindi Lane]

Here is a {{{Hug}}} for  you.   I hope to give you strength.

Does your sister have any idea why he "needs" to be face to face vs. the telephone?
   If she is not coming over with him, can you give her a call?

Would it help to set up a discussion area that feels calming to you and places some physical distance between you?
  For example, set the kitchen or breakfast table with a coffee or tea setting and some fruit slices or snacks?

What would help you stay calm in case he sounds angry?  Some people's reaction to something they don't understand will cause them to act and/or sound angry [fear of the unknown].

Would having a copy of your recent letters or writing near you when talking provide an anchor for you to stay calm?

Hoping for the best for you
-Cindi

[LordKAT]

Are you going to be meeting him alone? I hope not.  My spidey sense says be careful.

[JLT1]

Here is a {{{Hug}}} for  you.   I hope to give you strength.

Does your sister have any idea why he "needs" to be face to face vs. the telephone?
   If she is not coming over with him, can you give her a call?

Would it help to set up a discussion area that feels calming to you and places some physical distance between you?
  For example, set the kitchen or breakfast table with a coffee or tea setting and some fruit slices or snacks?

What would help you stay calm in case he sounds angry?  Some people's reaction to something they don't understand will cause them to act and/or sound angry [fear of the unknown].

Would having a copy of your recent letters or writing near you when talking provide an anchor for you to stay calm?

Hoping for the best for you
-Cindi

All of the above plus the suggestion by LordKat plus:

Some people are talkers and some are writers.  I'm a talker, you are a writer.  Yet, we can communicate.  I would very much prefer a face to face conversation over his writing thing as I find writing very difficult.  The problem I have with this is the statement that if you can't say it face to face.....   That can be an aggressive thing, I do not know. 

Suggest you say that you are a writer and not a good talker because in speaking, one can say things you do not mean or that can be misinterpreted. While in writing, you can get down exactly what you mean.  There is time to think.

The rest.  Stand by what and who you are.  Remember to pause, breath and think like you are writing it.  Keep the conversation slow and as far as possible, without emotion.


Good luck and Big Hugs.

Jen

[KabitTarah]

Thanks for the advice. I was only able to read some of it ahead of time - but it didn't matter in the end.

"Nobody" knew he was coming (except for my wife, who he asked not to be here). It wasn't dangerous - I was only slightly worried about that, and not seriously. Next time I will be more wary though.

He came here to tell me off, basically. Not to have a discussion. Apparently that's what face-to-face means. I got mad when he kept talking over me, he denied it, and after that got heated I kicked him out of the house. If you don't want your misinterpretations corrected, don't voice them. Just keep your mouth closed if you just want to insult me: i.e. about the 1st coming out "obviously you were just going from house to house saying whatever's convenient for you at the time" ~ I apparently said I was most worried about him and one other guy... to each other. Well... yeah - they were the two people I was most worried about, mainly because they work together and talk constantly. They were also the two people most likely to take it as a freak-show.

Whatever he wanted to say didn't work... after he left I did break down ~ worse than I think I ever have. That's possibly what he was going for, but the reason was not his goal. Maya Angelou says "there is no greater agony than bearing an untold story inside you," and that's what made me completely distraught. That someone could form a specific opinion, and figure that the rest of my immediate family had also formed that opinion - because they're all talking behind my back... that just puts me in misery.

The funny part... I'm already planning on writing a letter to the family about it. He promised not to read it, but I couldn't care less... just about everyone else will read it... and I can be emotive in a letter. It's not the full range of emotion - but that's clearly a good thing in this case.

[Chaos]

The one thing you have to remember about talking to an aggressive person is that,aggression feeds off aggression.I know this is hard because most people become intimidated and tend to more ball up but the things you have to remember is the nature of the person.1) are they being this way because its an attempt to make you ball up? 2) is it just how they deal with mental/emotional issues and mean no harm? 3) or are they out to harm you physically? once you know those things with that person,then handling the aggressive nature/talking,will be easier.One thing to remember when it comes to number 1 and 2,is to always be calm and remember that *this is what works for them* the more calm you stay,the more it overrides the aggression.So they will tend to relax more,more feel comfortable with you and the point will come when the aggression might even subside all together.So in a sense,give what you want in return.Now if its 3 then i strongly suggest to stay very clear as this kind of person can not be addressed in any way.1 can be alittle harder as they may get alot louder before they calm,you notice them trying to intimidate further but over all,they will calm when they realize that the convo/person at hand,isnt about that or isnt bothered.Some short practice might help and always remember that an aggressive person can change at any moment and you need to handle all types of situations with calm.

[KabitTarah]

The one thing you have to remember about talking to an aggressive person is that,aggression feeds off aggression.I know this is hard because most people become intimidated and tend to more ball up but the things you have to remember is the nature of the person.1) are they being this way because its an attempt to make you ball up? 2) is it just how they deal with mental/emotional issues and mean no harm? 3) or are they out to harm you physically? once you know those things with that person,then handling the aggressive nature/talking,will be easier.One thing to remember when it comes to number 1 and 2,is to always be calm and remember that *this is what works for them* the more calm you stay,the more it overrides the aggression.So they will tend to relax more,more feel comfortable with you and the point will come when the aggression might even subside all together.So in a sense,give what you want in return.Now if its 3 then i strongly suggest to stay very clear as this kind of person can not be addressed in any way.1 can be alittle harder as they may get alot louder before they calm,you notice them trying to intimidate further but over all,they will calm when they realize that the convo/person at hand,isnt about that or isnt bothered.Some short practice might help and always remember that an aggressive person can change at any moment and you need to handle all types of situations with calm.

I totally agree with this, and I know I handled the situation poorly... I just get so fed up with people forcing their PoV down my throat with totally inaccurate statements. The biggest and worst one was that I was actively blaming my parents. I was able to bring up the difference between guilt and blame (I have made every effort to NOT blame them and even to tell them I have no blame and "here's why")... and he still managed to try and use that against me.

I know it's not fair to the hormone... but today REALLY sent me into a SPIRAL... I want my AA's now, not in 2 or more months. How he treated me made me really want to jump right into estrogen too... until I remembered just how well my wife has been treating me and trying to be a friend again (yet another thing he didn't want to listen to...)

[Chaos]

I totally agree with this, and I know I handled the situation poorly... I just get so fed up with people forcing their PoV down my throat with totally inaccurate statements. The biggest and worst one was that I was actively blaming my parents. I was able to bring up the difference between guilt and blame (I have made every effort to NOT blame them and even to tell them I have no blame and "here's why")... and he still managed to try and use that against me.

I know it's not fair to the hormone... but today REALLY sent me into a SPIRAL... I want my AA's now, not in 2 or more months. How he treated me made me really want to jump right into estrogen too... until I remembered just how well my wife has been treating me and trying to be a friend again (yet another thing he didn't want to listen to...)

Sadly with some,that aggressive nature is fueled by other things.For example if intimidation became a near addiction *succeeded for so long* then it can create a very strong mind set that no one can really change but them.My room mate is like this but is far worse then any others i have seen.For so long in his life he was made to believe he was right and pretty much on everything.my good nature only enforced this and over time,it became so deep that even with all the proof in the world,he still would not change this mind set.These kind of people need a real life changing experience in order to get out of the mind set.I agree that its hard and with someone who has blocked ears,a blocked mind,and an abusive nature *aka turning blame,lack of taking responisbility and so on* its best to let them alone and walk away.they will come to you one day.Stay strong

[KabitTarah]

Hopefully I'm in a better state of mind this morning...

The problem is... given his misconceptions and the pain the rest of my family is doubtless going through (not to mention their own individual stresses), I can see where he's coming from. I can't blame him for that.

I can blame him for treating me as his own personal vent for his stress. I can blame him for saying he's coming for a discussion and  arriving to deliver a diatribe instead of with as open a mind as possible (in this situation).

I know I didn't help the situation. I'm good at saying things aren't my fault... but I have a very hard time seeing how I'm to blame in this, except in part. It's funny... I talked with my wife, who claims she's not doing nearly as well as she appears to be... she says that the people who can talk to me have "personalities that don't rock the boat" and that I'm quick to blame others. I think those people have enough cares to set aside their own fears for the future to actually care about me and what I'm going through... and that me blaming others (yeah... it happens... ) is a defensive measure that only happens when I'm being attacked.

I think that people think that a heated emotional argument is more likely to bring out the truth. I think it's the only time you don't see the real me. I could say anything at all if I'm angry. I'm more speculative and less rational.

With my brother's advice, I'm going to let it lie for a time. Hopefully that doesn't just let resentment grow, but I'm good at dropping things, almost as if they never happened. Obviously it will still change how I act around him, and I certainly wouldn't let him come back without an apology, which I would also be happy to give.

[Cindy]

Hi Hon,

Glad it didn't go badly!!!

Funny how other people think that their opinion is of importance. It is your life, your body, your everything.

We are the people who have been born with this burden and we are the people who have to deal with it.

We walk our path and endure the pain. No one has the right to criticize us because it suits their misguided opinion.

Hugs