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Do cocky trans women trigger gatekeeping?

Started by suzifrommd, November 12, 2013, 06:53:31 AM

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oliviapril

be yourself , let your inner self and beauty shine....
good luck
cheers
olivia
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evecrook

I guess I really lucked out with my therapist she's wonderful and caring' I came to her because she was working with the   psychiatrist, Who is also a caring person, I was seeing I thought it was going to be hell getting started, but it worked out. thank god.
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Vicky

I can only go on my own experience as someone who works with newly recovering addicts on a volunteer basis, and who did have to do a limited amount of counseling for personnel issues in my job, but sometimes a cocksure attitude from either gender can seem defensively offensive!!  It can appear that the person is avoiding or hiding feelings or information from the counselor. This can prolong the conversation and make matters rough.  Having been in the counselee's seat for my own recent (5 years sober) recovery effort and now in that of a sponsor's spot I know pretty well when I am getting the fog job, (and admit I pulled it too).  You may need to settle back, take a breath, and be sure you are being honest.  Joking and snarking  are not easily interpreted as honesty.  Calm down a bit and be honest open and smile a bit.  My gender counseling was an offshoot of my addiction recovery, and it was failure of self honesty that had nearly killed me over my GD.  My GT was another recovering addict (still a bonafide MSW therapist) so I had no wiggle room on showing and being honest. 

I am not suggesting you were less than honest with the person, but it is one perception of what could have been there.
I refuse to have a war of wits with a half armed opponent!!

Wiser now about Post Op reality!!
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suzifrommd

Quote from: Vicky on November 13, 2013, 11:21:47 PM
Joking and snarking  are not easily interpreted as honesty.  Calm down a bit and be honest open and smile a bit. 

Oh heavens, when I said cocky, I didn't mean to imply I wasn't taking it seriously or that I wasn't honest. I'm very open and very serious during all my sessions - I'm not someone to make light.

By cocky, I meant that I couldn't really hide that I think I already know what's best for me, and that there's probably not a whole lot anyone will tell me about transgender that I don't already know from reading a zillion posts on Susan's, and dozens of articles and books.

I suppose I could do the classic female thing and PLAY dumb, but that wouldn't be honest or open, right?
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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MiaOhMya!

Sorry to hear about your troubles.

I had a very hard time with my therapist dragging me along with the letter thing. The issue was that she wanted me to go full time before hormones, and I told her that I felt it was pointless and possibly dangerous because dressing like a woman is not the issue here.

It wasn't until I bawled my eyes out about how much PAIN being stuck was causing me day-to-day that she released the letter.

She just wanted to be sure I wasn't going to regret transition, and I understood, but as one person mentioned I did not need her to tell me I was transsexual, as it is the one thing I've always known about myself.

These people are looking for rational, stable thoughts that don't vary or sway. For example, I experienced lots of moments of purging when I was younger....you know I had my stash of clothes, then I'd dump it and repeat. Well, to a therapist or shrink such behaviour in my recent history may come off as an instability in my conviction to transition.

Be sure not to give them reason to doubt you unless, truly, you doubt yourself (in which case gatekeeping is a good thing).
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suzifrommd

Quote from: MiaOhMya! on November 15, 2013, 10:06:37 PM
Be sure not to give them reason to doubt you unless, truly, you doubt yourself (in which case gatekeeping is a good thing).

Well, I DO have doubts. How could I not? I mean I don't REALLY know whether I'll like having a female bottom until I have one. Oh, I can read all the accounts from women who are recently and long-time post-op, hear all about the complications, see the before-and-after pictures, but I really won't know until it happens.

Like HRT and going full-time, I had to take a leap of faith, because I didn't know for sure. Luckily they both turned out to be wonderful changes, but how can I really know?
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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Ms Grace

That's right, how can you know until you know? And you can't know until you've experienced it first hand.
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
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Joanna Dark

well you should know beforehand because it should be such a part of you that it is impossible to deny. I mean I haven't ever been shot but I know I wouldn't like it. I haven't even been with david lyons ( he is soooo hot, right?!!) but I'm certain I'd love him at least physically. Of course, fleeting doubts are healthy if y'all mean that but if it aint fleeting and very seldom, do not transition until you are more certain. That's how gatekeeping started because people who hd doubts and cast them off transitioned and then blew their heads off. Now every trans girl is just confused. I have never had a doubt that lasted more than a couple seconds and rhen I'm like nope there's just too much experience that says this is my only choice. IMO
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MiaOhMya!

Well, I suppose we are all different, and sometimes I forget that. :angel:

Myself, I just always knew from the earliest age that I was female, it was just so strong that it was never something I questioned.  My issue was learning to accept that I couldn't escape it or change who I was. Actually my therapist and I really got at each other because she wanted to spend my sessions diagnosing me as transsexual, but I wanted to spend my sessions dealing with transition stresses and getting on hormones. I already knew I was transsexual, I knew it before I even knew what to call it...if that makes sense?


Do you think you could focus and take on one thing at a time? I mean you don't need to worry about whether or not you will get SRS some day when you haven't tried hormones. Instead just focus on getting things going. Hormones to me were such a revealing experience, and sure enough they let me fell that I was doing the right thing (it was like coming home...which furthermore gave me the confidence to go full time...and here I am today). Right now just take your baby steps forward and you will eventually know.
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suzifrommd

Quote from: Joanna Dark on November 16, 2013, 04:44:06 PM
well you should know beforehand because it should be such a part of you that it is impossible to deny.

I try not to use the words "you" and "should" in the same sentence because it is so hard to know what's right for someone else. I experience my transgender so different from a lot of other women. You and I have talked about this before. I'm not among the "always knew" crowd. It took decades to understand that I was transgender. I tend to be a more deliberate person and think carefully about things. I've been certain about enouch things in my life that turned out to be completely wrong, that I've learned to distrust certainty.

Quote from: Joanna Dark on November 16, 2013, 04:44:06 PM
I haven't even been with david lyons ( he is soooo hot, right?!!) but I'm certain I'd love him at least physically.

Really? Haven't you ever had it happen that you pursued someone, certain they were right for you, and then found you couldn't get along? That you made each other miserable?

Quote from: MiaOhMya! on November 17, 2013, 02:44:58 AM
Do you think you could focus and take on one thing at a time? I mean you don't need to worry about whether or not you will get SRS some day when you haven't tried hormones.

Oh. Didn't mean to imply I hadn't started HRT. I've been on E since Jan. and spiro since May. I've been living full time as a female since June.  I've already placed a deposit down on my surgery date for 6/19/14 and barring any change in my financial or health situations, it will happen.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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KabitTarah

Quote from: suzifrommd on November 17, 2013, 06:25:02 AM
I try not to use the words "you" and "should" in the same sentence because it is so hard to know what's right for someone else. I experience my transgender so different from a lot of other women. You and I have talked about this before. I'm not among the "always knew" crowd. It took decades to understand that I was transgender. I tend to be a more deliberate person and think carefully about things. I've been certain about enouch things in my life that turned out to be completely wrong, that I've learned to distrust certainty.

I like this thought. It's important to realize that we're all different. We can talk about things in two ways: studies and science (social or biological), which aren't always steeped in fact; or personal experiences and feelings, which are unique to each individual (despite where they overlap). I've felt marginalized since day 1 of coming out to others. They are all free to talk about me amongst themselves, but when I talk I get blamed for not considering their point of view. I'm glad we don't have that problem here (much).

(To be clear, this is no comment on Joanna's post... just on what Suzi said in general).
~ Tarah ~

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Tori

Major depression and being "Cocky" about being MTF unlocked any gates I have had thus far.

"I am depressed because my brain is being fed the wrong hormones." I hypothesized.

Fast track to HRT. My only wait was for the blood test results. They came back great, sadly my blood pressure was high, so now I have to take Spiro twice a day to help with that. It seems to help reduce tension and stress. Unfortunately, Spiro reduces testosterone, so I have to take this new hormone, estrogen, to keep my bones healthy (all but one). 3 days in and the morning salute has lost some vigor. I feel touch differently, often the area around what is touching or being touched tingles, nipples are hinting at things to come, complexion is clearing, and I am prone to listening rather than arguing. Discussing rather than opining.

But I digress... I do not yet know if the medication has positively effected my blood pressure. Seems likely though.

Keys: I looked for LGBT friendly counselors and doctors. I told them I was trans before I scheduled my first appointment (I walked in in full boy mode). I told them the truth about my trans nature, and let them know I didn't need their diagnosis to confirm what I already knew. So, in my case, being "Cocky" helped, I simply, "Made no bones about it."

If you have insurance, call LBGT centers near you and ask for referrals. If the referrals don't take your plan, ask THEM for referrals. You don't need to be stuck with one doctor or psychologist. If you do not have insurance, you likely live somewhere outside the USA and are already covered by your government, or you need/qualify for govt. assistance.

You may need to travel a bit to get to the right doc, but if they can give you the perscription you need, you will not need to travel often.

Gate keeping is becoming antiquated. If you encounter a gatekeeper, either bring them up to date or bypass them. You don't need to be FT with the SAME SHRINK for a year, you just need the year and a shrink to sign off. In most any country or state there is at least one Trans Advocate willing to vouch for you. Finding them is not that hard. Contacting them is free.


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Zumbagirl

Quote from: suzifrommd on November 17, 2013, 06:25:02 AM
I try not to use the words "you" and "should" in the same sentence because it is so hard to know what's right for someone else. I experience my transgender so different from a lot of other women. You and I have talked about this before. I'm not among the "always knew" crowd. It took decades to understand that I was transgender. I tend to be a more deliberate person and think carefully about things. I've been certain about enouch things in my life that turned out to be completely wrong, that I've learned to distrust certainty.


I think those words are great and I try to live by this myself. I am in no position to tell someone else what may or may not make then happy. That's why I try and avoid topics like "is srs for me" or "is ffs for me" or "is transitioning for me". If one doesn't know then how the heck am I supposed to know a complete stranger from thousands of miles away on a computer screen.

One thing I learned when I was in Montreal getting my surgery is the myriad paths that people took to arrive at the same spot and on the same day as me. None of us led identical lives. We were all completely different. What we did have in common is the realization of who were and it was all being resolved at the same time by the same doctor. That was it. We shared an OP and nothing more.

I always preface statements, like the one I am about to make with: what I will say next applies to me and only me. I only know when it was my turn, I just did whatever it was that was asked of me. I had a therapist that wanted me to do a session a week for the entire year of RLE. I wanted that surgery so badly, that I just jumped up and down and did whatever it was that they asked of me. If my endo wanted 5 tubes of blood every year, I gave him what he wanted.

I worried about many of the same things you and everyone else does. What if I was what "they" thought was NOT the right candidate for surgery? What if they said no, then what? I was so afraid they would say no, that I self-medicated because I felt I needed to "prove" that I was right for this, even though I had only lived an insignificant fraction of my life in my target gender.

My personal experiences is that they were not gatekeepers. When my RLE was rolling around my therapist was a great person for me to pitch ideas to of what my approach would be, and to help me come up with the words. That wasn't gatekeeping that was genuine help. As I lived through my RLE and landed back on my feet, I used sessions to talk about other things, sometimes things having nothing to do with my transition but were important to me. None of that I felt was gatekeeping. At the end of my RLE I asked for a letter and she said she would be honored to write it for me. Shortly after that, I felt and I'm sure that my therapist did as well, that my boat set sail and was doing okay so therapy was not needed anymore. After I had the letters I thought, well this is it, I'm on my own now. Even when I did my second letter and the psychiatrist said to me..I am going to give you this as a diagnosis (hypomania I think). I was like okay. What else could I say? I took my letter and walked away never to be seen again.

The therapy helped me to deal with legal aspects of the transition, the social changes I was living through and most of all to me, dealing with some childhood trauma I had been living with. In the end I felt that by being 100% honest with my therapist I felt much better. We talked through everything, in fact we talked many things to death, but it was all good.

The day after my surgery, I looked back and thought about how the h*ll did I make it this far? It was nothing short of a miracle and tons and tons of personal sacrifice. But all of the standards, all of the therapy, everything faded into complete insignificance in that moment. It just didn't seem like a big deal anymore. I had proved my readiness by living several years in my new gender (of my own doing as well). When it came time for me to do surgery I was very methodical. I planned everything twice, maybe thrice, before committing to anything. But that's me. A 90% outcome wouldn't do. I wanted to shoot for 100% outcome and would settle for 90% if that's the best I could get.

I do hope you reach your goals and in the manner you wish. Again all I can say is I never felt like my time with the world of therapy was ever adversarial. Some times therapists want to ask questions and for good reasons too. I tried to keep my eye on the prize and not let myself be distracted. Like I said, the day after surgery, it's not like anyone could say no, I was done and that was that :)
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suzifrommd

Quote from: Zumbagirl on November 17, 2013, 07:24:17 PM
Again all I can say is I never felt like my time with the world of therapy was ever adversarial.

No, my therapist and I have a great relationship. After this happened she told me she would write me a letter ASAP and wouldn't stand in my way. The problem is that I need two letters and the guy I went to see was for the second letter. I wasn't asking him for therapy, just to evaluate me and and to write a letter to my surgeon.

Yes, if I felt he was giving me constructive suggestions, that would have been a different story. Things like "Well, in my experience, post surgical adjustment is far harder when you're experiencing marital problems. Have you considered waiting until yours are solved before surgery."

But that wasn't what he said. He said he wasn't ready to write a letter for me. He did not accompany it with any advice or feedback, just lame explanations of why he wasn't comfortable writing a letter.

Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
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MiaOhMya!

Quote from:  suzifrommdOh. Didn't mean to imply I hadn't started HRT. I've been on E since Jan. and spiro since May. I've been living full time as a female since June.  I've already placed a deposit down on my surgery date for 6/19/14 and barring any change in my financial or health situations, it will happen.

Yayyy, that's great news and I am so happy for you! Now is right about the time then you will start experiencing your bigger changes, and for me the changes seem to continue even today (three years later...and ESPECIALLY the mental changes sheesh are they huge!)

In my experience doctors and therapists, in the end, use one big factor to make decisions about treatment: the CYOA method (cover your own a$$).

I have seen time and again where medical professionals won't even touch certain cases. I've spoken with endocrinologists who are wary of treating transsexuals due to 1) a perceived lack of a condition to treat and 2) their own lack of experience in administering hormones to transsexuals. They view the whole thing as a liability.

Therapists and Psychiatrists are the same way, and yea its really frustrating when we're the ones who are on the receiving end of that gatekeeper mentality. Nowadays I've just learned how these things take time, horrible annoying time, and that trans people have to learn to be some of the most patient people on Earth.
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Katie

I ignored what is called gatekeepers. First I never went to a therapist except two days prior to srs where I told him I though it was a joke to be talking to him.

Second when I went to the doctor the first time for hormones I did my homework and I went in there presenting a woman and guess what...... I got my script.

So essentially I had no gatekeepers.

Katie
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Miyah48

Quote from: Katie on November 12, 2013, 10:03:30 AM
I never went to a therapist. I didn't need to pay someone to agree with me on a topic I was already aware of.


Hahahahaha! brilliant quote. Ive had many many many hours of therapy and sometimes i sort of felt this way.

And OP i know what you mean. Psychologists think they know a lot (which they do) but not everything. I relate this to something that happened to me. About two years ago I had to go to rehab and they gave us these straight out of school therapists who knew nothing about drugs and addiction. So the whole rehab had a therapist revolt. we decided we would not talk to anyone until they gave us someone like us. A addict. someone that knew the emotional destruction we caused. The straight out of school guys were to new. hadnt heard done felt or seen the massive amount of things we did. so therefore even if you knew the effect on the brain. You never truly understood it.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication
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evecrook

It does help to know what your talking about
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