Post op Clocking Based on Genitals?

[MiaOhMya!]

If a man was to clock you it would most likely be based on some other factor than a finger in a dimly lit room. I think you should not be too worried about this incident and keep on soldiering forward with your new sex life!

Doctorwho: how did you "used" to be intersexed? edit: meaning just cosmetic? I realise that may be too private sorry.

[Adam (birkin)]

I read a story once (by a major douchebag, but I suppose that is not relevant) and he was asking his friends how he could know if he slept with a post-op trans girl. They asked him if she was able to self-lubricate, because apparently if she said she didn't and needed lube, that meant she was not cisgender. So when I read your story, that's the first thing that popped into my mind. I think if he clocked you for anything, it would be based on that. But there's also the possibility he was leaving over something else.

[Jenna Marie]

Of course, plenty of cis women don't self-lubricate enough for sex without some help... and some trans women do. (Doesn't mean that's not the assumption this guy made, just that if so, he'd ironically be right for the wrong reason.)

[Doctorwho?]

Doctorwho: how did you "used" to be intersexed? edit: meaning just cosmetic? I realise that may be too private sorry.

Some would contend that I'm playing with words. Technically I remain karotypically intersex just as an MtF technically remains karotypically male. However - and it is a very big however, if you believe that transition or genital surgery has any value then you presumably must also believe that you don't in fact remain what you once were... The whole idea of transition is of transformation so that you cease to be what you once were just as a baby ceases to be a baby through the process of growing up.

It is therefore my perception that whether you have been trans, intersex or whatever, there comes a point when the processes that you have been though and the experience of your life means that these terms no longer adequately describe you - they cease to have useful relevance because you no longer experience those things.

At this point I would argue that continuing to wear the label is actually serving to confuse more than it will clarify. For example I had my surgery nearly 30 years ago but somebody hearing me use the term trans or intersex may assume that I am still in that place, and may therefore expect a whole bunch of things about me that simply are not the case any longer. So while I may not be truly cis, I am not entirely trans or intersex either.

The upshot is as there isn't a term that will fit 100% therefore I choose the one which seems closest... The facts are of my 50+ years of life I originally "transitioned" aged 5 thanks to a highly progressive, if slightly eccentric, mother. I spent about 14 years as an androgynous "almost" girl... Following a very late and only partial puberty, I then experimented with being a very soft male for about 5 years before retransitioning to female including genital surgery which I have been for around 30 years... At no time did I experience much in the way of dysphoria, depresssion, or distress.

The final irony was that only when I was post surgery did I finally discover that I was in fact partial androgen insensitive. I have thankfully never had to see a therapist. My treatment was pretty much on demand. None of this fits any classical narrative, so I'm left with choosing my own label, and as I have experienced none of the distress that the other conditions often seem to cause, I tend to identify as cis. Yes I know it isn't entirely right... but none of the other labels fits either. Now as it is a central tenet of this site, and community, that people should have the right to "self identify" I am merely claiming my right to do just that, while not denying that I have a rather complicated atypical past.

However I feel we are drifting off topic so if you don't mind I'll leave it there... but perhaps I'll leave you with this ironic thought: Cis people, on hearing my story, seldom question my self definition, while some trans people seem to have huge difficulties with the idea that transition might actually mean one ceases to be what one once was.

[Just Shelly]

I can entirely relate with this....one reason I find it hard to define myself as trans.

When starting to transition I though I would just be another transgendered women (or the dreaded word transsexual) never did I think I would look, act, sound and definitely feel like a normal women. Something happened in my little over 2 years of FT....I became  a woman!!!

You may have had some biological reasons for feeling the same....and maybe I do as well......and the 5 years of HRT I am sure plays a part....but by far the most significant things that made me a woman, was society. I am not longer that other gender and it almost (not quite 100%) feels as if I was this gender for most of my life. I do think the fact that you had transitioned so long ago does make a difference.

I will say that the only time my gender issues arise are in trying to date....I am pre-op!! I don't think its too common for a woman to have a penis!!! This brings with it a whole new set of problems!!

[boddi]

Ice Phoenix: I do think it is unlikely that he would have clocked you through your vagina alone.  Not all people have discernible  scars but even those that do could have had episiotomy.  I think IF anyone is clocked, it usually is not about the vagina.  I do disagree with Dr Who: I think our vaginas are completely within the range of normal female genitals.  Natal women have great variation, too.    I do agree with the point, however, that certain medical staff may feign surprise when learning we are trans, mostly out of respect and/or not knowing how else to react.  BUT if this is the case, I think, unless a highly skilled gyno, they are not going to clock you on vagina alone.  And even if they do 'perceive' a difference, there can be no absolute way for them to know one way or another.  Lack of cervix does not equal trans.   

  Very annoyingly, the masses seem to have this notion of all trans people needing lubricant for sex.  This is notwithstanding the fact that lots of natal females do too!   Very unfair.  And if you get some douchebag man who believes everything he reads then he will instantly assume you are trans just because you need lube!  Of course this will not necessarily be the case.  I happen to know lots of natal women who need lube for sex, and they are all young!   Lots of ciswomen are tight and feel shallower than others.   So you just have to forget about all this.  There was, in fact, a similar posting on here to yours a while back; I'm sure you'll find it if you look back.   

  So yes: basically I believe IF he clocked you (he may not have) it would not have been due to your vagina.  Perhaps it was another reason.      I actually thought, as someone else has said here, that he may have thought you a virgin.   Can you not contact him and casually find out what he thought to put your mind at rest?

[Doctorwho?]

I do disagree with Dr Who: I think our vaginas are completely within the range of normal female genitals.  Natal women have great variation, too.

yes - but not to the point of Batholin glands and Skenes glands being completely absent I fear... now yes you do have to be something of an anatomist to see that and I don't think most people would notice - but on a point of purely factual information while they may appear with the normal range - they are in fact not, if looked at in extreme close up - which is all I have been repeatedly saying actually.

Unfortunately this is a solid medical fact and not really therefore a matter of much potential debate.

[lovelessheart]

doctor who: i guess its safe to say that your 'facts' were not asked for. ultimatly, it coils down to everyone is different. you would have to suspect it from a different reason before you suspect that someones vagina was not genetically made. this info is coming from a student of psychology.   

[Tristan]

wow. a lot of debate going on. i think if he doesn't want to be with you hos loss. that goes for any guy. i would tell him ,"move along. i have other applicants to be my boyfriend "
and as far as all the sex talk. sex is sex. just work with what you got

[MiaOhMya!]

Well the appearance of glands could even be added if one were so inclined, however such glands are not visible without labia spread; even then only in proper lighting conditions. If anyone is looking so close then they may as well deserve to know the truth.

Doctor Who (I am very much looking forward to the next doctor!) that is an interesting point about labels over time as I am reaching a period in my life where trans applies by definition only.

[boddi]

MiaOhMya!: Interesting...So we could simulate the appearance of these glands, could we?  How?  With make-up? Or surgery?    And Dr Who: yes, I know you are right, but I am saying that, as you concede, generally we look the same as a natal female.   And generally we are well within the range. So nowt to fear, I say!

[musicofthenight]

I feel like I'm missing the point. 

Way I see it, if my lady needs to hide her SRS from me, I haven't done enough to make her feel safe with me.  And even if that isn't my fault, I'd want to do better.

I think I can try and grasp that life before transition might be best left alone, but I the level of stealth sought here bewildering, even heartbreaking.

[Xhianil]

Maybe HE was a virgin? Or just scared of you (some guys get scared of pretty girls), or maybe he's a self denying gay, or pretty much a infinite amount of things that are possable.

As for wether or not he looked down there, i doubt it, most guys don't even like foreplay and "dive" right in the first chance they get.

[Dahlia]

Maybe HE was a virgin? Or just scared of you (some guys get scared of pretty girls), or maybe he's a self denying gay, or pretty much a infinite amount of things that are possable.

As for wether or not he looked down there, i doubt it, most guys don't even like foreplay and "dive" right in the first chance they get.

Or a Tlover who clocked you waaay before....and dissapointed because you turned out to be post op.

[Mirian]

Icephoenyx,
I really understand your paranoia (ok since mine came out a mess but it's another topic)
But can you still life with this doubt ?
I don't want to sound too crude, but objectively, yes, it could even be that he suspected something from
the appearance of your genitals. It's hard for us to judge, without knowing what they look like. It's not so
much a matter of what surgeon made your work. I agree genetic vulvae largely vary between individuals,
but if one does present some feature(s) ways too off the average, then an experienced man could detect
something strange, expecially when he starts doing things like fingering and so on.
Please don't feel offended by my words, I'm just trying to help you understainding the truth. You might
also think to take some shots of your genitals and post them somewhere for us to tell you our opinion,
or even here (I don't know whether it is allowed or not ?) Or you could even post them privately to
somebody you really trust, asking her to be as honest as she can.
Another option for you could be to investigate together with another boy (if any) who enjoys making love
with you instead and who never suspected anything: then you could start talking with him of your bad experience, ONLY of course if you know he doesn't get annoied by you telling him of having had sex with another guy, something sounding like "Do you actually enjoy sex with me ? Since my old boyfriend, that bad
guy, didn't like my genitals at all... and I didn't like theirs of course, it looked really like a long crooked stick"
or such. It's to you to find the best words...

[Dahlia]

of course, it looked really like a long crooked stick"
or such. It's to you to find the best words...

Telling him something like that will make him insecure about the shape and size of his penis.....that can make him think 'but what does she really think of mine?'

It's a bit crude, isn't it?

[Missy~rmdlm]

I have to say, there is a specific difference I have noted when with a post-op. The trimmed corpora cavernosa may be more apparent under the skin than anything a cis woman presents when aroused.
Just stating the most obvious thing I could determine blindfolded.

[Mirian]

Telling him something like that will make him insecure about the shape and size of his penis.....that can make him think 'but what does she really think of mine?'

'that mine is fine instead, since I neither criticized her nor I escaped from bed so I shouldn't worry of her critics'
Ok, it was just for saying

[Mirian]

I have to say, there is a specific difference I have noted when with a post-op. The trimmed corpora cavernosa may be more apparent under the skin than anything a cis woman presents when aroused.
Just stating the most obvious thing I could determine blindfolded.

I have to say that those surgeons who fail to remove the corpora cavernosa TO THE BONE should definitely go searching
another job, not SRS. Why am I telling that ? Cos my surgeon made such a disaster (as I explained in another post)
and I will have to fix this issue also. And from what I read, heard and seen, he was not the only one doing that.
I have read enough med publications now... residuals of erectile tissue (corpora spongiosa and cavernosa) is one of
the most frequent reasons for a revision surgery. Bad thing...

[Northern Jane]

My surgery was very early (1974), not long after Dr. Biber first started his practice in Colorado, and is not nearly as refined as today's surgeries. Dr. Biber's objective was to enable me to have as enjoyable a sex life as possible and he  succeeded in spades!

When I was young and dating young men who didn't have a lot of first hand knowledge of female anatomy, it wasn't an issue. (They had other things on their mind LOL!). Only once did a guy ever comment on me being "a little different" and asked what happened and that was "the morning after".

Later in life when I was dating men who had been married or had a lot more sexual experience, I simply told them before hand that I had had surgery and was a little "different" down there. Usually that was sufficient and no more was said.

Would I have surgery to look more "normal"? Hell no! Everything works fine!!! I have great sensitivity, more than GGs based on discussions with my closest friends, and I sure wouldn't want to loose that! I orgasm easily and often and natural lubrication is almost always sufficient if not more than sufficient! I will never be identical to those born female and even if I was completely and utterly indistinguishable, I would always know I didn't start out that way so it would just be an exercise in vanity.