SRS with the NHS - UK

[crowcrow223]

I was thinking if any of you gals have gone through the NHS' process of getting SRS, I don't know how it looks at all, I've been re-directed by my local surgery, to I believe a psychologist, in my town, and I was wondering what happens next, how long do You have to wait, what's the postcode lottery (I've heard sth about it), is it possible for NHS to fund a thai designer vagina or am I doomed for Bellringer?
Thanks very much for ALL information
xx

[Flan]

No NHS does not cover overseas surgeons.

[crowcrow223]

That actually hasn't crossed my mind at all.. *i'm officialy depressed now*

[Doctorwho?]

That actually hasn't crossed my mind at all.. *i'm officialy depressed now*

Please don't be daft!

Sorry I don't mean to be offensive but really? You don't want to believe all the negative crap you read and hear. Thai surgeons are good - but our Uk surgeons are also good. I know Mr Bellringer, he is now technically a professional medical colleague. EVERY surgeon has the occasional glitch, and if you are the unlucky one to whom it happens of course its a disaster, and you are going to tell everyone! And if you doubt me just look at some of the threads on the forum about Supporn's failures. There are many, not all results end up looking as they should, and not all end up functional on the first go... that's just how it is.

However I know Mr Bellringer to be a conscientious, skillful, and dedicated surgeon. I've seen him working, and I've seen his results, both personally and in others. He is NOT a second rate choice. In fact a few years ago he became my first choice when I needed a little improvement to a very old result.

Back in the very dim and distant past, probably before you were even born, I had SRS on account of an unresolved intersex condition. I was partially androgen insensitive. I lived with that functional but uninspiring result for over 25 years before Mr Bellringer very skillfully reconstructed it to a beautiful appearance which is wonderfully sensitive and well within normal appearance (although as I have observed elsewhere no trans surgeon can produce anatomical perfection, they're very good, just not perfect because of course they are surgery and not biology.)

Anyway I digress - my point is I'm now a medical student, I know my stuff, and you can take it from me that the results Mr Bellringer, at his best, can produce are every bit as good if not better than any Thai. In fact, because he is uk based, in the unlikely event that you do have complications, you are far less likely to suffer serious harm because he will fix it, and you wont have to fly half way round the world for him to do so.

Finally you do have the option of going to see Philip Thomas on the NHS - I have no knowledge of him, but I hear he is also very good. Bottom line is you will actually GET srs. Many people including my very dear friend on this forum Janet, have had to wait for decades because they live in the USA and they cant afford it... so actually you are one of the lucky ones, and you really have no reason to be depressed.

[awilliams124]

I can't claim to have the intimate knowledge of Mr Bellringer's work (yet) that Doctorwho has, but I can say that two of my friends had surgery with him this year and they are delighted with results. Not just pleased, delighted! Both have recovered very quickly too.

I don't wish to get into a debate about the pros and cons of various surgeons as it seems to have been done to death on various sites. However, I do think it is such a shame that the UK surgeons seem to have such a poor online reputation when most people I speak to have had very positive things to say about their real life experience.

[GendrKweer]

I would agree that personal surgeon choice aside, you are lucky to live in a country where SRS is taken seriously and that will cover it as a part of national health care needs. So don't despair!

[divineintervention]

I'm actually considering to go with a UK doctor as I am currently studying here. Is it possible to go private for the SRSurgeons in the UK?

  Thanks!

[Doctorwho?]

I'm actually considering to go with a UK doctor as I am currently studying here. Is it possible to go private for the SRSurgeons in the UK?

  Thanks!

Yes

Both James Bellringer and Philip Thomas accept private patients and at very reasonable costs too. They are both good surgeons.

I don't know if Mr Thomas has a website but JB has this one and can be easily contacted via it http://www.bellringers.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/index.html

[crowcrow223]

First of all - thanks to all of You who took their time to share your knowledge and experience, especially You doctorwho - I loved reading your point from a medical perspective.

I didn't mean to sound disrespectful or ungrateful, I am fully aware of how fortunate I am to actually get a SRS for free, and have actually a good result without having to travel down under... but maybe I should give Bellringer a go? I've read some unpleasant reviews of his srs, one being him rushing the surgery into total of 2,5 hours, whereas Suporn can take up to 6 hours, and also it seems to be every trans-forum's chant to sing praises to Suporn or Chettawut, but most of it is rather "I've heard that.." "a friend of mine said that.." "everyone says.." type of thing. It's actually so hard to compare them two, as one would have to have undergone SRS two times to potentially compare them, which obviously is impossible.

Having SRS with Bellringer would also speed up the process of me feeling complete and content with what I have, as saving ever-so-increasing Suporn's prices (I've actually researched lately all the UK/Thai surgeons and I was stunned to find out his price of SRS has nearly DOUBLED since 2004 from 6 grant till now 11!)

[GendrKweer]

Dr Suporn's price is significantly higher than 11 grand (ask me how i know:) Plus a month in the hotel (about 1500 USD) plus a month of food (500 USD) plus a plane ticket or two (2000USD).... BUT for me at least, worth every penny.

[crowcrow223]

I will have to think about it, seriously... Too bad it's one of those decisions which You can't reverse *oops, should have ordered thai this time!*

GendrKweer, are You UK-based? if so, what made you go to Suporn instead of good old Bellringer?

[Jenna Marie]

(I can't speak to whether Bellringer is rushing - he might be, that might be too fast for his normal pace - but Brassard manages in 2.5 hours and that's one reason I went with him, b/c less time under anesthesia = less risk. He still gets fantastic results, so speed doesn't *necessarily* mean rushed and a poor job. Of course, Brassard also works with a team, including a partnered doctor...)

[Nicolette]

I think someone's confusing £s and $s here.

Well, I had the choice of going to Bellringer or Thomas. I chose Brassard, for personal reasons.

[GendrKweer]

Ah, yes I might have confused the dollars and pounds. My hotel/airfare/meal figures added on are accurate, however, and raise the price by a good 3-4000 USD / 1800-2500 pounds sterling. 

And no, I am central european based, not UK. I could have gone anywhere, though, and chose Suporn after visiting a few docs in person. Suporn and his clinic and technique etc just came out the winner. My results have been great, and I just returned from a revision (cosmetic only) done without question and for free.

[Doctorwho?]

But if you look at this forum and other you can also find people who went to Supporn who had total stenosis (their vagina closed up), who had poor sensitivity, unnatural appearance, you name it you can find it... WHICH IS NOT to say that Supporn is a bad surgeon - clearly he isn't but he isn't a God either. He too will have his poster girls and his off days.

Now to the point about rushing because I heard that load of old cobblers one time too many now!

First the less time you spend under anesthetic the faster you will recover. When people very occasionally die during an operation its quite often the anesthetic, and their bodies inability to cope with it, more than anything else, which contributes. So to have a fast surgeon is not necessarily a bad thing...

Now if you drive round a racing track you might manage to do so at a hundred miles an hour or so - however if you get a racing driver their additional skill will enable them to do the same circuit at much higher speed. Bellringer does work fast, but he is also a very skilled man - so don't confuse slowness with excellence or speed with lack of skill. It may be that Supporn manages more precision, but to be honest I've not personally seen any evidence which would convince me, and don't forget I am living with a "Bellringer enhanced" result myself.

Oh yes and Bellringer also has a team - as does almost every surgeon. For something like SRS they will all be highly skilled. Even as a medical student I have already had the opportunity to "assist" with some rather simpler procedures.

Please don't be put off by the small number of rather vocal moaners - my advice is before you turn your back on the UK offering and, to my mind, waste a lot of money on surgeons who I really don't think are any better than the home team, at least talk to the Uk surgeons, and see what you feel then.

[LauraGirl]

But if you look at this forum and other you can also find people who went to Supporn who had total stenosis (their vagina closed up), who had poor sensitivity, unnatural appearance, you name it you can find it... WHICH IS NOT to say that Supporn is a bad surgeon - clearly he isn't but he isn't a God either. He too will have his poster girls and his off days.

Dear med student,

Suporn is God. During my stay I've meet 6 british girls who came to have their SRS with dr Suporn. Why? Ask them but it is quite clear they were not very happy with the UK SRS surgeons, who are using an old technique, called penile inversion vaginoplasty.
Closing up of the vagina is due to bad dilation habits. It is not Suporn's fault. If you are not happy with the appearance you can get a free revision. Anyway, why would you as a med student trust very dodgy forum messages that don't make any sense. Some understanding of how to dilate after a SRS with dr suporn would make you understand the negative messages a bit better.
As a med student you should try to rely upon evidence, not upon unverifiable testimonials.
My last remark: please don't mention in every posting you are a med student. Some of us are qualified specialists but they don't have the need to mention that in every message. You are still a med student, not a qualified physician, hence you don't have a clue how physicians work.

Dr Laura, qualified consultant paediatric hepatology and gastroenterology

[Doctorwho?]

Laura - you miss my motive I fear - I do not mention that in every post in order to boast but merely to make it clear that I am not yet fully qualified and hence NOT giving formal advice, but rather am speaking from my own personal experience.

As regards the rest lets just say we should probably agree to differ. Suffice it to say I do have rather more experience of this than I am declaring and than you probably realise. As it happens I know a fair bit about penile inversion and peno-scrotal techniques, having myself been a very early prototype of the latter technique and NOT the former - so your suggestion that all UK surgeons only use penile inversion was demonstrably untrue around 30 years ago, and presumably is still untrue now.

In any case my point really was precisely that most people only rely on hearsay when forming their opinions good or bad. Very few have direct experience or contact with the people whose experiences they speak of. For various reasons that I am NOT prepared to declare here I do know, and have had direct contact with several satisfied and dissatisfied customers of several surgeons, including Dr Suporn. In no way was my post hostile to him, or indeed those who choose to go to him. I merely would like to redress the balance a little for our UK surgeons whom I feel often get a rather unfair press.

By all means please hold and express your view, but please do not attack me when I seek to express mine, in a reasonable and measured way, and indeed point out, as I do meticulously, in every post, that while I do have a little knowledge, it is not definitive.

I may not be fully qualified, but at over 50 years of age, and with a long and distinguished career, in a related field, already behind me I do, as it happens, actually have a fair idea how physicians work. Therefore I find your level of almost vitriol and hostility to be somewhat surprising and disappointing. I have no wish to quarrel with anyone here.

[Ms. OBrien CVT]

Ladies,

Lets not turn this into some other than an expression of views.

@Dr. Laura:  I am glad we have a doctor on the forum.  But I do think that you misunderstood Doctorwho.  She is a long time post op, for an intersexed condition.  She is also a medical student, and whenever she states her opinion on a medical issue she states that so that no one should take it as medical advise.

@Doctorwho: Some people think Suporn is a god.  He might be one of the top surgeons for SRS, but I do know that the UK Doctors are just as good.

[Susan T]

I'm not going to run down Bellringer, but the UK NHS method for SRS is no longer cutting edge in terms of depth and sensitivity. There are some important differences between the two in terms ot the type of skin used and the way that the  glans is utilised. The extra time for surgery is largely due to the preparation of free grafts in the Thai method whereas the uk method uses pedicled flaps that retain their blood supply. The pedicled flaps stand less chance of necrosis but on the other hand leaves far less skin for additional depth or finer external features. It really is up to the individual as to where their priorities lie.
I always find the championing of Suporn to be amazing. He is a wonderful surgeon but only one of a number of excellent surgeons in Thailand and the rest of the world who are on the cutting edge of this type of surgery. His technique is no longer very different to that of Chettawutt, Preecha and others and he now charges "Hollywood" prices based sloely upon his PR machine. I would advise anybody seeking surgery to look at the their prospective surgeons technique, success rate and then last of all cost, before making any decision. I would also stress that there is no technique that is undetectable under close examination. Some are better than others but providing the technique produces reasonable cosmetics, good sensation and sufficient depth then it should be considered.  Remember your vulva is not on display 24/7 and even if you do have a male partner they will rarely inspect you that closely. To be honest most wouldn't know the difference anyway.

[crowcrow223]

You know what? You're right, every surgeon has worse and better results, my friend herself had issues with Chett's vaginoplasty, plus at the end of the day Bellringer is pretty much the best surgeon in Europe, people from US consider to pay him full price just to have the surgery with him, plus for me it wouldn't cost a thing, apart from maybe a month off work (don't mind that tbh haha), stress and ticket to london... I think I'll go with him and hope for the best... In case anything goes wrong, I'm one hour drive from London and in the worst case scenario - I can then go to Thailand, for Suporn to fix my v-jay.

Thanks doctorwho SO much!