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Looking for some advice.

Started by Ginny, December 24, 2013, 11:13:23 AM

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Ginny

To give you a little bit of a background on me. I am 5'7" 118lb and from comments from other people am 'a handsome young man'. My top qualities would be my organizing and analyzing abilities and have always been good at athletics. I also have a tendency to over-analyze topics. I am 27 years old and probably first started wondering what it would be like to be the opposite sex around the time Aladdin came out and I always wanted my first wish to be a girl.  Years later as a teenager I saw this fantastic anime series called Ranma 1/2 and I searched to see if there really was some sort of cursed Chinese training ground that could make me a girl (I figured I'd just avoid hot water after that).  In the interim periods I was buried deep in schoolwork and never really thought about being a woman except on occasion when it would just pop into my head.  I never really researched the topic because I thought it was "fantasy" and there wasn't a way to become a woman. The first time I heard the word transsexual I'm pretty sure I thought of ->-bleeped-<-/drag queen, which didn't interest me. About two and a half years ago I read an article about a transsexual in the news and realized it wasn't what I thought it was. After further research I couldn't believe that this option had been available for such a long time.  I tried coming out about a year and a half ago and then got really scarred and told the person that it was something to due to my diet and my mind had been off. However the thought kept coming to the top of my head gradually and then more frequently until about October. At this point I was having a hard time getting up out of bed and probably suffering from some sort of depression.  I decided to start dressing and acting more feminine and my mood improved. Most recently I've scheduled HRT to begin in January and have felt much more alive and giddy.

This brings us to now.  I've been seeing a therapist and it seems like I'm pretty much taking the lead and that she is just taking ques from me.  Is this normal?  I've come out to my immediate family and they all seem for the most part supportive (at least they've told me they would be supportive, even if they may not agree with my decision). I came out this past Sunday to my dad and thought it was going pretty well until I received an email last night. I struggled to go to sleep after it and felt very sad/conflicted/confused.

To sum the email up.  All he hears from anyone he meets is "what a good looking young man" I am, and how I have a great voice as is.  It goes on to say that I think and am analytical like a man, and that I have no dominant feminine characteristics. He thinks that its ok to have feminine qualities, but that I'm trying to force something that isn't there.
(I am about to graduate in May with my second B.S in EET, my first is in biology and I work in a hospital which is horrid to work in) He goes on to state that such a drastic measure will severely limit my career and create many stressful situations in the future. "Whether right or wrong, transforming the body is looked down upon by the majority and will limit your options going forward. You are at a critical junction in your life and taking this decision will make the road very difficult."

He has asked me to cancel both my flight to California for HRT and my appointment, stop trying to manipulate my voice, concentrate 100% on school/job, get my house prepared to sell, and keep ALL my career choices open. After this request he states that I need to continue forward without any added complications and see what life will bring.  He stated his concern about how I am more comfortable being by myself and avoiding social situations and spend too much time in fantasy games (where I portray myself as female). "It is OK to fantasize about all kinds of scenarios, you just need to make sure to ground them against the norm. You owe yourself the chance to have a normal social life (i.e. get out of the house) in a new area without all the pressure you are putting on yourself.  Once you have more time on your hand, get out and experiment with the feelings you are having.  This can easily be done without changing your body or voice."You have worked too hard to jump right into another up-hill battle.  I wish you would have felt comfortable talking about this with me in the past, but I want to make sure we keep an open dialog going forward.  Please do yourself a VERY BIG FAVOR and put the appointment on hold and stay with your wonderful voice for now."

It then ends and asks me to call him.  To be honest I teared up after reading it and had a hard time getting to sleep because I was trying to figure out if I was really a woman or if I've just been fantasizing about being a woman.  As I type this out I'm still tearing up.  He seemed so understanding when I told him and his facial expressions never indicated surprise or disapproval.  But now I feel like he may be supportive, but really doesn't want me going forward and his requests felt to me more like demands.  I knew from the beginning that my career would be my biggest hurdle to face. I could deal with others not agreeing with me, so long as I had a way to support myself. Is it better to transition from in the middle of a job, or to already be somewhat feminine when you start so that it doesn't seem so awkward?

I would much appreciate any advice on how I should respond to my dad, as I haven't got the nerves to call him back at this point without continuously having that sobbing voice come out. Oh, and something I forgot to add is that I've never really correlated personality traits with male or female. Grew up watching lots of shows with strong confident females and those that were able to analyze a situation well.

~Thanks in advance for any advice and for reading through this giant wall of text.
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barbie

I guess he is not an expert on gender identity issues. I also can say exactly like him. Probably anybody can do it. You may try to find another psychiatrist.

barbie~~

Just do it.
  • skype:barbie?call
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stephaniec

Quote from: barbie on December 24, 2013, 11:23:16 AM
I guess he is not an expert on gender identity issues. I also can say exactly like him. Probably anybody can do it. You may try to find another psychiatrist.

barbie~~
I try to find a therapist trained in gender issues. As for your father he loves you ,but your 27 years old not 17
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ashrock

Honestly, the fact that you are confused and thinking about it speaks volumes, what he said makes perfect sane logical sense for someone who ISNT transsexual and just fantasizes about it.  My advice, you know yourself.  Your dad might see all the logic, but he doesnt feel the pain associated with hiding yourself from the world.  So, it sounds to me like he loves you and doesnt want to see you hurt but doesnt understand that you are in pain right now, and I hope that you wont hold that against him.  As for your therapist, I kinda feel the same way about mine to be totally honest, but ive known im transgender for as long as I can remember, so I dont know what to say beyond, if you feel you are missing something from your therapist, try a different one.

Oh and p.s.: An analytical mind is NOT a manly mind contrary to popular opinion.
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Ginny

Thanks for the replies.  My therapist is supposed to be an expert in gender identity problems, and there aren't any others close in my area that I would be able to reach on a regular basis.  What I was looking for was more advice with regards to my dad.
I tend to be very logical and can grasp social situations quickly. This is probably why I was able to keep my feelings in check for so long. Eventually there was such a build up in emotions though, that I had my own quasi 'pon farr'. Not literally but comparitively.  If it helps at all my personality type is strongly INTJ.
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RosieD

Blatherings from Rosie:

Your therapist is taking their lead from you because that is what a therapist should do. Their role is to help you find your own answers and not to answer the questions for you.

Your old man seems like a reasonable type but a couple of the things he has said seem to demonstrate he is not exactly knowledgeable about GD. An analytical mind is no more a sign of masculinity than that weird digit ratio thing that keeps popping up on here for no sane reason. In my experience the majority don't disapprove of you getting your body altered. Following transition most of them won't notice anything and would be more likely to think it strange that you didn't get your body altered. This latter bit is a tad rubbish for the non-ops but I am sure 'the majority' will get there in the end.  Career wise it has made no appreciable difference to me. It has been slightly helpful if anything as I can concentrate properly now and for some bizarre reason people think I am 'extremely brave'.

Oh yeah, and as someone else said, you're 27 FFS!

Anyhow, the only useful advice I can give you is to trust yourself as it is only you who knows if you are trans or not. Be brutally honest with yourself and insist on proof for every assertion you make.

Then go with whatever you feel like.

Best of,

Rosie.
Well that was fun! What's next?
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Miyuki

Quote from: Ginny on December 24, 2013, 11:13:23 AM
Years later as a teenager I saw this fantastic anime series called Ranma 1/2 and I searched to see if there really was some sort of cursed Chinese training ground that could make me a girl (I figured I'd just avoid hot water after that).

Lol, you're not the only one who wondered about that. *points to avatar* ;)

Quote from: Ginny on December 24, 2013, 11:13:23 AM
I never really researched the topic because I thought it was "fantasy" and there wasn't a way to become a woman. The first time I heard the word transsexual I'm pretty sure I thought of ->-bleeped-<-/drag queen, which didn't interest me. About two and a half years ago I read an article about a transsexual in the news and realized it wasn't what I thought it was. After further research I couldn't believe that this option had been available for such a long time.

I know, it hit me like a ton of bricks when I really started to learn about it. I'm 27 too, and I would have most likely started to transition at around 12 if I had actually known more at the time about what being transsexual was and how it could be treated. There are so many misconceptions and inaccurate portrayals of transsexualism in popular culture though, it's no wonder it takes so many of us so long to figure out what's going on. I really think they should have to teach kids about being transsexual in sex education classes, because as it stands, unless you are just dead set on being a girl from a young age, there's a good chance your won't discover you're transsexual until testosterone has already done a lot of damage.

I really wish I could give you some advice for what to say to your father, but I'm having similar problems with my parents. Recently I have been so upset with my mom for refusing to accept or in any way be supportive of my decision to start transitioning, that I'm not even talking to her. I told her I would talk to her again if she would just tell me she would accept me as a girl, but she won't do it. Even though it's Christmas, she would rather not talk to me than accept me for who I am. :'(

...I don't think there is any easy way to get someone to accept your decision to transition if they really don't want to. If you spend enough time around here you'll read plenty of stories of people who had to completely cut friends or family members out of their lives because their refusal to come to terms with their decision to transition was becoming too difficult to live with. The best thing I can think of to tell you, is to just be patient with them and try to carefully explain to them why you want/need to transition. Talk to them for as long as they'll listen, but always be prepared to walk away if it starts turning into a fight. Remember that other people can have a lot invested in their image of you, and depending on just how invested they are, it can be very difficult for them to let go of. Sometimes the only option is to just move ahead without their support, and hope that over time they'll be able to come to terms with it.
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Missy~rmdlm

Frankly his advice sounds spot on. And I would wad that up and toss it, because my transition isn't optional.
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ashrock

Like I said, it doesn't sound like your dad is going to refuse to accept, and I know its no consolation or anything, but I'm not even talking to my parents anymore, it wasn't just a refusal to accept, but they aggressively sought to cause me to feel humiliated and unhappy, I'd love for my dad to say something half as caring on the subject as your dads email.  but those are my issues, and all I can say is I'm ok with it, their reactions are not responsibility to control, and my actions are for me to decide, just the same as you
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Jennygirl

My step dad tried to give me the exact same advice, but I already had 4 months of HRT implanted under my skin by the time I told him. Funny, I am actually sitting next to him now waiting for the xmas eve church service to start... 1 year older (29) and fully transitioned ;)

I think we probably share a lot in common analytically, and it sounds to me like you've done your research and know what needs to be done for yourself. Major congratulations, your sense of calm confidence is a breath of fresh air for everyone I'm sure!

I would say it's important to not ignore your father's concerns, but you could stand to wait to actually engage him again until you begin HRT or take a permanent step in transition. Once he sees that there is really no other option, he will have no choice but to accept. It's better to spare as much back-and-forth as possible... Email threads tend to elevate matters if there is a continued disagreement.

Either way, I wish you the best of luck. It sounds like you've got a great head on your shoulders and will likely be able to navigate your career just fine in my opinion. If you play it right, you should have no problem at all.

Happy holidays and congrats on being so close to starting HRT! May I ask which endocrinologist you'll be seeing in California? I live in LA :)

~Jenny
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JLT1

Ginny,

Not a great situation and email, but not really that bad.  The advice seems to reflect misinformed love rather than outright rejection.  I think you can work with that.  Look at Jennygirl, she did and she has done wonderfully with that.  Please, do not be depressed.  Opportunity doesn't come bearing roses that often. 

I'm taking apart what you father said. I think he and I are about the same age so I can do that.  I'm also transitioning.  I hope I see both sides.

"Whether right or wrong, transforming the body is looked down upon by the majority and will limit your options going forward."  Transforming your body is looked down on my some;  I don't really know how many and there will be problems.  Your options will be more limited.  The unemployment numbers for transgendered individuals is double the rest of the population.  You will most likely have problems as a result.  It's the truth.

"You are at a critical junction in your life and taking this decision will make the road very difficult."  Yep, you are.  Now is the time to explore. Now is not the time to commit.  There is a lot ahead of you before you make the crucial decisions.  Transition is about becoming: becoming aware of yourself and taking steps to bring who you are inside in-line with your physical being.  That may or may not be female.  Either is great if you take the time to discover what is what. 

"He has asked me to cancel both my flight to California for HRT"  Why are you flying to CA?  It is best if someone is close.  I think you could fly there and start when you are ready.  The trip is to get a prescription and information.   Also, you need a letter from your pshyc.  If you have that, you are further along than things read and canceling a flight probably isn't needed.

"stop trying to manipulate my voice".  I went to a professional who deals with helping transgendered men and women with their voice.  Somewhere in there, we discovered I have a fantastic singing voice.  Manipulate all you want but do so in such a way that you do not damage your voice.  There is a lot here on Susan's about voice training.  Check out some of that. 

Concentrate 100% on school/job, get my house prepared to sell, and keep ALL my career choices open."  Not bad advice but you will end up a workaholic.  This year, I missed over two months of work for doctor appointments and a surgery.  I also never missed a deadline.  I had no late projects. I had several letters of appreciation for my quality of work.  I also had three letters from division vice presidents supporting me for a promotion. I got that promotion and a new position within my company.  I did incredible.  All while I started HRT, came out to my family, coworkers, ran a successful business outside work and laid plans for the surgeries in 2014 so that at this time next year I will be the woman I was born to be.  I'm also tired. lol  It's possible. Do what needs to be done and keep the job and school center in your life.  Transitioning is in part a passive process.  You also need to manage time.  But, if it is right for you, it is possible.

"After this request he states that I need to continue forward without any added complications and see what life will bring."  He is correct in part in that this will bring complications.  I made a plan and kept adjusting it as things came in and out.  I also made a decision tree (if this, then I'll do that and if not this, then I'll do something else).  Then, I adjusted it as things came in or out.

"He stated his concern about how I am more comfortable being by myself and avoiding social situations and spend too much time in fantasy games (where I portray myself as female). "It is OK to fantasize about all kinds of scenarios, you just need to make sure to ground them against the norm. You owe yourself the chance to have a normal social life (i.e. get out of the house) in a new area without all the pressure you are putting on yourself."  Sounds like great reasons to explore who and what you are. If you are female on the inside, what you are going though IS the norm. 

"Once you have more time on your hand, get out and experiment with the feelings you are having.  This can easily be done without changing your body or voice."You have worked too hard to jump right into another up-hill battle.  I wish you would have felt comfortable talking about this with me in the past, but I want to make sure we keep an open dialog going forward.  Please do yourself a VERY BIG FAVOR and put the appointment on hold and stay with your wonderful voice for now."  By talking with a psych about this, I think you have explored.  But the last parts seem nothing but concern and probably love. 

The analytical part – you seem to be doing just that.  Analyzing, experimenting, arriving at conclusions and taking action on those conclusions.  Then, you are going the next step.  It seems your father is just behind on the learning curve.  He may need your help with that.   

I'm a PhD Chemist – analytical and inorganic as well as a molecular toxicologist.  Few are more analytical.  But there is a LOT of smart people who transition.  It is far harder than I would have thought.  But I keep going on because it's who and what I am.  I would encourage you to find out who and what you are.  Success is finding out and taking appropriate action, not in a specific outcome.  I would add that before you start HRT, bank some sperm.  Life is strange and unforeseen things happen.  You could become a wonderful woman, meet a wonderful woman and want children. You could also start HRT and decide this isn't for you.  I don't know what tomorrow will bring. It's cheap insurance. 


I wish you well.

Hugs,

Jen
To move forward is to leave behind that which has become dear. It is a call into the wild, into becoming someone currently unknown to us. For most, it is a call too frightening and too challenging to heed. For some, it is a call to be more than we were capable of being, both now and in the future.
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Ginny

Just got off of work. Thanks for all the great responses!

Quote from: JLT1 on December 24, 2013, 10:30:38 PM

"He has asked me to cancel both my flight to California for HRT"  Why are you flying to CA?  It is best if someone is close.  I think you could fly there and start when you are ready.  The trip is to get a prescription and information.   Also, you need a letter from your pshyc.  If you have that, you are further along than things read and canceling a flight probably isn't needed.

"After this request he states that I need to continue forward without any added complications and see what life will bring."  He is correct in part in that this will bring complications.  I made a plan and kept adjusting it as things came in and out.  I also made a decision tree (if this, then I'll do that and if not this, then I'll do something else).  Then, I adjusted it as things came in or out.

I'm a PhD Chemist – analytical and inorganic as well as a molecular toxicologist.  Few are more analytical.  But there is a LOT of smart people who transition.  It is far harder than I would have thought.  But I keep going on because it's who and what I am.  I would encourage you to find out who and what you are.  Success is finding out and taking appropriate action, not in a specific outcome.  I would add that before you start HRT, bank some sperm.  Life is strange and unforeseen things happen.  You could become a wonderful woman, meet a wonderful woman and want children.

Jen, thanks for all the information you posted.  For the first point about CA, I chose to go with a pellet technique for hormones because I thought that option best for me and based on the location I am at I would be traveling far no matter what.  Round trip airfair was very decently priced also, of course that could be because I booked a Thursday about a month and a half in advance.  As for the letter of recommendation, my psych told me that I really didn't need one from her and she's only ever had to write one letter for someone to start HRT. Also when I booked my appointment in CA, I asked if I needed to bring anything and I was told "not, unless I thought it would be helpful for the Dr".
As for the decision tree. I had started one back in October and have progressed as I had expected. Great advice!
A question on sperm storage.  How long after HRT would that be a viable option? I know before would be the best.

Quote from: Jennygirl on December 24, 2013, 07:57:56 PM
My step dad tried to give me the exact same advice, but I already had 4 months of HRT implanted under my skin by the time I told him. Funny, I am actually sitting next to him now waiting for the xmas eve church service to start... 1 year older (29) and fully transitioned ;)

Happy holidays and congrats on being so close to starting HRT! May I ask which endocrinologist you'll be seeing in California? I live in LA :)
Jenny, I have thought about starting HRT and just telling him at a later date, but I decided I want to be 100% honest on what's going on in my life with my immediate family.  As for the endo that I am using I will be seeing Dr. O'Dea. I'm supposed to get a consult, but I told them that I live back in Indiana and will most likely want to start HRT immediately after/during the consult.
                                                                               
To everyone else, thanks for the kind words and support. :D

~Ginny

P.S. In regards to job hunting, should I bring up my identity during the interview process? Wait a few weeks before work? or just show up first day of work as the best woman I can be? I plan to be interviewing in Feb/March (1-2mo on HRT) and will still be presenting as male during this time.
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Jennygirl

Ginny- Woop woop!! O'Dea is one of the best if not the best! He's my endo too!

You don't need a letter at all, he operates 100% on informed consent. Actually, don't even mention a therapist- he will likely tell you not to waste your money with them ;) He's kind of a maverick like that, but I like it.

I chose to start treatment the same day as the consult, that was about 3 weeks past a year ago and I have just been so impressed with his care. Be prepared though, he is expensive if you want to feminize quickly because the cost of having a lot of pellets adds up fast.

As far as sperm storage, I did it about 6 days following my HRT treatment. O'Dea told me I would have about a month before I would most likely be sterile. His pellet method is incredibly effective and you really don't want to wait very long.

By the way, I started out with 7 pellets, then moved up to 10, and the past two treatments I have had 12. His "pink panther" shots are incredible... Some kind of concoction of progesterone and other hormonal additives that he keeps as his trade secret. Let me tell you, if you want to have quick fulfillment in the breast department get a couple pink panthers... You will not be disappointed. I was wearing a B cup bra in 6 months, and my mom is a B cup. I have stopped the pink panthers though because they are usually about $120 per shot and he is now offering progesterone pellet implants which seem to do well for me... although I think maybe my boobs might not have as much girth as they once did when I was doubling and tripling up on them.

Job hunting, that is entirely up to you. I'd say it makes a big difference how well you present and how tolerant you'd read the company you're applying for to be. That is totally your call.

I hope this helps. I am more than happy to answer any other questions you have about O'Dea. He is a wonderful endocrinologist. You have chosen very, very well. Extremely happy for you, Ginny :D

And depending on when you're in town, I'm happy to meet up. I'm having a minor FFS operation on the 8th so I probably won't want to be visiting anyone within a couple of weeks after that... but let me know and maybe we could grab lunch in the marina or something :)
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Christine167

Ginny, I work in a hospital too so I understand where you are coming form on that. I also have the same background of thinking that transgender was a horrible joke until I started seeing real transgender women in the news. And if you do find that magic training ground remember to fall into the right pool. Otherwise it might be fat silent panda time ;)

I'd say don't be afraid and get started. You are still so young and this journey is just one of many in your whole life. The longer you wait to start the more you will wish you had earlier.

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rinaballerina

Quote from: Miyuki on December 24, 2013, 05:45:48 PM
Lol, you're not the only one who wondered about that. *points to avatar* ;)
and me as well, I was so envious of ranma but I would have just stayed as a female. Good thing kettles of hot water are everywhere.

As for your father, my parents say the same kind of things. But I think it's more from confusion than anything. They already had preconceived notions of me and when I told them I wanted to change I think it's almost like they are losing me. That's what I sense. And tbh it's not that bad this way.at least they don't hate or abuse me. I just have to be assertive and point out that not all women act in the same way. And that I am one.
"The beauty of a woman is not in the clothes she wears, the figure that she carries, or the way she combs her hair. The beauty of a woman is seen in her eyes, because that is the doorway to her heart, the place where love resides. True beauty in a woman is reflected in her soul. It's the caring that she lovingly gives, the passion that she shows..." — Audrey Hepburn
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Ms Grace

Ginny, I hear and understand your conflict. The advice everyone is giving is gold. I'd add that being told by other people that you are an "attractive man" shouldn't be a factor for you in choosing your way forward, you're not living your life for them and their opinion/perception of you...you have to make your decision based on how you feel about yourself. I know people may mean well when they say stuff like that but you can't let how other people see you be a straight jacket for your own self expression and self perception. :)
Grace
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Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
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