Using the bathroom legal or not?

[Gina Taylor]

I meant that as more of an issue of using the women't restroom while dressed. No one sane will ask to see your genitals to admit you into the restroom. Use whatever restroom you're dressed as. Screw that pathetic excuse for a law.

I know what you meant Willow. I was just being sarcastic. But honestly, if I were stopped and asked, I'd simply get out my driver's license and show them that I'm a genetic male. End of story. But as said I have to obey the Florida law, and I have to use the correct restroom until I've had SRS and my gender label has been changed. Unfortunately even after I get my citizenship, I still have to obey the law and keep clean, or I could be deported back to Canada. 

[ThePhoenix]

I know what you meant Willow. I was just being sarcastic. But honestly, if I were stopped and asked, I'd simply get out my driver's license and show them that I'm a genetic male. End of story. But as said I have to obey the Florida law, and I have to use the correct restroom until I've had SRS and my gender label has been changed. Unfortunately even after I get my citizenship, I still have to obey the law and keep clean, or I could be deported back to Canada. 

One might suggest consulting someone who is knowledgeable about Florida law as it applies to trans* people.  A random policeman is not such a person. 

I did a very fast, quick and dirty search on Florida state law and found no such requirement as you describe.  I suspect it does not exist.  In fact I'd be very surprised if it did. 

On the other hand, trans* people have been arrested for using the restroom no matter which one they use.  Just because they end up unable to charge you with anything does not help to avoid arrest by a bigoted cop. 

Now that I said that, I have to add the DISCLAIMER that although I am a lawyer, I am not your lawyer.  I am also licensed in Maryland and DC only, not Florida.  And if you want advice on your situation, you should consult counsel other than me.  I did truly do just a quick, nonexhaustive  search.  If you want a for sure answer, consult someone to figure it out for certain. 

[Gina Taylor]

One might suggest consulting someone who is knowledgeable about Florida law as it applies to trans* people.  A random policeman is not such a person. 

I did a very fast, quick and dirty search on Florida state law and found no such requirement as you describe.  I suspect it does not exist.  In fact I'd be very surprised if it did. 

On the other hand, trans* people have been arrested for using the restroom no matter which one they use.  Just because they end up unable to charge you with anything does not help to avoid arrest by a bigoted cop. 

Now that I said that, I have to add the DISCLAIMER that although I am a lawyer, I am not your lawyer.  I am also licensed in Maryland and DC only, not Florida.  And if you want advice on your situation, you should consult counsel other than me.  I did truly do just a quick, nonexhaustive  search.  If you want a for sure answer, consult someone to figure it out for certain.

Appreciate your help Phoenix. But as said that was what a police officer told me. Now if I go into a woman's restroom and some woman feels uncomfortable with me, she does have the right to complain and if the police do get involved, what recourse would I have? Now that's one scenerio. I will do an extensive search on the subject and see what I come up with for my own knowledge, and I also have a friend who is a lawyer as well and I'm sure that he can easily steer me in the right direction of the Florida law.

[ThePhoenix]

Appreciate your help Phoenix. But as said that was what a police officer told me. Now if I go into a woman's restroom and some woman feels uncomfortable with me, she does have the right to complain and if the police do get involved, what recourse would I have? Now that's one scenerio. I will do an extensive search on the subject and see what I come up with for my own knowledge, and I also have a friend who is a lawyer as well and I'm sure that he can easily steer me in the right direction of the Florida law.

My guess would be that the officer you spoke to was coming from his own biases and prejudices about how he thinks people ought go rather than a real understanding of the law.  Now, having said that, one question that comes to mind is whether there is any express prohibition on using opposite sex restrooms in a local county or municipal ordinance.  That's one of the things I did not look at at all. 

As far as unlawful arrests go, I guess under the right circumstances you could bring a civil rights claim.  But those can be pretty hard to bring successfully.

The other thing to beware of is that trans* people have gotten arrested regardless of which restroom they use.  Transwomen who use the ladies room have been arrested.  So have transwomen who use the men's room.  Disorderly conduct seems to be the popular charge.  If the police were called, I'd recommend contacting Lambda Legal, the Transgender Legal Defense Fund, or other legal organizations that are accustomed to helping trans* people. 

The good news is that arrests or any sort are pretty rare.  The problems people have are usually harassment by other patrons or the employees of a business and do not involve arrests or criminal charges.  Even if the police were called, the issue can usually be worked out without a problem.  And I suspect that the overwhelming majority of times trans* people use restrooms, they have no issues at all. 

But problems do happen.  So avoidance of problems is the best tactic.  And one way to do that is to use the restroom that best matches how people seem to be perceiving you.  If they keep calling you ma'am, use the ladies room.  Using the men's room  when perceived as a woman is more likely to create situations because it will seem weird and out of place.

Anyway, that's my two cents for what it's worth.  Just trying to apply common sense to a scenario where common sense admittedly doesn't always work out the way it should.

[Gina Taylor]

My guess would be that the officer you spoke to was coming from his own biases and prejudices about how he thinks people ought go rather than a real understanding of the law.  Now, having said that, one question that comes to mind is whether there is any express prohibition on using opposite sex restrooms in a local county or municipal ordinance.  That's one of the things I did not look at at all. 

As far as unlawful arrests go, I guess under the right circumstances you could bring a civil rights claim.  But those can be pretty hard to bring successfully.

The other thing to beware of is that trans* people have gotten arrested regardless of which restroom they use.  Transwomen who use the ladies room have been arrested.  So have transwomen who use the men's room.  Disorderly conduct seems to be the popular charge.  If the police were called, I'd recommend contacting Lambda Legal, the Transgender Legal Defense Fund, or other legal organizations that are accustomed to helping trans* people. 

The good news is that arrests or any sort are pretty rare.  The problems people have are usually harassment by other patrons or the employees of a business and do not involve arrests or criminal charges.  Even if the police were called, the issue can usually be worked out without a problem.  And I suspect that the overwhelming majority of times trans* people use restrooms, they have no issues at all. 

But problems do happen.  So avoidance of problems is the best tactic.  And one way to do that is to use the restroom that best matches how people seem to be perceiving you.  If they keep calling you ma'am, use the ladies room.  Using the men's room  when perceived as a woman is more likely to create situations because it will seem weird and out of place.

Anyway, that's my two cents for what it's worth.  Just trying to apply common sense to a scenario where common sense admittedly doesn't always work out the way it should.

Thanks for your imput Phoenix. One thing that my mom had told me {and this could have been just a scare tactic} was that when I had used  the ladies room at my church, they could have called security, but the only thing that got me out of that mess was that some of the people there ad recognized me and let it slide.  A few years ago, when I was at a Flea Market, I had to use the restroom. Now being dressed, naturally I went into the ladies room. It was empty, so I quickly went in and did my business. When leaving I was approached by one of the owners and he asked if I had used the ladies room, and I told him that I had, and then he just let me go, because like you said, the issue can usually be worked out without a problem.

[Lazarus]

My Dad mentioned to me he didn't know if it was legal for people to use the bathroom that's opposite of their body. (I'm transgender, MtF) And soon I will be going shopping for hrs. That means I'll have to use the women's bathroom more than likely. So my question here is, is it legal or not for us trans people to use the bathroom that's for the gender that's opposite of our body? If it's not legal, what will happen if we do use the bathroom that for the gender we truly are? (Aside from being arrested maybe, like would it be on our records thus making it harder to get a job and everything that happens, please tell me as I need to know, thanks)

Sorry if my wording here hurt anyone, just don't know how else to word this is all.

All my life I've encountered problems with using the "men's room" or "men's changes" in the gym, where I've been a member for over twenty-four months. I've been yelled more times than I have digits, occasionally man-handled and pulled out by other people, warned by people I've entered the wrong one and a few weeks ago here in Manchester (UK) I was escorted out of the men's toilet by the Arndale Center food courts lavatories by one of their security guard!!  And you're asking is it legal. Well darling, I'm born intersex and depending on who you ask, most seems to mis-gender me even though legally I'm still male.

[Gina Taylor]

I'm really sorry to hear about all the problems you've been having. I guess the only recourse you can take is to keep your driver's license close by so that if you do run into another situation you can quickly show them that you are a male and stop the confusion. I just find it hard to believe that because of the way society has become that I have to spend $48,000 to have an operation that I don't really feel like having in order to use the right restroom to match my gender preference. Go figure???

[Tessa James]

Well folks if six year old Coy Mathis can stand up for herself and walk into a girls bathroom we might just be shown the way by a child! www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/24/coy-mathis_n_3488306.html

I am with Suzi and others on this one.  while respecting anyones right to go where they will, I am going to continue in the ladies room.  I am out FT and staying that way.  I am enough of a woman to go where I want and expect to not be hassled.  This is a civil rights, health and safety issue to me

I'm not looking for affirmation from the masses about my gender or waiting for anyone's permission.  We have a biological need to go, and a reasonable expectation to go safely and go privately. 

[Miss_Bungle1991]

This is how it has been for me:

When I was pre-HRT, I had constant instances of being questioned and getting weird looks when I went into the men's room.

After I had been on HRT for about 18 months. There were many times when I would be walking back to the public restrooms and I had other women saying to me: "Honey, that is the wrong restroom" when I would turn towards the men's room. From that point on, I began using the women's room and I've had only one time when I was questioned in the last 5 years. It was some 16 year old brat at Dairy Queen. She was at the table with 3 other girls and I heard her say something about "a guy going into the men's room." But I also heard one of her friends tell her to shut up and that "you don't know if that's some butch chick or not." I just kept going but I couldn't help but laugh on the inside. I certainly don't look butch, though.

[Lazarus]

I'm really sorry to hear about all the problems you've been having. I guess the only recourse you can take is to keep your driver's license close by so that if you do run into another situation you can quickly show them that you are a male and stop the confusion. I just find it hard to believe that because of the way society has become that I have to spend $48,000 to have an operation that I don't really feel like having in order to use the right restroom to match my gender preference. Go figure???

Thanks for understanding Gina.. I've given up trying to figure out how society judge people, since a teen I've been taking my chances and use whichever restroom I should use "theoretically" use. For the time i've used the ladies, I've never encounter any issues, yet. After a great many years I finally discovered why, however those answers came with much emotional pains cause I'd previously dreamt of having children of my own, or atleast bank sperm. Now adoption is the only path as it turns out I'm XXY with an unknown level of AIS, I say "unknown" as they're still doing tests. My last T count is 0.2 with O ~179-198.   

[ThePhoenix]

Thanks for your imput Phoenix. One thing that my mom had told me {and this could have been just a scare tactic} was that when I had used  the ladies room at my church, they could have called security, but the only thing that got me out of that mess was that some of the people there ad recognized me and let it slide.  A few years ago, when I was at a Flea Market, I had to use the restroom. Now being dressed, naturally I went into the ladies room. It was empty, so I quickly went in and did my business. When leaving I was approached by one of the owners and he asked if I had used the ladies room, and I told him that I had, and then he just let me go, because like you said, the issue can usually be worked out without a problem.

One thing about it is that just because a trans* person can use a particular restroom does not mean others are going to be nice about it.  But your stories are good examples of how these things can usually be okay without a big fuss.

[Gina Taylor]

One thing about it is that just because a trans* person can use a particular restroom does not mean others are going to be nice about it.  But your stories are good examples of how these things can usually be okay without a big fuss.

Thank you. 

I guess I've just been lucky. The ironic thing that happened after I left the Flea Market was that that manager got reprimened for being a little loud right there at the front entrance with his questions, so I felt somewhat justfied.  The best way to have handled the situation was to have taken me soempalec private.