Susan's Place Logo

News:

According to Google Analytics 25,259,719 users made visits accounting for 140,758,117 Pageviews since December 2006

Main Menu

More trans than you!

Started by Tessa James, January 02, 2014, 05:13:05 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Tessa James

This could be an incendiary topic but it is also too frequently something newly out, non binary and transitioning people face.  I have felt upset about a sister transwoman who needed to tell me what she thought of my presentation.  We had never met before and were in a tavern last week with several other transgender people including my supportive adult daughter and a MtF friend.  It felt intense but definitely not pretty and i guess that was her point.  I'm not a pretty girl, don't wear make up and am generally happy about being unapologetic and out there.  None of us are representative of all trans people or the gods special spokesperson.  I'm not looking for sympathy, I can handle this trifle.

When we are first coming out, exploring or trying to conquer our fears we look to others as mentors and allies in solidarity.  My experience is sadly not new to many of us.  This is the same judgmental attitudes I experienced for decades as an out and active Bi/queer person when gay and lesbian people dismissed me as a wannabe, indecisive, partner stealing threat.  With so many mind readers why do we still need therapists! ???  Just kidding.  Still all of my best friends are either LGBTQ or supportive and none of us speak for any single one of those groups either.

I am taking my own advice about not letting the masses define me and nobody needs to let one person wreck our day.  Fortunately I also have a strong circle of support and ok self esteem.  I try to envision the quack quack flak as water off the proverbial ducks back, just trickling into the pond.  A dear cisgender girlfriend wrote today; "People who cannot handle ambiguity are prone to ideological purity,  which means trouble."  We don't need trouble from our trans brothers and sisters.  Elitism is not helpful and unless someone has toilet tissue hanging from their behind, negative comments about style or presentation are unwelcome.  It is a challenge for me to accept someone who really thinks they need to intercede as a "public service."  Just the self anointed judges we don't need IMO.

I feel we would all do well to remember how individual and unique our lives are.  Commonalities are not commandments folks.  We actually do get some choice in our presentation and if we want to be truly free and liberated it is essential that we allow others those same freedoms.  My perceptions of others is not as valuable as their own self image and not called for unless asked.

Stepping down from my soapbox; This moderated venue of virtual reality is generally not a hurtful place and I am so very grateful that most really are here in a supportive and caring role.  Thank YOU!
Open, out and evolving queer trans person forever with HRT support since March 13, 2013
  •  

kelly_aus

Quote from: Tessa James on January 02, 2014, 05:13:05 PM
I feel we would all do well to remember how individual and unique our lives are.  Commonalities are not commandments folks.  We actually do get some choice in our presentation and if we want to be truly free and liberated it is essential that we allow others those same freedoms.  My perspectives of others is not as valuable as their own self image and not called for unless asked.

Stepping down from my soapbox; This moderated venue of virtual reality is generally not a hurtful place and I am so very grateful that most really are here in a supportive and caring role.  Thank YOU!

There are some around here who don't seem to get this..
  •  

Jill F

So true.

It has been said that there are as many ways to be trans as there are transpeople.

The fact is that we are far too often damaged or broken people who must face the often disastrous consequences of being true to ourselves.  The likelihood of any of us suffering from anxiety, depression or suicidal thoughts is off the freaking chart.  This is why we need to be excellent to each other at all times.  Who wants to be the one who gave somebody the final push over their cliff?
  •  

JRD

its a pissing contest. Best to not fall into the trap and just learn to blow right by those sorts of comments and opinions. I figure sooner or later, they're gonna hit an electric fence anyway.
  •  

Rachel

Tessa, hugs and kudos.

I felt during my life I never "fit" anywhere. Definitely not the "male" role. I hope to be out this year and as such I will not have a

female stealth look. Instead, I will look trans*. Being myself will be the point. I will be in the gayborhood and as such will have some

acceptance when about. The stress level will be at maximum and if that happened to me I would be very hurt.
HRT  5-28-2013
FT   11-13-2015
FFS   9-16-2016 -Spiegel
GCS 11-15-2016 - McGinn
Hair Grafts 3-20-2017 - Cooley
Voice therapy start 3-2017 - Reene Blaker
Labiaplasty 5-15-2017 - McGinn
BA 7-12-2017 - McGinn
Hair grafts 9-25-2017 Dr.Cooley
Sataloff Cricothyroid subluxation and trachea shave12-11-2017
Dr. McGinn labiaplasty, hood repair, scar removal, graph repair and bottom of  vagina finished. urethra repositioned. 4-4-2018
Dr. Sataloff Glottoplasty 5-14-2018
Dr. McGinn vaginal in office procedure 10-22-2018
Dr. McGinn vaginal revision 2 4-3-2019 Bottom of vagina closed off, fat injected into the labia and urethra repositioned.
Dr. Thomas in 2020 FEMLAR
  • skype:Rachel?call
  •  

suzifrommd

Quote from: Tessa James on January 02, 2014, 05:13:05 PM
This could be an incendiary topic but it is also too frequently something newly out, non binary and transitioning people face. 

I've been there. I've had a trans woman tell me I need to get facial surgery, another who told me I needed to wear heels (seriously? I'm 5'10" and the tallest woman I know.) People have told me I needed makeup, eyebrow waxing, and a bunch of other stuff.

I feel sorry for those folks. Anyone who is forced to go through life not knowing when to keep their mouth shut and their criticisms to themselves, can't have had an easy life.
Have you read my short story The Eve of Triumph?
  •  

ThePhoenix

I don't think this is an incendiary topic.  But I do think it is one worth talking about in the community more.  Allow me to quote a small excerpt from a hateful email sent to me by my number one hater:

"I have heard you say in meetings in the past how you don't like being around Transwomen, or Crossdressers and that you only see yourself as Trans Sis.  How can you say you are for "Unity", when you feel that way.  I don't go around wearing a t-shirt  saying "I'm Trans", but one thing I know that I will never forget who I am and where I came from and I support Unity for ALL !!!"

It is true that I often feel out of place in trans* gatherings and that this reality has, at times, caused me to walk away from them quite literally in tears wondering why the trans* community seems to have no place for me.  It's also true that I have absolutely zero understanding of what crossdressing is about.  And it's true that I tend to fit in and socialize most easily with cispeople.  How these things turned me into someone who doesn't like trans* people, I don't know.  But I do know that all trans* people are different.  And this community has to have room for everyone.

Another quote, this time from my TDOR remarks this year:

"So I say again . . . it does not matter who you are.  It does not matter if you are from Maryland, DC, Virginia, or the moon.  It doesn't matter if you identify as a transman, a transwoman, genderqueer, a gender ->-bleeped-<-, she male, crossdresser, cisgender ally, detransitioner, retransitioner, multiple transitioner, a person of trans experience, or a person who doesn't quite know exactly what they are.  It doesn't matter if you are a person of color or lily white.  It doesn't matter if you pass or if you think passing is a bad word.  It doesn't matter if you are "out and proud" or if you are deep in stealth, living your life by blending in, or if you are out there living in fear.  This community is big enough to embrace you—all trans* people of all kinds and all of our allies too."

I published an op ed on a similar theme shortly after TDOR.  As a consequence of those two things, I have been under attack for about a month now by one of the state's major prominent trans* advocacy organizations.  They have blasted me on Facebook, in the press, and I've had people call me to let me know that their Executive Director, a prominent activist who is well known nationally, phoned them to tell them that I suffer from severe mental illness and am erratic and a "broken shell of a human being."

It's been like that since I first came into the local community not too long ago.  The same person who made the phone calls attacked me during support meetings (!) for the fact that my male presentation was too androgynous.  Then when I started seeing falsified documents show up in my case files at work with my name on them and started having to take some pretty potent antidepressants just to cope with how I was being treated at work, she told me I probably just had a bad attitude and found it impossible to believe that any sort of discrimination was going on.  I felt like a little bug getting squashed by this nationally renowned figure.  Now that I no longer speak to this person, I have had others critique me for "bending to pressure to conform to gender expectations" and "being too much like a woman."  And, of course, I still have people like the one I quoted above who seem to think I am some kind of traitor. 

These things hurt.  And I'm not unique in being on the receiving end of them.  I've seen them happen a lot to others.  I've been the person who interceded to stop them happening to others.  And there have been times when I am ashamed to say that I was too tired, too wounded, or otherwise in a space where I found myself not speaking up for others to whom it was done. 

If I hated trans* people after all of this, I suspect that people would forgive me.  But I don't.  I just hope that people listen to what happened to me and see what happens to others and learn to make the trans* community safe for all trans* people.  A place where there really is room for all of us.  And the only way I know to do that is to fight exclusion by embracing.  We each can fight against the put downs and the exclusion and the in fighting by just refusing to participate. 

I believe that many of the people who exclude other trans* people! who find them to be not trans* enough  or too trans* or whatever else, do so out of their own wounds and insecurities.  So the best way to fight against it is by preventing wounds where we can, healing them where we cannot.  So the best weapon against someone like that truly is to walk up and give them a big hug.

  •  

Tessa James



Quote from: kelly_aus
There are some around here who don't seem to get this..

Yes, we have seen more than few related threads over time

Quote from: Jill F on January 02, 2014, 06:18:27 PM
Who wants to be the one who gave somebody the final push over their cliff?

OMG that is a poignant reminder of how we might irreparably harm someone with WORDS.


Quote from: suzifrommd
I feel sorry for those folks.

your compassion is admirable and needed

Quote
its a pissing contest. .

And who lifts there legs anymore but male dogs? ;)

Quote from: Cynthia Michelle
Being myself will be the point.   

You are so sweet I only wish I could be there to hold your hand


Quote from: ThePhoenix link
So the best weapon against someone like that truly is to walk up and give them a big hug.

Far better than fanning the flames and kind advice.

Thank you all
Open, out and evolving queer trans person forever with HRT support since March 13, 2013
  •  

Ms Grace

All things trans* were a much smaller pond way back in the early 1990s. When I went back into denial I pretty much cut myself off from anything to do with it. Dipping my toe back into it in April, especially with the internet there to allow for the dissemination of everything and anything, really shocked me. Certainly there was a very strident and robust discussion about what "constituted being trans*" that I was utterly unprepared for. Terminology and concepts had evolved well beyond anything I knew of in 1990...and at first the variety of gender nomenclature kind of made me despair. "Can't I just be me?" I wondered. Anyway, I've decided to stay away from the more militant and angry and judgemental stuff, just isn't my cup of tea! :)
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
  •  

Miss_Bungle1991

I don't care about my "transness" as far as "I'm more trans than you". I always thought that was the dumbest argument ever. Yeah, let's argue about something that a lot of people hate us for. Yeah, that's really bright. ::) I've said it over and over: You lock a "proud" more-trans-than-you type, a CD, a Andro chick, a Non-op and a Pre-Op in a room full of bigots and they won't give a damn about who did or didn't do whatever. They will hate all of them equally. But people still want to flog this damn dead horse over and over. Hell, the horse is decomposed at this point!
  •  

BunnyBee

What people think of you (and others) says much more about them than you.  When somebody looks down on somebody else, you see their insecurities on full display.  When somebody is constantly exuding negativity, they are showing the world their dark heart.  What comes out of people betrays what is inside them.

Anyway, one thing I've learned, and the experience of transition really helped me get this, is that people are just mirrors.  We look at others and see ourselves, and we hate and love in them the things we hate and love about ourselves.

I guess all I mean is you shouldn't take anything anybody says about you to heart because they aren't actually talking about you, they are talking about themselves.  I don't know if that makes sense..
  •  

Ms Grace

You ladies are being waaaaay too reasonable. If this was anywhere else on the internet this thread would have ignited into a full on flame war by now.  ;)

Must be why I like Susan's so much!
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
  •  

ThePhoenix

Quote from: Ms Grace on January 02, 2014, 08:32:39 PM
All things trans* were a much smaller pond way back in the early 1990s. When I went back into denial I pretty much cut myself off from anything to do with it. Dipping my toe back into it in April, especially with the internet there to allow for the dissemination of everything and anything, really shocked me. Certainly there was a very strident and robust discussion about what "constituted being trans*" that I was utterly unprepared for. Terminology and concepts had evolved well beyond anything I knew of in 1990...and at first the variety of gender nomenclature kind of made me despair. "Can't I just be me?" I wondered. Anyway, I've decided to stay away from the more militant and angry and judgemental stuff, just isn't my cup of tea! :)

I remember those days too.  It was a different world and ways of thinking have come a long way since then.  But a lot of people from those days are still around and some if their ideas haven't changed as much.  Maybe there is a generational component (as in generations of transpeople, not just age) to the way people think about who is trans* and who is not and who is too much so or not enough?  It seems like age and when a person came into the community has a lot to do with it in my experience. 
  •  

BunnyBee

Yeah.  i have noticed the more strident people seem to be older.  Younger people seem to not care as much.  Btw there are offenders on both sides of the issue, just throwing that out there.

Anyway, I think people that don't get very wrapped up in how other people live their lives are probably more actualized and happier/healthier.
  •  

Jamie D

Quote from: Ms Grace on January 02, 2014, 08:32:39 PM
All things trans* were a much smaller pond way back in the early 1990s. When I went back into denial I pretty much cut myself off from anything to do with it. Dipping my toe back into it in April, especially with the internet there to allow for the dissemination of everything and anything, really shocked me. Certainly there was a very strident and robust discussion about what "constituted being trans*" that I was utterly unprepared for. Terminology and concepts had evolved well beyond anything I knew of in 1990...and at first the variety of gender nomenclature kind of made me despair. "Can't I just be me?" I wondered. Anyway, I've decided to stay away from the more militant and angry and judgmental stuff, just isn't my cup of tea! :)

I really appreciate your comments, and this entire topic!

The highlighted question, above, rings true with me, because of my non-binary identification.  Peek in on the "androgyne" topics some time.  We are, as a group or mini-community, dealing with those issues all the time.
  •  

Gina Taylor

Quote from: Ms Grace on January 02, 2014, 08:32:39 PM
All things trans* were a much smaller pond way back in the early 1990s. When I went back into denial I pretty much cut myself off from anything to do with it. Dipping my toe back into it in April, especially with the internet there to allow for the dissemination of everything and anything, really shocked me. Certainly there was a very strident and robust discussion about what "constituted being trans*" that I was utterly unprepared for. Terminology and concepts had evolved well beyond anything I knew of in 1990...and at first the variety of gender nomenclature kind of made me despair. "Can't I just be me?" I wondered. Anyway, I've decided to stay away from the more militant and angry and judgemental stuff, just isn't my cup of tea! :)

Y'know I feel the same way that you do Grace. In 20 years things have gone from bad to worse. People are so judgmental of us and they critisize us so much before we even say anything because of who we are. If poepel were to become more educated on us and havea little more compation I think they'd be more tolerant for us.
Gina Marie Taylor  8)
  •  

big kim

I've been told going to the punk rock festival wasn't the sort of thing a "real transexual" should do.I think you can guess my reply!
  •  

Tessa James

Open, out and evolving queer trans person forever with HRT support since March 13, 2013
  •  

V M

It is important to remember that Susan's Place is an inclusive community and that "More trans than you" attitudes are greatly frowned upon   

Everyone is welcome  :)  Unfortunately some folks do need to be reminded of that from time to time

Glad to have you all here

Hugs

V M
The main things to remember in life are Love, Kindness, Understanding and Respect - Always make forward progress

Superficial fanny kissing friends are a dime a dozen, a TRUE FRIEND however is PRICELESS


- V M
  •  

Jill F

Quote from: big kim on January 03, 2014, 02:11:25 AM
I've been told going to the punk rock festival wasn't the sort of thing a "real transexual" should do.I think you can guess my reply!

My goth/punk trans friends will all laugh at this.   What the hell do "real transsexuals" do anyway?   I just do pretty much everything I used to do, but I'm much happier doing it.   And I've been to plenty of shows. 
  •