is it ever okay....to suffer injustice in silence?

[katia]

or is it cowardice if you don't put the constitution in action and fight for your right to pursue [happiness] even against tyranny and its agents?

[Jonie]

There is so much injustice in the world that if you don't choose you're battles carefully you won't have time for anything else, all things in moderation.

[RebeccaFog]

or is it cowardice if you don't put the constitution in action and fight for your right to pursue [happiness] even against tyranny and its agents?

I vote for this opinion.

   I've come to understand lately that most times there is no reason to suffer in silence. In fact, it is wrong to do so.  Even if it hurts the people you love, there are times when you just have to pursue your right to happiness.
   It's not easy to do such a thing, but if it was, there'd be no dilemma.

[Fer]

This question is a matter of perception and the answers are many and vary. I personally see the value in both pending the situation.

[The Middle Way]

or is it cowardice if you don't put the constitution in action and fight for your right to pursue [happiness] even against tyranny and its agents?

What does 'fighting for the right' actually mean? This constitution (which only exists as the culmination of a struggle that meant actual taking up of arms, they called it a revolutionary struggle, back in the day) is being rewritten by an oligarchy, As We Speak.

Are you ready to join a revolutionary army? There doesn't appear to be one to join. Are you prepared to make a revolutionary army? Who do you know with the skills to be the front man or front woman for this cause? (NB: It ain't me, babe.)

Do you mean we need the courage to, what, vote? Vote for change? When both parties are part and parcel part of the problem?  Which I think we are defining here as tyranny and its agents...

MIGHT 'freedom' from this 'tyranny' - the courage to be 'free' (and not just real cheap ) - have anything to do with not buying in, at all, to this farce? The courage to do your own thing, and encourage that among the rest of the population, a sort of very subtle putting your money where your mouth is.

Let me try a more concrete approach:
The system which we seem to be saying is tyrannical has as its economic infrastructure the exploitation of fossil fuels, among other things. But are you still driving a real charp car to get to the market, to get to your cubicle which allows you to go to the market, and even to get to McDonalds in a hurry when you "need to"; that job you do, that compromise you have made, to have the ability to buy all those nice things which you use to momentarily console yourself about your 'life' in your cubicle, in your car to and from - these things one does that support the pyramid - is it at all possible you are one with the tyrants, having bought into the scheme?

Is not examining this vicious cycle where the cowardice might lie?

None of the Above

[RebeccaFog]

Let me try a more concrete approach:
The system which we seem to be saying is tyrannical has as its economic infrastructure the exploitation of fossil fuels, among other things. But are you still driving a real charp car to get to the market, to get to your cubicle which allows you to go to the market, and even to get to McDonalds in a hurry when you "need to"; that job you do, that compromise you have made, to have the ability to buy all those nice things which momentarily you use to console yourself about your 'life' in your cubicle, in your car to and from... these things one does that support the pyramid - is it at all possible you are one with the tyrants, having bought into the scheme?

Is not examining this vicious cycle where the cowardice might lie?

None of the Above

   To me, the problem is not the cubicle people or the ditch diggers. It's the swine at the top. The top swine is made up of many of the corporate swine (not redundant; one cannot overuse the word 'swine' enough in reference to these swine), the powerful politicians, and the military swine who follow their obscene orders.
   On the ditch digging cubicle level, what you have is people spending relatively a few bucks (yes deer is considered currency in some backwards parts of the country) on necessities and a few pleasures or distractions. Most of their money goes to having a roof over their heads, transportation, food, clothing, medical stuff, immoral taxes, and the like.
   The money they spend pays the salaries of local contractors, McDonald employees (who are shafted by their swine owners), and other people who use the money to have a roof over their heads, transportation, food, clothing, medical stuff, immoral taxes, and the like.  Most of them cannot afford all of the food they need or really well made clothing that will last.

   Any way, I guess you can think of it either as a vicious circle with many levels, some more vicious than others, or you can think about it as many circles overlapping, some of them entirely within each other.

   The swine at the top take and take and take and take and then abuse people at the bottom so that they can take and take some more. They hold all of the property and the resources which, in the hands of non-swines might be treated with respect, shared with more equity amongst the people, and conserved for future generations.  I would like to believe that finding non-swines is possible. Maybe I'm just brain damaged in my idealism.

   A true revolution would be directed at Wall Street and the corporations. The government needs change too, obviously, however, I have a weird intuition that tells me, it is possible for people and MORAL corporations to band together and build an entity so powerful that the federal government of the United States of America can be entirely ignored (as it should be).  Then, once the media is out of the hands of the criminal media swine, we can encourage the reconstruction of the government into an actual useful tool of the people.

   I'm not a tyrant.  I vote only for people I actually respect.  I give when able to. I try to help people (I could do a lot better in this area). I consciously buy services from mostly local companies. I don't drive anywhere unless I have an actual place to go.  I sign petitions. I am also weak in writing letters to the swine currently in government, but I'm hoping to work on that.  I encourage people to worm out of paying their taxes if possible.
   I know I need to do more, but I'm also extremely lazy.

sorry for the speech.  Last time I made some of these suggestions, someone said I wanted to create a force that would go up to people in the streets and take their blood against their will.  I may be many things, but I am not a mosquito.

   I was silly in some places because sometimes this topic gets me upset.


Becky

[The Middle Way]

Well it appears you are making a distinction because there are those at the top standing on the shoulders of and crushing the people at the bottom.

My point is that those in the middle, who need to identify with the ons at the top, and have the same kind of stuff as them, enable this process. The Top Swine is made partly from the Middle Swine, and don't doubt that a lot of the more clever Bottom Swine would like nothing more than to be Middle Swine and Swine on up to Big Top Swine status.

Now, You and I, Becky are acutely aware of Swinishness. I can assure you that there is No Percentage in such a view. BECAUSE OF THE HIGH PERCENTAGE inherent in active Swinehood, Swinishness shall rule. Blaming the ones that have been the better Swines changes little or nothing.

It has to be about a raising of consciousness, at all levels. A whole lot of people, at any level of participation, gots to be conscious of how stuff works, I think.

I do not feel this is strictly a top-down system, or what they call a *theoretical* approach; it may be that some of it is a bottom-up approach, what they call a *model-building* approach, and what they call a *paradigm shift* is crucial.

N

[RebeccaFog]

I am at the bottom.

It has to be about a raising of consciousness, at all levels. A whole lot of people, at any level of participation, gots to be conscious of how stuff works, I think.

   I have thought about how to do this for years.  All I can come up with is better education for children which isn't necessarily that good of an idea because the top swine will influence it and teach them more swine skills.

   I guess, alternately, if the right group attained power in the government, they could create some serious reforms which would at least diminish the horror of the present swines for a few generations.  That is unlikely too.

   This is the kind of injustice I am trying to not suffer in silence.

[The Middle Way]

I have thought about it for a couple of minutes. The Top Swines will influence the education process as long as the education process is based entirely on the Swine paradigm, and they will fund the process to the self-same degree it reflects that.

The Swine Participation factor is strong; one looks not for what is the right livelihood, based upon what is best for one's own development, in wholistic terms, but looks for the livelihood that will generate the closer approximation to the Better Swines. And we got an education that Kills two birds via one stone: it gets you ready for your role in the system by showing you the carrot: do good according to US and get more Swine-approved points, symbolized as 'stuff'; and has the stick of the conformity that this requires.

Now a concrete example: A filmmaker called David Lynch has been donating substantial sums of money and stuff in California, USA to promote and enable meditation in the schools there.
This may sound ABSURD to someone who's motivated to buy into the system where one is defined by one's stuff. There is after all, not much stuff one can brag about that one finds in one's own navel contemplation.

But it is a shifted paradigm... a kid might tap into his own creative forces, and - this might be hard to imagine, but - if a whole lotta kids got to doing that, Swinishness might not be so de rigeur.

N

[Wendy]

... I have thought about how to do this for years.  All I can come up with is better education for children which isn't necessarily that good of an idea because the top swine will influence it and teach them more swine skills.

Becky the term "swine skills" made me smile!  Actually the corporate world has influenced the educational system to provide many people with the skills the corporate world needs.  This in turn will increase supply which in turn will drive down the price of skilled labor.
............

I am not in favor of more government since the U.S. government has proved it is grossly inefficient.  I do think the corporate world is too greedy which may prove destructive over time.

There is so much injustice in the world that if you don't choose you're battles carefully you won't have time for anything else, all things in moderation.

Good point Jonie.  I do take some of my time and money to help where I think it might make a difference.  If I alienate the entire community than I will not make any progress since I will have no allies.  Sometimes I do not fight because I am a coward, sometimes I do not fight because I am indifferent, and sometimes I fight where I think I might make a difference.