Injection pain

[David27]

I injected my T this morning and I had lots of pain within the skin. I've never injected into my right thigh before with an IM shot. I've had hip surgery which has altered the perception of feeling in the skin. I was wondering if any of you guys had any experience with issues like this.

[overdrive]

Theres already a few posts on this here so do a search. Heres a link to one of those threads https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,156150

[David27]

Theres already a few posts on this here so do a search. Heres a link to one of those threads https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,156150

I read this and it is mostly about after injection pain, which is not what I'm talking about. I should have been more specific.

The pain is from the needle going into the skin and isn't related to that topic. I have gotten poked with needles many times in my life and I have never had pain that intense from a needle entering the skin. It was like getting punched in the leg, but only the skin was reacting.

[Jack_M]

Make sure to switch needles so you use one to draw (I use 18G) and one to inject (I use 27G). Needles get dulled after you use them once. Sit somewhere where your leg is hanging so your foot isn't on the floor to avoid you tensing up the muscle which can add to pain. Choose where you're injecting and grab that chunk of muscle with your hand that isn't doing the injecting and grab it really tight, tighter the better. Then slowly push in the needle or use the bounce method. I find the more toward the middle (but still slightly to the side) of the front of your leg and almost half way down from hip to knee is the best place to avoid feeling it. It's easier to grab a chunk there too rather than way out to the side. If you look at pictures of the lateral thigh, it's massive. So stay within the boundaries and you'll be fine.

[overdrive]

You'll find that it doesn't matter what you do, you'll sometimes inject and have zero pain as the needle enters the skin and others it intense. I used to repoke myself over and over till I found a spot that was completely painless till finally I got tired of it. Just commit to it, grin and bear it so to speak and just push the needle in. Once you get past that layer of skin you'll find the pain doesn't persist unless of course you hit a nerve further in. Skin isn't completely even and the pain receptors in one spot of skin are different than in a spot even a quarter inch away, after all skin is the largest organ in the body and organs aren't completely uniform in really any regard.

[Magnus]

No matter what, your nerves on that side are damaged... neuropathy. They are most likely always going to lie about the pain intensity, essentially making a mountain out of mole hill.

Somewhat OT in a way, but I have neuropathy in my feet because up until a year and nearly four months ago now, my body was producing a damn near lethal amount of insulin (had a serious attempt on my life just before T and T actually having somehow stopped this problem) and that is what can actually cause nerve damage (it sets in long before frank diabetes). I can't enjoy a warm bath or shower anymore without them registering mere warm water as scalding and making me feel like I've just stuck them in boiling water. It's nasty but I just have to bite my tongue and get on with it until they "adjust". My point is, neuropothy will always cause an affected area to lie about pain intensity... such as an otherwise inconsequential needle prick, temperature etc.

So anyway, your best bet would be to simply not inject in that side anymore. As long as your muscle has one week (preferably longer) to recuperate in-between, it's fine. Just don't stick it in precisely the same spot... you should have a good 3-6" area to work with, plenty of room to alternate on the same muscle.

Or, you can always try a different method like T cream.

[lilacwoman]

I had to re-peierce one of my ears as the saleswgirl could barely overcome her transphobia to do a good job and she did one a lot lower than the other so by next day I was fed up of it and chilled my lobe with an icecube then stuck the needle straight through with no pain though I was surprised at how tough ear lobes are.

[overdrive]

No matter what, your nerves on that side are damaged... neuropathy. They are most likely always going to lie about the pain intensity, essentially making a mountain out of mole hill.

Saying that this person definitely his neuropathy because of pain when poking a needle through the skin is highly generalized and such diagnosis shouldn't be made. Saying they "may" have it and should check with their doctor would have been a better statement then go on to explain what neuropathy is. A definitive diagnosis of neuropathy can only be diagnosed by a doctor after performing certain tests such as an NCV (Nerve conduction velocity), biopsy of the nerve, etc. Without such tests its pure speculation. On a forum we can only give guidance and information and should refrain from attempting to diagnose people with absolute certainty like this.

Neuropathy can present as numbness, tingling, nerve pain, muscle problems, etc or any combination of these and other symptoms. I have neuropathy from mid chest down and familiar with it well (NCV test and biopsies aren't fun I must confess). The pain described here is normal pain due to skin receptors that anyone can get when poking the needle through, without having any form of neuropathy. After all you are puncturing an organ. Think of it this way... when you get a paper cut it seems to hurt more than if you cut your leg for example. Thats because there are more nociceptors in your hands than your legs per square inch. The leg is a much less nerve-dense area so the chances of hitting nociceptors are much lower, but when you hit them it will hurt much more than when you avoid them.

While this person may have other symptoms not mentioned here and may also have neuropathy, its inaccurate for you to say this is definitely what they have as what is described here is in no way an indication in and of itself.

[Magnus]

Saying that this person definitely his neuropathy because of pain when poking a needle through the skin is highly generalized and such diagnosis shouldn't be made. Saying they "may" have it and should check with their doctor would have been a better statement then go on to explain what neuropathy is. A definitive diagnosis of neuropathy can only be diagnosed by a doctor after performing certain tests such as an NCV (Nerve conduction velocity), biopsy of the nerve, etc. Without such tests its pure speculation. On a forum we can only give guidance and information and should refrain from attempting to diagnose people with absolute certainty like this.

Neuropathy can present as numbness, tingling, nerve pain, muscle problems, etc or any combination of these and other symptoms. I have neuropathy from mid chest down and familiar with it well (NCV test and biopsies aren't fun I must confess). The pain described here is normal pain due to skin receptors that anyone can get when poking the needle through, without having any form of neuropathy. After all you are puncturing an organ. Think of it this way... when you get a paper cut it seems to hurt more than if you cut your leg for example. Thats because there are more nociceptors in your hands than your legs per square inch. The leg is a much less nerve-dense area so the chances of hitting nociceptors are much lower, but when you hit them it will hurt much more than when you avoid them.

While this person may have other symptoms not mentioned here and may also have neuropathy, its inaccurate for you to say this is definitely what they have as what is described here is in no way an indication in and of itself.

You've clearly overlooked the pertinent information in your haste to 'correct' me. Here it is again:

I injected my T this morning and I had lots of pain within the skin. I've never injected into my right thigh before with an IM shot. I've had hip surgery which has altered the perception of feeling in the skin. I was wondering if any of you guys had any experience with issues like this.

Also

I have gotten poked with needles many times in my life and I have never had pain that intense from a needle entering the skin. It was like getting punched in the leg, but only the skin was reacting.

So no, what the OP has described does not fall within "normal pain due to skin receptors that anyone can get when poking the needle through" and yes, because of the OP's hip replacement surgery, he does indeed have a degree of nueopathy and which you also would have deduced correctly yourself if you'd paid attention to what he actually said and the manner in which it was said. If you still don't see it... he said it is only like this on the right side and only on the side of his hip replacement, whereas the opposite side does not result in this same degree of discomfort or pain as OP described else he wouldn't have felt the need to specify those details (see quote 2). Last I personally checked, my discomfort and pain is the same on either my right or my left, with or without hitting 'extra' nerves. Then again, I've never been cut into or had surgery anywhere on my legs or hips, etc.

And no, it doesn't take a fancy and expensive medical test nor four years of med school to figure this one out. Invasive surgery will more often than not result in some neuropathy owing to the fact that nerves are always severed, in the skin if nowhere else and once that happens they are no longer the same. This procedure in particular, however, is among the most radical and invasive there is and also requiring sizable, deep incisions. The more invasive and radical the procedure, the higher the incidence and also the determination of the degree of this complication will be. Those are all key details because the skin's nerves are all daisy-chained off of larger nerves that originate from the spinal column and if the affected nerve happens to be any one of those larger nerves branching out and which are responsible for relaying the sensory input for more of them outside of it's own localized area, then that will result in a larger affected area than just where it was locally severed. Which, I also have to point out, would be obviously what has happened to the OP and which is again a perfectly common result of surgery, particularity one of this magnitude. That is where and why only the skin in that particular area and only on that particular side is causing this more intense sensation. Therefore, it changed the sensory input exactly what the OP also stated as fact (see quote 1 again) and this therefore is neuropathy. So wherever you concocted this accusation of me "generalizing" I don't know, but its just not so. The plain fact of the matter is that this is inevitable with invasive surgery (and even up to and including injury, not caused by surgical procedure) that some nerves will simply not be what they used to be. This however is surgical neuropathy. I'm sorry I wasn't more clear and detailed in my earlier post as to avoid the confusion.

If we were discussing spontaneous "peripheral neuropathy" without clearly defined origins, we wouldn't in fact be discussing anything because I would never have brought it up. But otherwise, you would have been absolutely right in your rebuttal.



OP, I still recommend you simply avoid injecting in your right side.

[overdrive]

Its not an unreasonable request to ask that you not provide a medical diagnosis but instead only provide people with information so they can discuss with a medical professional since its against forum rules to do this and not all of what you are claiming is factual.

Having altered reception in the one leg is no reason in itself to avoid injecting into that side. I have neuropathy in both legs and was told this by my doctor. Maybe there is some other reason, I couldn't speculate but I wouldn't go so far as to say avoid it at all costs. I would say try it again and see or discuss with your doctor if you have a legit medical concern. And yes anyone can have the pain the OP explained without having neuropathy as I provided the reason why this commonly occurs in my last post. It is possible to have altered reception without neuropathy as well, though I'm not going into the reasons here because that's not what this thread is about.

For the record not all neuropathic tests are invasive or carry risks as mentioned. One way to diagnose can be as simple as a doctor to evaluate reflexes and monitor the strength if. The most common test of NCV carries little to no risk in the average people. Risks are generally associated with things such as medical implants including but not limited to pace makers.  Anyone thinking the may have neuropathy should also discuss with their doctor so they can be the one to suggest any necessary testing and provide a proper diagnosis.

I believe I've said my peace here, just wanted to clarify a diagnosis for any medical condition should never be made or accepted on a forum such as this. I won't be responding again to defend what I've written as there is no reason to hijack this thread with banter.

[Magnus]

Its not an unreasonable request to ask that you not provide a medical diagnosis but instead only provide people with information so they can discuss with a medical professional since its against forum rules to do this and not all of what you are claiming is factual.

Having altered reception in the one leg is no reason in itself to avoid injecting into that side. I have neuropathy in both legs and was told this by my doctor. Maybe there is some other reason, I couldn't speculate but I wouldn't go so far as to say avoid it at all costs. I would say try it again and see or discuss with your doctor if you have a legit medical concern. And yes anyone can have the pain the OP explained without having neuropathy as I provided the reason why this commonly occurs in my last post. It is possible to have altered reception without neuropathy as well, though I'm not going into the reasons here because that's not what this thread is about.

For the record not all neuropathic tests are invasive or carry risks as mentioned. One way to diagnose can be as simple as a doctor to evaluate reflexes and monitor the strength if. The most common test of NCV carries little to no risk in the average people. Risks are generally associated with things such as medical implants including but not limited to pace makers.  Anyone thinking the may have neuropathy should also discuss with their doctor so they can be the one to suggest any necessary testing and provide a proper diagnosis.

I believe I've said my peace here, just wanted to clarify a diagnosis for any medical condition should never be made or accepted on a forum such as this. I won't be responding again to defend what I've written as there is no reason to hijack this thread with banter.

If you don't want a debate, then perhaps you shouldn't start one.

You also clearly don't know the scope of the forum rules yourself because the only medical information we're disallowed talking about are HRT doses (#8). So here they are, for your refreshment: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html

By the way, you've made us both violate #15.

What I was explaining was hardly 'making a diagnosis'. If we were talking Parkinson's or some crap like that, I'd agree... but, no. Totally different situation that was being discussed and explained, before you tugged me into this very "banter".

I also, never once, said not to seek medical advice.

Now I also am done.


OP, I apologize. The last thing I wanted was an argument and I hope this hasn't put you off.